Hello,
I'm teaching in a prison for a college.
It's a relatively pleasant experience.
One needs very strong boundaries as inmate students push trying to get favors,etc. They lean on outsiders to bring contraband.
I was told they do teacher evals.
A room full of people who committed unspeakable crimes making anonymous comments that will stay in your file permanently.
Do you find this inappropriate?
Please let me know if I'm being too sensitive.
Thanks
Quote from: hester on March 10, 2024, 06:26:48 AMHello,
I'm teaching in a prison for a college.
It's a relatively pleasant experience.
One needs very strong boundaries as inmate students push trying to get favors,etc. They lean on outsiders to bring contraband.
I was told they do teacher evals.
A room full of people who committed unspeakable crimes making anonymous comments that will stay in your file permanently.
Do you find this inappropriate?
Please let me know if I'm being too sensitive.
Thanks
I taught resume writing in a local federal prison and really enjoyed the experience. I hope I helped my students as well. They had a long road ahead of them.
Main thing is to keep boundaries. Behave professionally and respectfully. Your job is to teach them whatever your subject is. And make sure the students see you friendly with the guards, wardens, etc so they know you are probably not worth messing with.
They don't start trying to use you for favors/contraband right away. They test you a little bit to see if you are open to little things, then work their way up.
They want to be treated like people, not like numbers or their histories. Many are in there for non-violent crimes thanks to the War on Drugs or Three Strikes. They want to be heard and seen.
You can run any concerns you have by the warden or your supervisor if anything happens that makes you uncomfortable.
Best of luck and thank you for serving people who really need it.
Why would it be inappropriate? They're just reporting what the learning experience was like for them, like any other students. The feedback is liable to be more useful, since it will pertain to a highly specialized learning environment. But if it's not, it's no worse than the usual student feedback. Just ignore it and pass it along to whichever higher-up wants it.
Yes, I find it inappropriate, but it's nothing new.
QuoteHello,
I'm teaching in a prison an overpriced sLAC.
It's a relatively pleasant experience.
One needs very strong boundaries as inmate entitled rich students push trying to get favors,etc. They lean on outsiders to bring contraband faculty for excessive extensions, excessive absences, multiple attempts at assessments, dropping assessments, easy As, therapy, & cheering them on at their boring lacrosse & crew tournaments.
I was told they do teacher evals.
A room full of people entitled spoiled rich kids with wealthy donor parents committed unspeakable crimes who think faculty are their servants, making anonymous comments that will stay in your file permanently.
Do you find this inappropriate?
Please let me know if I'm being too sensitive.
Thanks
But if John Q. Scumbag was unsuccessful in getting the teacher to smuggle in dope for him, Scumbag gets to torch teacher's career? Back to solitary for him.
I get that not all the cons are scumbags, and some, maybe even many, do not deserve their current involuntary accomodations in the greybar hotel, but teacher should not have to risk this. And, of course, well, privilege to attend prison college class should more or less be on a one strike, you're out basis, with said privs suspended for at least a semester for first offenders.
Quote from: kaysixteen on March 10, 2024, 05:47:38 PMBut if John Q. Scumbag was unsuccessful in getting the teacher to smuggle in dope for him, Scumbag gets to torch teacher's career? Back to solitary for him.
I get that not all the cons are scumbags, and some, maybe even many, do not deserve their current involuntary accomodations in the greybar hotel, but teacher should not have to risk this. And, of course, well, privilege to attend prison college class should more or less be on a one strike, you're out basis, with said privs suspended for at least a semester for first offenders.
JQS isn't that stupid. JQS is careful to figure out who he can trust to say "yes" before he asks a favor.
JQS's best bet is to fly below the radar and keep everyone happy with him. The rando professor coming in for a few hours each week isn't worth the trouble.
Quote from: kaysixteen on March 10, 2024, 05:47:38 PMBut if John Q. Scumbag was unsuccessful in getting the teacher to smuggle in dope for him, Scumbag gets to torch teacher's career? Back to solitary for him.
I get that not all the cons are scumbags, and some, maybe even many, do not deserve their current involuntary accomodations in the greybar hotel, but teacher should not have to risk this. And, of course, well, privilege to attend prison college class should more or less be on a one strike, you're out basis, with said privs suspended for at least a semester for first offenders.
It's a teaching evaluation, not a reference letter.
I salute you for undertaking this very challenging assignment.
I am very empathetic and also very unsympathetic to people who break the law because of situations in my own family.
Many JQSs are the products of their families or their communities; many are addicts----if they are in prison college they are probably rehabbing or trying to, I would guess; and many have personality disorders and psychological conditions they were born with.
So, you can reasonably be wary of your students (which you are obviously wise to), even dislike them, because of what they did, but I wonder if this is the proper attitude / way to think about about people you are trying to teach...
QuoteA room full of people who committed unspeakable crimes
If it is, maybe ask for another assignment.
I admit I was surprised to hear the suggestion that con students might attempt to get the prof to smuggle for them, and wonder if this is at all common?
I get that these evals are just that, evals, akin to what regular campus undergrads get to write at most American unis, so this perhaps begs the question as to exactly what are the usual career implications of such teaching evals, and would those admins, etc., evaluating the evals even know that any given one was written by a con?
I am all for cons getting the chance to better themselves by taking such classes, which is why, of course, those cons who are not, or at least are not *now* prepared to act appropriately in class, but might be a negative influence, should be removed from such classes. I say essentially the same for any undergrads at any college, but the particular environment of prison makes this even more essential.
In any case, it is not realistic to expect John Q. Adjunct , or even John X. Tenuredupbigshot, to look out on a room full of killers and child molesters without at least some ambivalence.
Most of the crimes are not unspeakable. But in any case, even people who have committed serious crimes can report on whether their instructor was organized or disorganized, clear or unclear, prepared or unprepared. It sounds like maybe you are not cut out for teaching this population.
I appreciate the comments/ feedback.
I couldn't tell if I was being arrogant or not.
There are many hurdles teaching there. Additionally, one has to be hyper vigilant with students trying to "befriend" you.
I was initially slightly taken back when I heard teacher evals were done.
There are some disturbed individuals and I have zero interest in reading their anonymous comments.
I know don't care about the evaluation process.
Thanks for helping me sort this out!
During our Zoom orientation for teaching in our local prison, the trainer from the prison made the statement, "Don't ever try to bring contraband into the prison, unless you want to teach here on a permanent basis." He didn't smile when he said this.
I would compare teaching the prisoners to teaching dual enrollment students when I go into the high schools. They are very good students; but you're in a very different place, and you need to adjust your strategies accordingly.
OP, talk to people who've taught in prisons--only two of the posters here have done so. I too would be concerned about the evaluations.
When I taught in a prison a couple of years ago, the students evaluated the state-grant-funded program but not the individual instructor. I think there was one question like "Were your instructors competent overall?" (or something like that), but not an individual course evaluation.
Many prompts on our current course evals like "Instructor is available to students outside of class" just wouldn't apply.
We were fortunate in that we were able to follow other community colleges who had already started a prison program in our state, so we were able to learn from their mistakes.
The other day, student inmates wanted to leave early as not many showed up to class.
I wasn't sure if they could leave or if I could demand they stay.
I said I'll stay, run the class. I cannot force you to stay.
Several left to hang out in yard. Officer told them to get back in class and students were pissed at me.
Saying if if gave permission, they could have left.
I don't mind teaching in this environment. However, I don't like this population making anonoymous comments about me that stay in a permanent file.
Perfect situation where admin could step in to help. We all know that's a joke!
As others said, its really the same as any other teaching environment. That isn't to say the behavior or rules are the same, just that you have to put up with feedback from people who have some issues. No real advice other than to say that it usually takes adjustment on the instructor end of things, and if you don't care to do that, then you might have to either take those lumps or go away and do something else.
Errrr, no, it isn't. In what actual college does the professor have to grant permission for students to depart class early, without which permission the students' captors can and will punish them? Military academies probably, but, well....
Some of the rules will be different, but the need to be organized and clear will be the same.
Incidentally I had an older student in a regular class a while back. A snowstorm was predicted but we were all told classes would proceed as usual. Everyone else stayed home, but I made it in to class, and this one student made it in as well. So it was just the two of us in the classroom. We got to chatting and I found out why he was older — because he'd spent a long time in prison for murder. I later found information that confirmed the student's story.
However, he did not murder me, and then the administration cancelled classes, so we both went home.
But I don't think that teaching in a prison is the only chance to encounter students with a variety of pasts.
When I taught in prison, the first class was packed to the gills.
The second night I had a much smaller group. Turned out I was up against hip-hop aerobics.
Quote from: Hegemony on March 14, 2024, 10:56:51 PMBut I don't think that teaching in a prison is the only chance to encounter students with a variety of pasts.
You can do that in our church....
I've been wonderin', are these prison classes full, or not, and if full, is there a waiting list for class admission? And what if any prior reqs are placed on the cons for permission to enroll in one?
This thread has motivated me to be more directly forthcoming here-- recently a guy in our church, 48 now, was sentenced to 10 years in the maximum security state slammer. He was convicted of physically abusing his 13yo stepdaughter, though the jury pointedly acquitted him on a sex abuse charge. The judge vastly exceeded the prosecution sentence rec, obviously believing that the man is a danger to society. He has a criminal record ( a pair of DUIs), and he, well, ahem, looks like a sleazy scumbag you'd cross the street to avoid. Beyond any doubt whatsoever, he was repeatedly molested by his father, and repeatedly removed by the state, placed into foster care, and then given back to his parents (mom was a bad drunk). I do not think he molested the girl now, but my background ain't nothing like his (and I come from a broken home with a mean, violent, abusive drunken father), and I know that this guy could have done whatever. His estranged wife is also a victim of repeated child molestation, and her background generally makes his look good.
All this to say, I am going to go up to the prison to see him, if the state grants me visitation rights (according to the application, there seems no reason for such to be denied). I do not want to go to a max security pen, but must do this. I am not necessarily looking forward to the experience. But it does have to be done. Moreover, I do not like what my experiences living and working in Rusty City have done to me, giving me a hard crust wrt the lower criminal orders, and, well... I am not sure what else to say.
I've been teaching for-credit courses on and off at a prison for about 6 years, and before that did non-credit workshops at the county jail for two.
I'm going to tell it to you straight, like others have alluded to- you need a serious attitude adjustment if you are going to do right by your students. It is in no way, shape, or form for you to judge them. That's already been done by the system. If you can't compartmentalize, don't teach in there because they deserve a teacher that holds that professional boundaries themselves.
Students that have access to education programs have already proven themselves to get higher privileges in order to take those classes. So you tend to get far more motivated students.
As for your concern about getting boundaries pushed by them, and the fear of smuggling contraband, yes lots of people smuggle things into prisons. It's far more of a porous place than people realize. But it sounds like you are still freaked out by the trainings they make you do where they scare you out of doing that. So just don't do it. Just like outside students they try and push boundaries about assignments and time, it just looks slightly different in there.
Quote from: kaysixteen on March 18, 2024, 07:44:26 PMMoreover, I do not like what my experiences living and working in Rusty City have done to me, giving me a hard crust wrt the lower criminal orders, and, well... I am not sure what else to say.
"There, but for the grace of G-d, go I."
Quote from: kaysixteen on March 18, 2024, 07:44:26 PMThis thread has motivated me to be more directly forthcoming here-- recently a guy in our church, 48 now, was sentenced to 10 years in the maximum security state slammer. He was convicted of physically abusing his 13yo stepdaughter, though the jury pointedly acquitted him on a sex abuse charge. The judge vastly exceeded the prosecution sentence rec, obviously believing that the man is a danger to society. He has a criminal record ( a pair of DUIs), and he, well, ahem, looks like a sleazy scumbag you'd cross the street to avoid. Beyond any doubt whatsoever, he was repeatedly molested by his father, and repeatedly removed by the state, placed into foster care, and then given back to his parents (mom was a bad drunk). I do not think he molested the girl now, but my background ain't nothing like his (and I come from a broken home with a mean, violent, abusive drunken father), and I know that this guy could have done whatever. His estranged wife is also a victim of repeated child molestation, and her background generally makes his look good.
All this to say, I am going to go up to the prison to see him, if the state grants me visitation rights (according to the application, there seems no reason for such to be denied). I do not want to go to a max security pen, but must do this. I am not necessarily looking forward to the experience. But it does have to be done. Moreover, I do not like what my experiences living and working in Rusty City have done to me, giving me a hard crust wrt the lower criminal orders, and, well... I am not sure what else to say.
You're showing commendable moral courage in doing this. Why do you feel you must visit? What do you hope to accomplish by this visit?
Diogenes makes a good point above. There's no sense going to visit people in prison to offer judgement to them. The only judge that ultimately counts is God, and we all stand condemned before him. The only way out of that is to accept his offer of grace through Jesus. None of us here needs that grace any less than any of the people in stir.
This makes me think of the two youths who murdered one of my staff members several years ago, and shot and nearly killed her granddaughter. Having never met the murderers, I've not felt led to contact them in prison. I do pray for them that they'll see the light while they still can. Will pray for you also as you prepare for your visit.
The Lord commands His disciples to visit prisoners, esp those who are of the household of faith. I do not believe this man to have done anything worthy of incarceration, and do believe he is a Christian. It is also true that, like it or not, it is pretty palpably obvious that many people in our own church disagree with me, and will not be even writing him, let alone visiting him. I have to support the man, however possible.
But I just do not know what to say to him when I do see him-- 'have a nice day' won't cut it, and 'keep the faith' (or variants thereof) sound like trite spiritual cliches.
Student comments are useful and important to get an idea of their experience. I dont see any problem with giving them this opportunity, and it is the only way you will know how effective you were as an instructor in this setting.
The real issue is how these evaluations a will be used, and you should discuss this with your chair. Where I am, student evaluations are pretty meaningless and we have an opportunity to put them in context in our T&P package. I would hope your internal committees would understand the setting.
If course, this depends on your position (tenured or not) as well.
Quote from: kaysixteen on March 19, 2024, 06:52:47 PMThe Lord commands His disciples to visit prisoners, esp those who are of the household of faith. I do not believe this man to have done anything worthy of incarceration, and do believe he is a Christian. It is also true that, like it or not, it is pretty palpably obvious that many people in our own church disagree with me, and will not be even writing him, let alone visiting him. I have to support the man, however possible.
But I just do not know what to say to him when I do see him-- 'have a nice day' won't cut it, and 'keep the faith' (or variants thereof) sound like trite spiritual cliches.
And what if they are guilty? Would that change anything for you?
Quote from: kaysixteen on March 19, 2024, 06:52:47 PMThe Lord commands His disciples to visit prisoners, esp those who are of the household of faith. I do not believe this man to have done anything worthy of incarceration, and do believe he is a Christian. It is also true that, like it or not, it is pretty palpably obvious that many people in our own church disagree with me, and will not be even writing him, let alone visiting him. I have to support the man, however possible.
But I just do not know what to say to him when I do see him-- 'have a nice day' won't cut it, and 'keep the faith' (or variants thereof) sound like trite spiritual cliches.
Ask him what is going on with him. And listen.
Quote from: kaysixteen on March 19, 2024, 06:52:47 PMThe Lord commands His disciples to visit prisoners, esp those who are of the household of faith. I do not believe this man to have done anything worthy of incarceration, and do believe he is a Christian. It is also true that, like it or not, it is pretty palpably obvious that many people in our own church disagree with me, and will not be even writing him, let alone visiting him. I have to support the man, however possible.
But I just do not know what to say to him when I do see him-- 'have a nice day' won't cut it, and 'keep the faith' (or variants thereof) sound like trite spiritual cliches.
The biggest thing he probably needs from you is to listen to anything he has to say. He no doubt needs somebody he can talk to. If he's a fellow believer then a few words about keeping the faith wouldn't hurt, even if they feel a little "cliched." If he speaks about struggles with his faith, acknowledge that--and that you, yourself, have had your own struggles. In that case, though, avoid the temptation to make the conversation about you. Mainly listen to him.
Yes, good points. As to what I would say to him if he were guilty, clearly and beyond doubt guilty (say he confessed in open court to having molested his stepdaughter), obviously our convo would have to be different.... I would have to tell him he would need to repent, and demonstrate his repentance with fruits meet for repentance, which in this case would be something like manning up and accepting his punishment).
I get what you are saying, apl, but what if anything would you say if he starts to say irrational things, and/or make irrational requests of me (he did something like this when he spoke to me after his conviction on the phone, from the county jail, when he still had regular access to a phone)?
Quote from: kaysixteen on March 20, 2024, 09:26:40 PMYes, good points. As to what I would say to him if he were guilty, clearly and beyond doubt guilty (say he confessed in open court to having molested his stepdaughter), obviously our convo would have to be different.... I would have to tell him he would need to repent, and demonstrate his repentance with fruits meet for repentance, which in this case would be something like manning up and accepting his punishment).
I get what you are saying, apl, but what if anything would you say if he starts to say irrational things, and/or make irrational requests of me (he did something like this when he spoke to me after his conviction on the phone, from the county jail, when he still had regular access to a phone)?
He probably has some mental health challenges. If he started saying things that were irrational, could you ask him if he has spoken to the prison psychiatrist?
Quote from: ciao_yall on March 21, 2024, 06:34:06 AMQuote from: kaysixteen on March 20, 2024, 09:26:40 PMYes, good points. As to what I would say to him if he were guilty, clearly and beyond doubt guilty (say he confessed in open court to having molested his stepdaughter), obviously our convo would have to be different.... I would have to tell him he would need to repent, and demonstrate his repentance with fruits meet for repentance, which in this case would be something like manning up and accepting his punishment).
I get what you are saying, apl, but what if anything would you say if he starts to say irrational things, and/or make irrational requests of me (he did something like this when he spoke to me after his conviction on the phone, from the county jail, when he still had regular access to a phone)?
He probably has some mental health challenges. If he started saying things that were irrational, could you ask him if he has spoken to the prison psychiatrist?
That would be a good idea. You could try steering the conversation back into a more rational direction. It might or might not work. You'd just have to try it and see.
It probably will not be an easy conversation. But if it is something you feel led to do, then it's what you need to do. Again, I will be praying for you and him on this.
Quote from: apl68 on March 21, 2024, 07:26:47 AMQuote from: ciao_yall on March 21, 2024, 06:34:06 AMQuote from: kaysixteen on March 20, 2024, 09:26:40 PMYes, good points. As to what I would say to him if he were guilty, clearly and beyond doubt guilty (say he confessed in open court to having molested his stepdaughter), obviously our convo would have to be different.... I would have to tell him he would need to repent, and demonstrate his repentance with fruits meet for repentance, which in this case would be something like manning up and accepting his punishment).
I get what you are saying, apl, but what if anything would you say if he starts to say irrational things, and/or make irrational requests of me (he did something like this when he spoke to me after his conviction on the phone, from the county jail, when he still had regular access to a phone)?
He probably has some mental health challenges. If he started saying things that were irrational, could you ask him if he has spoken to the prison psychiatrist?
That would be a good idea. You could try steering the conversation back into a more rational direction. It might or might not work. You'd just have to try it and see.
It probably will not be an easy conversation. But if it is something you feel led to do, then it's what you need to do. Again, I will be praying for you and him on this.
Yes. Let us know how it went.
Thank you. I did tell him, on the phone, the last time I spoke with him (from the county jail before he got sentenced, where it was much easier for him to get phone access) that I thought he should take advantage of the opp to get psych counseling, even if he gets out now. He did experience a bit of a crisis round about the first of the year, when his sentence date had to be postponed because he caught covid in the jail, and ended up in strict isolation for at least a week. I am not sure that I got through to him, but will repeat it when I see him.