Colleges in Dire Financial Straits

[mahagonny]

that's putting it mildly. It looks like one little step away from being a cult. Students requiring white people to stay home on their special day.

If it was one peculiar idea that everyone subscribed to, then the cult description would be apt. But my sense is that there is room for lots of peculiar ideas. Evergreen is where the proposals can be more peculiar, but the pushback should also more diverse than on most campuses.

What happens when the pushback descends into pushing, shoving, suspicion, name calling, battle lines being drawn (such as 'Professor Present-While-White-Must-Be-Fired' graffiti) and more, is what I wonder.
Perhaps this needs its own thread, where we can all go and get unravelled.

I consider that a teachable moment. Ask the students whether they actually produced the change they were hoping for, or made themselves feel better but alienated potential allies.

I was a kid during the free-speech movement at Berkeley and the anti-war (et al) protests that closed Stanford. In both cases, some of the protesters ended up learning how to get things done and accomplished a lot of good things in their lives. It was a very tense time--more so than the Evergreen situation. Where it was used as a teachable moment, some good things came out it it. When the administration decided to bash heads in, nothing good came of it.

Normally I would like your response, but here I need to respond this way:
So I am left to assume that while Professor Weinstein spoke out against the nutty things these students were doing in a respectful, reasoned way, and refused to be banned from doing his job on 'Day of Absence' and then took the abuse for it, including having to hide out for his safety, other white profs, including probably all those without tenure, stayed off campus? These students need to be taught not different ways to get what they want, but that what they want is mean and misguided.

[marshwiggle]

I consider that a teachable moment. Ask the students whether they actually produced the change they were hoping for, or made themselves feel better but alienated potential allies.

I was a kid during the free-speech movement at Berkeley and the anti-war (et al) protests that closed Stanford. In both cases, some of the protesters ended up learning how to get things done and accomplished a lot of good things in their lives. It was a very tense time--more so than the Evergreen situation. Where it was used as a teachable moment, some good things came out it it. When the administration decided to bash heads in, nothing good came of it.

Normally I would like your response, but here I need to respond this way:
So I am left to assume that while Professor Weinstein spoke out against the nutty things these students were doing in a respectful, reasoned way, and refused to be banned from doing his job on 'Day of Absence' and then took the abuse for it, including having to hide out for his safety, other white profs, including probably all those without tenure, stayed off campus? These students need to be taught not different ways to get what they want, but that what they want is mean and misguided.

I think you miss Hibush's point, which was that "teachable moment" referred to the effectiveness of the protesters' tactics-not to any possible flaw in their moral reasoning. The idea that Professor Weinstein might have actually had any valid point to make, (especially given that he's a cis-het white male) ? That's crazy talk.

[Hibush]

I consider that a teachable moment. Ask the students whether they actually produced the change they were hoping for, or made themselves feel better but alienated potential allies.

I was a kid during the free-speech movement at Berkeley and the anti-war (et al) protests that closed Stanford. In both cases, some of the protesters ended up learning how to get things done and accomplished a lot of good things in their lives. It was a very tense time--more so than the Evergreen situation. Where it was used as a teachable moment, some good things came out it it. When the administration decided to bash heads in, nothing good came of it.

Normally I would like your response, but here I need to respond this way:
So I am left to assume that while Professor Weinstein spoke out against the nutty things these students were doing in a respectful, reasoned way, and refused to be banned from doing his job on 'Day of Absence' and then took the abuse for it, including having to hide out for his safety, other white profs, including probably all those without tenure, stayed off campus? These students need to be taught not different ways to get what they want, but that what they want is mean and misguided.

I think you miss Hibush's point, which was that "teachable moment" referred to the effectiveness of the protesters' tactics-not to any possible flaw in their moral reasoning. The idea that Professor Weinstein might have actually had any valid point to make, (especially given that he's a cis-het white male) ? That's crazy talk.

I agree with Mahoggany that the Evergreen students were both mean and misguided. You can't exactly tell them that, but you can guide them to figuring that out for themselves. They are after all committed to justice, so presumably there is some underlying desire to be just. That common goal creates a lot of oppportunity.

The potential lesson for the students is that while they may perceive a tactical success, their approach has backfired so much that they are at risk of losing an institution that welcomes them. The challenge for faculty at a place like Evergreen is not to take it personally, and to persist in helping the students learn.

At Berkeley and Stanford, the students were right, and they learned from the actions that backfired.

[mahagonny]

I consider that a teachable moment. Ask the students whether they actually produced the change they were hoping for, or made themselves feel better but alienated potential allies.

I was a kid during the free-speech movement at Berkeley and the anti-war (et al) protests that closed Stanford. In both cases, some of the protesters ended up learning how to get things done and accomplished a lot of good things in their lives. It was a very tense time--more so than the Evergreen situation. Where it was used as a teachable moment, some good things came out it it. When the administration decided to bash heads in, nothing good came of it.

Normally I would like your response, but here I need to respond this way:
So I am left to assume that while Professor Weinstein spoke out against the nutty things these students were doing in a respectful, reasoned way, and refused to be banned from doing his job on 'Day of Absence' and then took the abuse for it, including having to hide out for his safety, other white profs, including probably all those without tenure, stayed off campus? These students need to be taught not different ways to get what they want, but that what they want is mean and misguided.

I think you miss Hibush's point, which was that "teachable moment" referred to the effectiveness of the protesters' tactics-not to any possible flaw in their moral reasoning. The idea that Professor Weinstein might have actually had any valid point to make, (especially given that he's a cis-het white male) ? That's crazy talk.

I agree with Mahoggany that the Evergreen students were both mean and misguided. You can't exactly tell them that, but you can guide them to figuring that out for themselves. They are after all committed to justice, so presumably there is some underlying desire to be just. That common goal creates a lot of oppportunity.

The potential lesson for the students is that while they may perceive a tactical success, their approach has backfired so much that they are at risk of losing an institution that welcomes them. The challenge for faculty at a place like Evergreen is not to take it personally, and to persist in helping the students learn.

At Berkeley and Stanford, the students were right, and they learned from the actions that backfired.

I appreciate that we can agree on that. I do get tired of the mob of students who've become bigot-hunting vigilantes and I think their out-of-control attributions of racism are a product of something else and not just the carelessness typical of youth. Influence from older folks who should know better.

[selecter]

I'm grateful for Polly's (and Wahoo's) meta-commentary on conditions. I hope they won't create another thread. Occasionally this thread "sticks to the subject" of just naming the names of Colleges in Dire Financial Straits, and that's damn near useless. I watched with dread for years, and then my college appeared, was mentioned a VERY small handful of time, and then vanished ... from the thread and the world. I was out of work, and scrambling to find teach outs for students. Throughout, Polly's comments were of value, as they indicated problems and suggested solutions, too. I was lucky enough to find similar work, at a somewhat similar school, and I find myself returning for guidance and support. But the support group nature of this thread pales when compared to the diagnostic.

[marshwiggle]

I appreciate that we can agree on that. I do get tired of the mob of students who've become bigot-hunting vigilantes and I think their out-of-control attributions of racism are a product of something else and not just the carelessness typical of youth. Influence from older folks who should know better.

I think you're right about that. For instance:

At Berkeley and Stanford, the students were right, and they learned from the actions that backfired.

Any time "older folks who should know better" paint complex issues into completely black and white scenarios, they encourage that kind of dogmatic, authoritarian bigotry.  Realizing that "maybe I don't know everything about this issue" is a vital part of becoming a mature adult. (Sadly, many chronological "adults" fail to ever learn this.)

[Wahoo Redux]

Any time "older folks who should know better" paint complex issues into completely black and white scenarios, they encourage that kind of dogmatic, authoritarian bigotry.  Realizing that "maybe I don't know everything about this issue" is a vital part of becoming a mature adult. (Sadly, many chronological "adults" fail to ever learn this.)

Um...Pot?  Kettle?

[spork]

Iowa Wesleyan University interim president feels "fairly confident that we have what we need to operate into next year":

https://www.thegazette.com/subject/news/education/iowa-wesleyan-looks-again-for-a-new-future-as-the-struggling-university-and-a-potential-rescuer-cut-ties-20200110.

[mamselle]

I'm grateful for Polly's (and Wahoo's) meta-commentary on conditions. I hope they won't create another thread. Occasionally this thread "sticks to the subject" of just naming the names of Colleges in Dire Financial Straits, and that's damn near useless. I watched with dread for years, and then my college appeared, was mentioned a VERY small handful of time, and then vanished ... from the thread and the world. I was out of work, and scrambling to find teach outs for students. Throughout, Polly's comments were of value, as they indicated problems and suggested solutions, too. I was lucky enough to find similar work, at a somewhat similar school, and I find myself returning for guidance and support. But the support group nature of this thread pales when compared to the diagnostic.

Interesting.

Do you mean you'd only read one thread on the Forum to find out what you wanted to know?

I can see the value in the analytical side of the issue, of course.

But for other readers, this may be the thread they come to for the "warning" notices on a school they're considering and they might not want to wade through the "kiff-kiff demain" (same-old, same-old) meta-narrative (found on several threads throughout this forum) that sidetracks that.

I don't actually have a direct interest except that I may look at it to see what schools near me are failing and where I might not want to apply to teach....or to add info if I happen to know anything about one that's named.

I made the suggestion because I thought it might be of use to have one thread that looks at things in the deeper sense and seeks out causality and consequences (intended or un-), like, "Dire Straits Navigated," or something, and keep this one for the more reportorial updates, which I miss.   

But threads also just do what they do....

;--}

M.

[tuxthepenguin]

I don't actually have a direct interest except that I may look at it to see what schools near me are failing and where I might not want to apply to teach....or to add info if I happen to know anything about one that's named.

I made the suggestion because I thought it might be of use to have one thread that looks at things in the deeper sense and seeks out causality and consequences (intended or un-), like, "Dire Straits Navigated," or something, and keep this one for the more reportorial updates, which I miss.   

Well, I do have a direct interest, because I want to warn my students if they're interviewing with any of these schools. I would prefer having just a boring thread with links to articles about failing colleges. Other discussions would benefit from having their own threads.

[Anselm]

Iowa Wesleyan University interim president feels "fairly confident that we have what we need to operate into next year":

https://www.thegazette.com/subject/news/education/iowa-wesleyan-looks-again-for-a-new-future-as-the-struggling-university-and-a-potential-rescuer-cut-ties-20200110.

...has been gearing recruitment efforts toward Iowans, launching a new agribusiness program and adding men's and women's wrestling.

Watching this school over the years, I was under the impression that having a big sports program with a small student body is what ruined them financially.

[spork]

Iowa Wesleyan University interim president feels "fairly confident that we have what we need to operate into next year":

https://www.thegazette.com/subject/news/education/iowa-wesleyan-looks-again-for-a-new-future-as-the-struggling-university-and-a-potential-rescuer-cut-ties-20200110.

...has been gearing recruitment efforts toward Iowans, launching a new agribusiness program and adding men's and women's wrestling.

Watching this school over the years, I was under the impression that having a big sports program with a small student body is what ruined them financially.

It's been teetering on the brink for a few years now.

I thought the interim president's name rang a bell, and sure enough, she presided over a doomed college once before.

Here's the quality leadership she's demonstrated previously: https://vtdigger.org/2014/08/29/story-video-burlington-college-president-christine-plunkett-tells-students-resign/.

Why is the USDA acting like the IMF?

[secundem_artem]

Iowa Wesleyan University interim president feels "fairly confident that we have what we need to operate into next year":

https://www.thegazette.com/subject/news/education/iowa-wesleyan-looks-again-for-a-new-future-as-the-struggling-university-and-a-potential-rescuer-cut-ties-20200110.

...has been gearing recruitment efforts toward Iowans, launching a new agribusiness program and adding men's and women's wrestling.

Watching this school over the years, I was under the impression that having a big sports program with a small student body is what ruined them financially.

It's been teetering on the brink for a few years now.

I thought the interim president's name rang a bell, and sure enough, she presided over a doomed college once before.

Here's the quality leadership she's demonstrated previously: https://vtdigger.org/2014/08/29/story-video-burlington-college-president-christine-plunkett-tells-students-resign/.

Why is the USDA acting like the IMF?

Unless the lads will be wrestling the ladies, or the plan is for all girl oil wrestling, I don't see adding a new sport as garnering much attention.  U of Iowa is big in wrestling circles, so Wesleyan's new wrestlers are likely to be also rans who were not competitive at bigger schools.  As to agribusiness, Iowa State has a world class program and in-state tuition.  What's Wesleyan's value added that would attract new students?

As to the new president, it's just another example of something I have always thought -- once you get high enough up the food chain, you can never actually fail.  You can screw up at one college, but somebody else will always take you on.  Not get tenure -- too bad, go find a job in private industry.  Fail as an executive -- some headhunter will still take your calls.

[selecter]

"Do you mean you'd only read one thread on the Forum to find out what you wanted to know?

I can see the value in the analytical side of the issue, of course."


Pretty much. I've read this thread faithfully for ten years, and the "the list" will never be as effective as some of Polly's heuristics for making your own list. And the debates (which somehow I don't all that repetitive) inform a lot of my work at at New U, which is very much on the list.

[spork]

What's the deal with Cottey College? Whenever contributions fall below gross tuition its net revenue goes negative, and it's got a discount rate of ~ 50%. Undergraduate FTE fell from 345 in 2009 to 266 in 2018. How long can it operate off a $110 million endowment and donations without students?