The Fora: A Higher Education Community

Quote from: Wahoo Redux on May 03, 2024, 08:57:21 PMAnd for the record, I think one can be anti-occupation and anti-occupied Palestine without being antisemitic.  Israel has things to answer for and America should stop supporting her until she becomes a humane state.  Oh, and Hamas is a terrorist organization.

However, we have been marching, screaming, occupying, and fighting police for close to a hundred years if you count the Bonus Army of 1932.  MLK prevailed because of his maturity in the face of oppression.  Now we have kids occupying their very vulnerable college campuses, resisting when given lawful commands by the police, and then crying to the media when they are arrested.  And many people have a specific kneejerk reaction, "The students were peaceful," as if that gives them the right to break the law.

We need a new cultural imagination to meet our challenges.  I don't think the old system is working any more.

Well said. What I think many young people don't get is that MLK modelled his actions on Gandhi, and both of them saw that their protests were only a pointer to the social change that would inevitably happen in a basically moral society. No protest had to achieve specific, short term results. The impatience of protests now requires that they have concrete, immediate outcomes, so the disruption has to escalate until they win.

"Getting out the message" has been replaced by "getting in peoples' faces until they cave."

The 13-year cicada emergence is upon us!  The 17-year cicadas mostly live farther north, so we don't face the rare double-emergence that has been in the media so much. 

The constant drone keeps vaguely reminding me of science fiction I saw on TV growing up.  Somebody must have used recordings of cicadas as a stock otherworldly sound effect.

Quote from: financeguy on May 03, 2024, 09:43:00 AMI don't have a specific text but I'd try to find some way to ensure those completing the course are aware of the effect Islamic Finance and the unique features of the regional economy may have on trade in general. Many people focus on the religious, geographic and other factors of the region in an intro or survey course while placing little emphasis on the vast economic differences that are in some ways as consequential.   

I leave finance to the people in the business department, where MBAs teach intro econ. Don't want to deprive students of the opportunity to create PowerPoint presentations.

Quote from: Parasaurolophus on May 03, 2024, 05:48:38 PMFor my part, I would be curious to know how many especially among those most vocally dismissive or sneering of these protests--have ever participated in a protest of heir own. Because I see a lot of tarring with broad brushes going on.

Dude, I grew up on the west coast in the '80s. 

I observed my fair share of protests and participated in several.  That's part of the reason I think this style of protest has turned sour.

Nevertheless, I marched against the first Gulf War because at the time it seemed like a very scary prospect.  It did not (yet) lead to World War III, but I think we've seen a whole series of atrocities on all sides in part because of it (no facile answers to what we should have done exist, BTW).

So yeah, I've seen protests. 

And for the record, I think one can be anti-occupation and anti-occupied Palestine without being antisemitic.  Israel has things to answer for and America should stop supporting her until she becomes a humane state.  Oh, and Hamas is a terrorist organization.

However, we have been marching, screaming, occupying, and fighting police for close to a hundred years if you count the Bonus Army of 1932.  MLK prevailed because of his maturity in the face of oppression.  Now we have kids occupying their very vulnerable college campuses, resisting when given lawful commands by the police, and then crying to the media when they are arrested.  And many people have a specific kneejerk reaction, "The students were peaceful," as if that gives them the right to break the law.

We need a new cultural imagination to meet our challenges.  I don't think the old system is working any more.

Quote from: Wahoo Redux on May 03, 2024, 04:53:08 PM

Quote from: Parasaurolophus on May 03, 2024, 03:19:02 PMIt may be worth reminding people that even the Civil Rights protests, protests which we widely acknowledge as good and non-violent, and models of good protests, were very unpopular. In 1961, only 27% of people thought sit-ins, freedom buses, etc. helped the Civil Rights cause. in 1968, fully 75% of whites disapproved of Martin Luther King, Jr.

Protests are disruptive, and that doesn't win them many friends. But that doesn't make them wrong, or less important.

I have a hard time seeing these kids in the same league as the freedom fighters. They are not analogous to people who selflessly give their lives to others, and I have a hard time believing they are going to actually accomplish anything except, perhaps, lose Biden some votes.  Remember that the J6 crowd likes this analogy too and loves to see hypocrisy in people's support for wealthy students camping in a public space.

Our culture has got to learn to think past World War II and the '70s-style protest.  I don't think it works anymore.  And I am anti-Hamas but pro-Palestinian-independence.       

The point isn't that they're in the same league. It's that even the "model" protests of the past were widely despised. So we need to rethink the way we relate to them in these discussions.

For my part, I would be curious to know how many especially among those most vocally dismissive or sneering of these protests--have ever participated in a protest of heir own. Because I see a lot of tarring with broad brushes going on.

Middle States Commission on Higher Education gave Keystone College a show cause order with a deadline of August 1. This is in addition to the demand that Keystone submit a teach-out plan by May 15. 

Quote from: darkstarrynight on May 03, 2024, 10:48:22 AMAs someone who used to work in an academic integrity office at my previous institution, I can share on this. That institution had the policy that students could submit work to two courses if they had the permission of both instructors. While it could happen in the same semester, there were situations in which students had a paper from a previous semester that would fit an assignment in the current semester, so they would still be required to contact the previous class's instructor for permission as well as the current instructor's. I do not suggest this is a perfect solution, but it does remove concerns that arise from something like TurnItIn if the current instructor is unaware of the previous course's assignment.

What possible objection could a former instructor have? If a student wrote an essay or short story for a course, should they have to get the prof's permission if later in life they want to publish it???? Does it cease to be the student's own intellectual property once its been submitted for a course???

Quote from: jimbogumbo on May 03, 2024, 01:50:13 PM

Quote from: marshwiggle on May 03, 2024, 06:38:24 AMI would imagine at any sort of protest, from any part of the political spectrum, many (if not most) of the most violent agitators have little or no connection to the cause, but just want to steal and destroy.

What you describe above is clearly wrong, but just as clearly unlike what is actually happening in these protests.


https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/05/03/college-campus-protests-israel-gaza-student-journalists-00155672

QuoteWith so many incidents taking place in so many places, it's hard for anyone to grasp what's really happening at America's universities right now. So POLITICO Magazine reached out this week to top student journalists, who have been reporting on the turmoil at the ground level for weeks and months. As neutral observers able to interact with all sides, they can provide unique insights, even as they watch friends get arrested or worry if their graduation ceremonies will even take place.

About as neutral as Fox news on the Jan. 6 riots.

Quote from: secundem_artem on May 03, 2024, 12:35:57 PMUpdate.

All the tall foreheads and deep thinkers on the board punted.  No decision made.

Everybody knows something or somebody is gonna get cut. But nobody has the balls to wield the knife.

SO NOW FVCK1N6 WHAT!!!!???!!!

Yeah, we've been living with this for the past 3 years.  That, and an admin which has no transparency.  Most of what we know comes from either the union strongarming an answer or a loose lip somewhere.

Quote from: Parasaurolophus on May 03, 2024, 03:19:02 PMIt may be worth reminding people that even the Civil Rights protests, protests which we widely acknowledge as good and non-violent, and models of good protests, were very unpopular. In 1961, only 27% of people thought sit-ins, freedom buses, etc. helped the Civil Rights cause. in 1968, fully 75% of whites disapproved of Martin Luther King, Jr.

Protests are disruptive, and that doesn't win them many friends. But that doesn't make them wrong, or less important.

I have a hard time seeing these kids in the same league as the freedom fighters. They are not analogous to people who selflessly give their lives to others, and I have a hard time believing they are going to actually accomplish anything except, perhaps, lose Biden some votes.  Remember that the J6 crowd likes this analogy too and loves to see hypocrisy in people's support for wealthy students camping in a public space.

Our culture has got to learn to think past World War II and the '70s-style protest.  I don't think it works anymore.  And I am anti-Hamas but pro-Palestinian-independence.