Colleges in Dire Financial Straits

[mahagonny]

Let's be fair, too, in acknowledging that, in the eyes of those on the outside looking in, the higher education sector as a whole has squandered a great deal of public good will over the years.  Many people feel that they or someone they know has been burned by an expensive post- K-12 institution that they feel promised more than it delivered.  That sort of thing leads to skepticism, which in turn makes people less generous toward what they feel skeptical of.

See, I don't really see how academia has squandered anyone's good will. 

Higher ed has undermined its own image of trustworthiness. While they cry about being underfunded, they answer the growth of low paid part time faculty temp positions with (1) these people don't have needs, they do it for fun, they have plenty of money already, or (2) when they don't have enough money already, they must be hapless losers who are beyond help, (3) anyway there only a few of them complaining, the rest are too afraid of losing their employment to organize. So the problem is pretty much solved if the press would only shut up about it.
...and by hiring managers and representatives, middle and upper, who trumpet these brazen, cynical messages.

[Wahoo Redux]

There's only so much money, and with more and more being shunted into health care, everything else (like Education) is being starved out.

We all say the same things.

But----again----here are the top five highest paid football coaches:

Dabo Swinney — $9,315,600
Nick Saban — $8,857,000.
Jim Harbaugh — $7,504,000.
Jimbo Fisher — $7,500,000.
Kirby Smart — $6,871,600.

Swinney's salary for 1 year could prop Wesley for, what, 2 or 3 years at least?

And yes, Swinney is at Clemson.  And no, I am not suggesting we kill the Clemson football program and give the money to Wesley or anything of the sort.

What I am suggesting is that if America had will to support our colleges we could. 

That's the conversation we need to be having with ourselves and the public. 

Instead we automatically hand over our lunch money.

[spork]

Edgewood College:

https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/education/university/edgewood-college-offers-enough-buyouts-to-avoid-laying-off-faculty/article_765bbcb9-374f-5f9d-a731-2baffb9904bd.html.

[polly_mer]

What I am suggesting is that if America had will to support our colleges we could. 

That's the conversation we need to be having with ourselves and the public. 

Instead we automatically hand over our lunch money.

Great.  So, are you going to get on board with the message that education matters and therefore we must use those education dollars in good ways or are you going to continue to advocate for propping up zombie institutions/programs/entities that aren't providing good educational experiences in any sense of the word?

We can make progress on fixing some parts of the very broken system with people who have bought into the idea that education is valuable as we talk about priorities to achieve education-focused goals.

We cannot win on a message along the lines of "this version of education is much more important than whatever you hold dear, so fork over your money, energy, and time for what you're told to want".

The good will being squandered is real.  A Gallup Survey in 2018 indicated that less than half of the American public had significant confidence in higher ed.  I can link any number of articles about the college completion gap that indicates about 10% of poor kids who enroll in college graduate compared to about half of rich kids and even the smart poor kids don't tend to graduate at the same rates as middling rich kids. 

Even when students graduate, "annual wages for the bottom 25th percentile of college graduates are less than the median wages earned by a typical worker with a high school diploma" 

But it turns out that the proportional increase for those who grew up poor is much less than for those who did not. College graduates from families with an income below 185 percent of the federal poverty level (the eligibility threshold for the federal assisted lunch program) earn 91 percent more over their careers than high school graduates from the same income group. By comparison, college graduates from families with incomes above 185 percent of the FPL earned 162 percent more over their careers (between the ages of 25 and 62) than those with just a high school diploma:

Ref: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2016/02/19/a-college-degree-is-worth-less-if-you-are-raised-poor/


I'm all for ensuring that small institutions remain part of the higher ed landscape.  However, if the goal is to have more people with as much education as they can hold and really mean education, not box checking exercises, then we have to close some institutions to redirect people and resources to support those people elsewhere.  When an institution has only a 50% first-to-second year retention rate for years, then that's people voting with their feet for something else.  I don't know to three decimal points what the retention rate ought to be, but I haven't encountered any places I respect with less than 75%. 

I also haven't encountered too many institutions doing a great job that have graduation rates as low as 30%.  There are some institutions by virtue of the students they serve, but then those institutions are usually upfront that they are doing a different type of education that isn't on a 4-year curriculum intended for full-time students.

[Wahoo Redux]

Great.  So, are you going to get on board with the message that education matters and therefore we must use those education dollars in good ways or are you going to continue to advocate for propping up zombie institutions/programs/entities that aren't providing good educational experiences in any sense of the word?

We cannot win on a message along the lines of "this version of education is much more important than whatever you hold dear, so fork over your money, energy, and time for what you're told to want".

Never said anything like that.  Yet more strawmaning.  And this is a typical oddball rant when rationality slips a bit because Polly is frustrated.

Polly, I suspect, has some sort of very personal issues with higher ed.  What I do not know.  Nor do I care.

Sure, I get Polly's POV.  Always have.  What bothers me about her commentary is that her first reaction is to swing the ax.  My impression is that Polly believes that what has happened in the past defines what will always happen, therefore we must accept the gloom and doom because it is impossible to fix what we have with our limited and precious resources which never, under any circumstances, will expand because the general public actually reviles us----and if you disagree she must insult you. Oh, and education is about getting jobs. 

What I have been saying is pretty clear and not very complex.

And I disagree.  Some people want job training in college.  But there is a contingent that does care.  And even the job-seekers actually care.  We need to mobilize them.

I really liked apl68's commentary from December 17th: "to impress the average person whose whole life hasn't been dedicated to higher education." We all know, or should know, that we need to bridge the perception gap with the public.

Higher ed's advocates need to find ways to stretch their understanding of those who aren't in higher education and need convincing.... A case that people outside of higher ed--people that those on the inside may not understand and may even at times hold in disdain--can see has to be built.

Many people care deeply about things that do not directly affect them.  I will use myself: I am very concerned about prosecutorial discretion & overcharging (never been arrested & haven't even had a speeding ticket since I was 16); K-12 Education (no kids myself); universal health care (I already have employer-proved health care and in fact have never been without insurance); immigrant status (born an American) etc. etc.  I suspect we are all in this boat.

We need to make the case to the public that we constitute a public good.  So many of us simply seem to have given up, however.  Maybe it's not worth the effort.

[mahagonny]

We need to make the case to the public that we constitute a public good.  So many of us simply seem to have given up, however.  Maybe it's not worth the effort.

The public -- does that mean members of political parties? What I hear from most academics is we've got to convince people on the right that they're wrong about almost everything. What would be a way to avoid doing that, or is it just a presence of horrible ideas on the right that have to be fought and defeated? Cajoling and listening might work better than fencing.
Or co-opting. Presently the right wingers are hearing from a few conservative academics about their sense of being the tiny majority. Which is the situation almost all academics seem to want.

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/essay/the-growing-partisan-divide-in-views-of-higher-education/

This is the kind of advocacy that higher education needs.  Higher ed's advocates need to find ways to stretch their understanding of those who aren't in higher education and need convincing.  I think that's what polly has been trying to do.  Certain elements of her presentation--her massive wall-of-text posts, her expressed biases, her endless use of phrases like "checking boxes," etc. may seem off-putting.  But her basic message is worth paying attention to.  Higher ed's advocates can't just take it as axiomatic that higher ed can always use more money.  A case that people outside of higher ed--people that those on the inside may not understand and may even at times hold in disdain--can see has to be built.

Disagree. I hear the message as "college faculty have made poor life choices and then get together in unions to persuade people to feel sorry for them" which shouldn't inspire any respect for anyone in the academy. And that message is old, so the current mess has to be partly a consequence of it.

[Wahoo Redux]

The public -- does that mean members of political parties? What I hear from most academics is we've got to convince people on the right that they're wrong about almost everything. What would be a way to avoid doing that, or is it just a presence of horrible ideas on the right that have to be fought and defeated?

I think the public is...the public. 

Personally I wouldn't try to browbeat anyone on political issues; rather, I would try to make the case that education is a public good that benefits us all.  I believe there was a time within living memory when this was the case.  Certain republican politicians will require convincing, and some will never be convinced, but that is where the public comes in.  Lead and the politicians will follow.

Some people see higher ed as a weapon of mass destruction in the Culture Wars.  To wit:

Presently the right wingers are hearing from a few conservative academics about their sense of being the tiny majority. Which is the situation almost all academics seem to want.

I tend to think that the political dichotomy is a matter of self selection, just as the military and law enforcement are largely conservative.  And I think a great many older conservatives will forever associate higher ed with teen rebellion and cultural turmoil from the 60s through the 80s.  These people are lost to us.  But we don't need every last spanking person in the United States either.

It doesn't help when college students attempt to scream down conservative authors who are invited to campus, or assault Campus Reform volunteers, or demand that regents who march in conservative pride parades be removed from office, or automatically declare any law-enforcement attempt involving minorities to be racism...but how would we police such events and ideas?  This may be something that time will just have to manage.

Of course, we know that antagonism toward higher ed is largely republican driven.  The line that we "indoctrinate" malleable young neophytes is actually fairly new as is the acute right-wing antagonism toward college.  I think higher ed needs to work to refute these views.  There is scant evidence that anyone indoctrinates anyone in college. I find actual numbers on how many college students are democrats and how many are republican hard to find, but I suspect (if my alma mater is any indication) that colleges reflect the general public in demographics.  For instance:

36 percent self-identify as liberal or leaning liberal, 31 percent moderate, and 33 percent conservative or leaning conservative

I think we need to make more of these sorts of numbers.  Again, I would keep our personal feelings about impeachment out of the picture and focus on what we bring to society.  I think this is where our college presidents and PR offices come in.

I hear the message as "college faculty have made poor life choices and then get together in unions to persuade people to feel sorry for them" which shouldn't inspire any respect for anyone in the academy. And that message is old, so the current mess has to be partly a consequence of it.

Only certain posters say these sorts of things.

[Hegemony]

If only I were able to indoctrinate my students in anything at all!  I can't even indoctrinate them in the use of commas. 

[Wahoo Redux]

If only I were able to indoctrinate my students in anything at all!  I can't even indoctrinate them in the use of commas.

Begin with the semicolon.  Socialist globalism is only a step away.

[mahagonny]

I hear the message as "college faculty have made poor life choices and then get together in unions to persuade people to feel sorry for them" which shouldn't inspire any respect for anyone in the academy. And that message is old, so the current mess has to be partly a consequence of it.

Only certain posters say these sorts of things.

Right, but the second class academic worker is still understood to be a solution, so the dislike speech gets condoned. Not to say so much cheered with high fives, as it was on the old forum.

If only I were able to indoctrinate my students in anything at all!  I can't even indoctrinate them in the use of commas. 

Well, who gets to be a victim or savior with bad punctuation? It's more morally rejuvenating and dramatic to go to bat for the little guy.

It doesn't have to be a matter of any one deciding to indoctrinate. It's the vast majority being far-to-the-left creating an atmosphere in which the views they don't share become 'those other views.'

[Hegemony]

But where do those alleged far-to-the-left views come from?  My own field is not very adjacent to politics, and I am sure my students have no idea what my political views are; nor do I want them to. I understand that some fields like sociology and economics have professors whose views are made very clear in class, but still that's a very small percentage of the people a college student comes across in college. So where does this great crowd of lefties come from?  The other students?  If they are already lefties, then it can't be said that the college experience is influencing them.  If they're not already lefties, then is the great crowd that is so influential? 

My own experience is that it's all sort of in the zeitgeist and in the air, especially the air of young energetic folks who spend a lot of time on social media.  Like, a while ago vegans were considered sort of marginal, unusual oddballs; but I found out the other week when someone brought food into a class that at least one-third of the class are currently vegan.  Where did that come from?  Not from any course indoctrination, I'd wager.  Just from social trends. And the more that students explore the world, the more they're exposed to the social trends, and there they go.  If only semi-colons were a social trend.

[dr_codex]

But where do those alleged far-to-the-left views come from?  My own field is not very adjacent to politics, and I am sure my students have no idea what my political views are; nor do I want them to. I understand that some fields like sociology and economics have professors whose views are made very clear in class, but still that's a very small percentage of the people a college student comes across in college. So where does this great crowd of lefties come from?  The other students?  If they are already lefties, then it can't be said that the college experience is influencing them.  If they're not already lefties, then is the great crowd that is so influential? 

My own experience is that it's all sort of in the zeitgeist and in the air, especially the air of young energetic folks who spend a lot of time on social media.  Like, a while ago vegans were considered sort of marginal, unusual oddballs; but I found out the other week when someone brought food into a class that at least one-third of the class are currently vegan.  Where did that come from?  Not from any course indoctrination, I'd wager.  Just from social trends. And the more that students explore the world, the more they're exposed to the social trends, and there they go.  If only semi-colons were a social trend.

;)

[mahagonny]

But where do those alleged far-to-the-left views come from?  My own field is not very adjacent to politics, and I am sure my students have no idea what my political views are; nor do I want them to. I understand that some fields like sociology and economics have professors whose views are made very clear in class, but still that's a very small percentage of the people a college student comes across in college. So where does this great crowd of lefties come from?  The other students?  If they are already lefties, then it can't be said that the college experience is influencing them.  If they're not already lefties, then is the great crowd that is so influential? 

My own experience is that it's all sort of in the zeitgeist and in the air, especially the air of young energetic folks who spend a lot of time on social media.  Like, a while ago vegans were considered sort of marginal, unusual oddballs; but I found out the other week when someone brought food into a class that at least one-third of the class are currently vegan.  Where did that come from?  Not from any course indoctrination, I'd wager.  Just from social trends. And the more that students explore the world, the more they're exposed to the social trends, and there they go.  If only semi-colons were a social trend.

If you think of it, remind these young progressives to vote. Not that I want them in charge necessarily, but the Trump era is giving me nightmares, and they might be enough to tip the scales.

[apl68]

If only I were able to indoctrinate my students in anything at all!  I can't even indoctrinate them in the use of commas.

Begin with the semicolon.  Socialist globalism is only a step away.

Shouldn't that be:

"Begin with the semicolon; socialist globalism is only a step away"?  We have to model what we want our students to do!

[Wahoo Redux]

If only I were able to indoctrinate my students in anything at all!  I can't even indoctrinate them in the use of commas.

Begin with the semicolon.  Socialist globalism is only a step away.

Shouldn't that be:

"Begin with the semicolon; socialist globalism is only a step away"?  We have to model what we want our students to do!

Are you trying to indoctrinate me with progressive elitist syntax?!