Since the tragic murder of eight in Atlanta earlier this week I've been noticing, against the backdrop of antiracism chatter, the media narrative is usually all about race. Why? Based on the facts available, I have a picture of a very tormented unstable lonely young man in intense psychological conflict between an idea of refraining from sin and the ready availability of pornography, exacerbated by the internet, 'massage' parlors in the neighborhood and testosterone in abundant supply at age 21. For the old timers reading, we might have recalled a time where Puritanism derived from your religion would have been the culprit that some in the media point to. At least that fits what Mr. Long says about his mental state. (But not that I want to blame religion: Christianity says that we are forgiven when we ask to be.) Whereas prostitution has always been a risky occupation for women of any race, the 'dismantling white supremacy' solution promoted by Prof. Kendi and others seems like another case of 'if your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.'
Thoughts?
on edit: my wife is blaming Donald Trump. I need to hear from someone else.
A white man murdered 6 Asian woman and two others because he "was having a bad day." No big deal.
Quote from: nebo113 on March 21, 2021, 08:23:24 AM
A white man murdered 6 Asian woman and two others because he "was having a bad day." No big deal.
I'm not so sure about that. I see Reverend Sharpton is getting involved.
Quote from: nebo113 on March 21, 2021, 08:23:24 AM
A white man murdered 6 Asian woman and two others because he "was having a bad day." No big deal.
This tragedy is much more complex than that. People unfamiliar with the details should seek more complete data before screaming "race!" and "bad, bad Whites!"
The two "others" (White) killed were also human beings. A third nonAsian person (immigrant from Guatemala) was also shot.
The suspect is seriously mentally ill and had easy access to a quick, legal gun purchase. Plus the whole "spa" thing in the US is getting minimal analysis from press and activists. At least one of the sites was open 24 hours a day. Why are people being hush-hush about "spas" and ethnicities of people mostly likely to work in such? One of the deceased victims lied to her family, told them she worked in a make-up shop.
Every event is not always about race/ethnicity. (Black people have also killed Asians and I'm sure Asians have killed Asians, and some Hispanics might have killed Asians, and....)
Based on what I've read I tend to agree that the suspect was primarily motivated by his fear and hatred of women, as opposed to by the race of those women. That said, it appears that he may have fetishized Asian women, so I wouldn't say that we can conclude that race is irrelevant any more than that racism is the root cause.
Beyond this case, attacks on Asians do seem to be at least partly rooted in the white grievance politics of the Trump Administration, which tried to weaponize racism towards Asians in part to divert attention away from its own mishandling of the Coronavirus.
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on March 21, 2021, 12:09:26 PM
Based on what I've read I tend to agree that the suspect was primarily motivated by his fear and hatred of women, as opposed to by the race of those women. That said, it appears that he may have fetishized Asian women, so I wouldn't say that we can conclude that race is irrelevant any more than that racism is the root cause.
Just want to clarify that my prior post made no claims about the suspect's motives other than a) I'm not convinced he was motivated by race/ethnicity/[add gender here] hate and b) I am convinced that he is seriously mentally ill and the addiction treatment program he accessed did not work for his illness.
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on March 21, 2021, 12:09:26 PM
Based on what I've read I tend to agree that the suspect was primarily motivated by his fear and hatred of women, as opposed to by the race of those women. That said, it appears that he may have fetishized Asian women, so I wouldn't say that we can conclude that race is irrelevant any more than that racism is the root cause.
Beyond this case, attacks on Asians do seem to be at least partly rooted in the white grievance politics of the Trump Administration, which tried to weaponize racism towards Asians in part to divert attention away from its own mishandling of the Coronavirus.
Why would something like that work? What has Asia got to do with the coronavirus?
How is it a white grievance when blacks suffer disproportionately?
Quote from: mahagonny on March 21, 2021, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on March 21, 2021, 12:09:26 PM
Based on what I've read I tend to agree that the suspect was primarily motivated by his fear and hatred of women, as opposed to by the race of those women. That said, it appears that he may have fetishized Asian women, so I wouldn't say that we can conclude that race is irrelevant any more than that racism is the root cause.
Beyond this case, attacks on Asians do seem to be at least partly rooted in the white grievance politics of the Trump Administration, which tried to weaponize racism towards Asians in part to divert attention away from its own mishandling of the Coronavirus.
Why would something like that work? What has Asia got to do with the coronavirus?
How is it a white grievance when blacks suffer disproportionately?
Mahagonny, I'm not about to get into a pointless back and forth with you here, where you go on random rants and disingenuously ask questions that a 3rd grader knows the answer to. If you don't understand why politicians scapegoat or somehow missed Trump's references to Kung Flu and the China Virus, then you obviously weren't paying attention. And if you want to see that there is an audience for white grievance politics then look in the mirror.
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on March 22, 2021, 08:10:30 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on March 21, 2021, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on March 21, 2021, 12:09:26 PM
Based on what I've read I tend to agree that the suspect was primarily motivated by his fear and hatred of women, as opposed to by the race of those women. That said, it appears that he may have fetishized Asian women, so I wouldn't say that we can conclude that race is irrelevant any more than that racism is the root cause.
Beyond this case, attacks on Asians do seem to be at least partly rooted in the white grievance politics of the Trump Administration, which tried to weaponize racism towards Asians in part to divert attention away from its own mishandling of the Coronavirus.
Why would something like that work? What has Asia got to do with the coronavirus?
How is it a white grievance when blacks suffer disproportionately?
Mahagonny, I'm not about to get into a pointless back and forth with you here, where you go on random rants and disingenuously ask questions that a 3rd grader knows the answer to. If you don't understand why politicians scapegoat or somehow missed Trump's references to Kung Flu and the China Virus, then you obviously weren't paying attention. And if you want to see that there is an audience for white grievance politics then look in the mirror.
Well, I repeat that I did not vote for Trump, and although he does know how to get the economy humming he is a bit of a lout (gendered term; forgive me please) and I wouldn't want him to meet my mother, which is my test of a decent guy. But none of that means much now that Joe Biden is palling around with that pig Cardi B. and I'm not impressed by people who think the most important things we should be deciding are when to tell your grade schooler he can become a girl if he wants to or what to do about horrible terms such as "Latino." So I didn't vote for old Joe either. So sure I'm whatever you say I guess. I have grievances against the democrats.
I understand why some of the Trump supporters annoy you. Some of them annoy me in similar ways, probably. but we've reached a point where the White Supremacy sniffing bloodhounds have surpassed the Trump cult in craziness.
Quote from: mahagonny on March 22, 2021, 02:50:17 PM
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on March 22, 2021, 08:10:30 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on March 21, 2021, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on March 21, 2021, 12:09:26 PM
Based on what I've read I tend to agree that the suspect was primarily motivated by his fear and hatred of women, as opposed to by the race of those women. That said, it appears that he may have fetishized Asian women, so I wouldn't say that we can conclude that race is irrelevant any more than that racism is the root cause.
Beyond this case, attacks on Asians do seem to be at least partly rooted in the white grievance politics of the Trump Administration, which tried to weaponize racism towards Asians in part to divert attention away from its own mishandling of the Coronavirus.
Why would something like that work? What has Asia got to do with the coronavirus?
How is it a white grievance when blacks suffer disproportionately?
Mahagonny, I'm not about to get into a pointless back and forth with you here, where you go on random rants and disingenuously ask questions that a 3rd grader knows the answer to. If you don't understand why politicians scapegoat or somehow missed Trump's references to Kung Flu and the China Virus, then you obviously weren't paying attention. And if you want to see that there is an audience for white grievance politics then look in the mirror.
Well, I repeat that I did not vote for Trump, and although he does know how to get the economy humming he is a bit of a lout (gendered term; forgive me please) and I wouldn't want him to meet my mother, which is my test of a decent guy. But none of that means much now that Joe Biden is palling around with that pig Cardi B. and I'm not impressed by people who think the most important things we should be deciding are when to tell your grade schooler he can become a girl if he wants to or what to do about horrible terms such as "Latino." So I didn't vote for old Joe either. So sure I'm whatever you say I guess. I have grievances against the democrats.
I understand why some of the Trump supporters annoy you. Some of them annoy me in similar ways, probably. but we've reached a point where the White Supremacy sniffing bloodhounds have surpassed the Trump cult in craziness.
Your last sentence is complete garbage.
Honest question, perf. Gumbo
how do you think white supremacy is going to be dismantled and what is the timetable, and when will everyone be happy?
Quote from: mahagonny on March 22, 2021, 04:19:36 PM
Honest question, perf. Gumbo
how do you think white supremacy is going to be dismantled and what is the timetable, and when will everyone be happy?
perf?
Only through the continued momentum of structural changes that have been taking place for centuries. I have no clue as to how long that will take.
Never to the last one. And I know you were not a Trump voter, but despite your personal feelings you sure said something awful with the Cardi B characterization.
Quote from: jimbogumbo on March 22, 2021, 04:39:58 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on March 22, 2021, 04:19:36 PM
Honest question, perf. Gumbo
how do you think white supremacy is going to be dismantled and what is the timetable, and when will everyone be happy?
perf?
Only through the continued momentum of structural changes that have been taking place for centuries. I have no clue as to how long that will take.
Never to the last one. And I know you were not a Trump voter, but despite your personal feelings you sure said something awful with the Cardi B characterization.
I intended to.
Mahagonny is literally turning the tragic murder of six Asian women into a white victimhood thread. Stop bro.
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on March 22, 2021, 08:11:42 PM
Mahagonny is literally turning the tragic murder of six Asian women into a white victimhood thread. Stop bro.
This.
Quote from: jimbogumbo on March 22, 2021, 04:39:58 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on March 22, 2021, 04:19:36 PM
Honest question, perf. Gumbo
how do you think white supremacy is going to be dismantled and what is the timetable, and when will everyone be happy?
perf?
Only through the continued momentum of structural changes that have been taking place for centuries. I have no clue as to how long that will take.
Not very specific.
I don't want to call you Perf. You can call me Mahagonny or M.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_and_Fall_of_the_City_of_Mahagonny
on edit: I'm interested in the 'Dismantling White Supremacy' project. What are the changes, how implemented, what are the anticipated phases of getting towards the desired result (equity) and why we should trust the big players on the scene advocating it.
The reason for dismantling white supremacy should be comparable to the reason for developing a vaccine that rids the world of COVID-19. Because
it will work. The reason for a society, together, to mobilize for dismantling white supremacy could be like the allied powers mobilizing to defeat the Nazi Germans. The reason to join the cause can't be 'because life isn't fair.' We already knew that; there's no such thing as 'what a person deserves' in the abstract. There's only what happens or what doesn't. That's not a reason you'll get a coalition and then a result that fixes what it purports to fix. That's a reason to join a religion, which is what 'antiracism' is (google John McWhorter and Coleman Hughes.)
Higher education understands that better than anyone, having a winners-losers scenario among its workforce. We can't even bring ourselves to say 'congratulations for teaching 20 years, here's your gift.' Higher Education is embarrassed by the jobs it implements. But beyond the obvious comedy in that, I wonder what people think is going to happen down the road and how. When you ask for work and sacrifice, or whatever you're asking for, if you know yet, you have to sell your idea.
There's probably a lot more that could be said about the Atlanta killer, but not much new to say about it. Heartbreaking.
Quote from: little bongo on March 22, 2021, 08:47:03 PM
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on March 22, 2021, 08:11:42 PM
Mahagonny is literally turning the tragic murder of six Asian women into a white victimhood thread. Stop bro.
This.
Yes. Certain people have indeed taken this occasion to engage in a lot of excessive rhetoric but NOW, in the midst of widespread mourning over six murder victims, is not the time to call them on it. At a minimum it's extremely tone-deaf.
Please delete the thread and sorry to have created a bother. I may ask my questions in another venue later. That will give people time to collect their ideas on how dismantling white supremacy and eliminating racism are going to work.
My sincere condolences to the nine victims and all others who have been close to them.
The two things that amaze me about this case (but probably shouldn't)
1. The police captain who made the "was having a bad day, so this is what he did" comment was very obviously not a good public speaker, nor particularly articulate, nor likely the best person to trot out as spokesperson. His entire commentary was bumbling with him searching for his words and not expressing himself well. Somehow, all of Twitter and the social justice universe has now turned his awful presentation into a case of "he's apologizing for a white guy, downplaying it by calling it a bad day, and showing how white privilege gets this guy treated." Well rest assured, not only is that NOT what the captain was doing, but even if it WAS, what is that going to actually translate into? Are you thinking they're not going to put this guy on trial and either give him the death penalty or lock him away for the rest of his natural life?
2. Facts matter. Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction. Every indication from the people who have actually interrogated him and presumably served search warrants on his home and electronic devices say that it doesn't appear he was racially motivated, but rather had this weird motive about eliminating sexual temptation. Yet we've got, again, all of Twitter, and half the media, including Trevor Noah, out there talking about how "obvious it was that this was racially motivated but we can't admit it." Sorry, but truth is truth and facts matter - no matter what it looks like. In the middle of winter, I looked out and saw over a foot of snow in my driveway; does that mean that climate change isn't real? It looked pretty plain and obvious to me!