The director of all things woke at Artem U has just announced the creation of a number of racially or religiously oriented affinity groups. This is part of the uni's diversity, equity & inclusion outreach. Apparently diversity means congregating more with people who are just like you. And inclusion apparently means excluding others.
Woke now seems to mean re-creating some kind of Jim Crow or apartheid state. If you're woke enough, you actually come out the far side as a racist.
And I used to think I was a liberal.
Did they just read Robert Charles Wilson's The Affinities?
Are these affinities different from student clubs?
No idea as to who read what. Basically Professor Woke as Fvck has created separate affinity groups for different skin colors, religious backgrounds, ethnic identities, linguistic backgrounds, etc.
I do believe that BLM, that racism exists, that structural racism exists, that some groups have a much harder time in the world than others. But I am skeptical as all hell that creating groups where only purple people or only Esperanto speakers can congregate is not the solution to fixing these problems.
When I mentioned these groups to Mrs Artem, her reply was "Where is the group for old women?" If you really want to be invisible and ignored in this world, try being a 67 year old woman.
Quote from: secundem_artem on September 25, 2021, 02:55:11 PM
No idea as to who read what. Basically Professor Woke as Fvck has created separate affinity groups for different skin colors, religious backgrounds, ethnic identities, linguistic backgrounds, etc.
I do believe that BLM, that racism exists, that structural racism exists, that some groups have a much harder time in the world than others. But I am skeptical as all hell that creating groups where only purple people or only Esperanto speakers can congregate is not the solution to fixing these problems.
When I mentioned these groups to Mrs Artem, her reply was "Where is the group for old women?" If you really want to be invisible and ignored in this world, try being a 67 year old woman.
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that if many types of clubs are allowed, in other words racial segregation is not a necessary condition for at least some clubs. [If segregation is a condition for all clubs, we are in deep doodoo.]
Look at the evolution of the English Gentlemen's club: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentlemen%27s_club#History. Wouldn't be terrible if such institutions spread widely, including to women and people with lower incomes.
But a club that would take me, I wouldn't join! :-)
Lepers?
Quote from: dismalist on September 25, 2021, 03:02:30 PM
Quote from: secundem_artem on September 25, 2021, 02:55:11 PM
No idea as to who read what. Basically Professor Woke as Fvck has created separate affinity groups for different skin colors, religious backgrounds, ethnic identities, linguistic backgrounds, etc.
I do believe that BLM, that racism exists, that structural racism exists, that some groups have a much harder time in the world than others. But I am skeptical as all hell that creating groups where only purple people or only Esperanto speakers can congregate is not the solution to fixing these problems.
When I mentioned these groups to Mrs Artem, her reply was "Where is the group for old women?" If you really want to be invisible and ignored in this world, try being a 67 year old woman.
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that if many types of clubs are allowed, in other words racial segregation is not a necessary condition for at least some clubs. [If segregation is a condition for all clubs, we are in deep doodoo.]
Look at the evolution of the English Gentlemen's club: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentlemen%27s_club#History. Wouldn't be terrible if such institutions spread widely, including to women and people with lower incomes.
But a club that would take me, I wouldn't join! :-)
This sounds OK. The part I wonder about is, what comes next? Are the groups supposed to communicate something? How about communicating that you'd just like to be left alone?
Quote from: secundem_artem on September 25, 2021, 02:55:11 PM
No idea as to who read what. Basically Professor Woke as Fvck has created separate affinity groups for different skin colors, religious backgrounds, ethnic identities, linguistic backgrounds, etc.
Could a bunch of students form an affinity group for people who don't want to belong to any other affinity group? That would be a cool way to turn the whole nonsense inside out.
This thread reminds me of "Living Learning Communities" on campus whereby college students with common majors or interests live and study together. I know little about them but have often wondered about the pros and cons. Perhaps a bit similar to how athletes are often a separate group unto themselves with their own gyms, study centers, etc.?
So are there "white only" groups or not? Does lacrosse count?
How about NRA groups?
Anything for the incels?
Oh, for Pete's sake. This kind of group is conventional and has been used successfully for yonks. "Women in Business" groups for businesswomen. The NAACP. Women's colleges. Historically Black colleges. Groups for Native American students. Different groups have different challenges. And sometimes they want to get together and talk about their experiences, and make contact with other folks who get it. This is not a threat, and it's hardly new-fangled.
Quote from: Hegemony on September 25, 2021, 04:04:19 PM
Oh, for Pete's sake. This kind of group is conventional and has been used successfully for yonks. "Women in Business" groups for businesswomen. The NAACP. Women's colleges. Historically Black colleges. Groups for Native American students. Different groups have different challenges. And sometimes they want to get together and talk about their experiences, and make contact with other folks who get it. This is not a threat, and it's hardly new-fangled.
Excellent, and I largely agree. Can we have an exclusively white man's group though?
Isn't that the group of folks who are still in charge?
M.
Quote from: dismalist on September 25, 2021, 04:12:19 PM
Quote from: Hegemony on September 25, 2021, 04:04:19 PM
Oh, for Pete's sake. This kind of group is conventional and has been used successfully for yonks. "Women in Business" groups for businesswomen. The NAACP. Women's colleges. Historically Black colleges. Groups for Native American students. Different groups have different challenges. And sometimes they want to get together and talk about their experiences, and make contact with other folks who get it. This is not a threat, and it's hardly new-fangled.
Excellent, and I largely agree. Can we have an exclusively white man's group though?
Beat you to it.
Quote from: mahagonny on September 25, 2021, 03:28:38 PM
Lepers?
Not so long ago I posted on FB that I would like to start a group of conservatives who teach in college. A friend strongly recommended I drop it as I would be asking to be ostracized.
Quote from: mamselle on September 25, 2021, 04:14:43 PM
Isn't that the group of folks who are still in charge?
M.
No. White college educated women are the critical mass driving the wokeists movement.
ETA: And there's that part about deciding who gets to be born and who doesn't.
Quote from: dismalist on September 25, 2021, 04:12:19 PM
Quote from: Hegemony on September 25, 2021, 04:04:19 PM
Oh, for Pete's sake. This kind of group is conventional and has been used successfully for yonks. "Women in Business" groups for businesswomen. The NAACP. Women's colleges. Historically Black colleges. Groups for Native American students. Different groups have different challenges. And sometimes they want to get together and talk about their experiences, and make contact with other folks who get it. This is not a threat, and it's hardly new-fangled.
Excellent, and I largely agree. Can we have an exclusively white man's group though?
I imagine many frats fall under that umbrella.
The tipping point for "woke becoming racist" happened when Biden started specifying the race and gender of his supreme court nominee during the primary debate, which was later reported to have been "traded" to Jim Clyburn for his endorsement in South Carolina before Super Tuesday. This led to the need to announce not only gender for the VP nomination, but during the Floyd riots to 'upgrade' the diversity to not only a woman but one of color.
Once this type of thing happens at the highest level, of course it has to be normalized. Gavin Newsom shortly after said in an interview that he would appoint "a black woman" to Feinstein's California senate seat if she retires or otherwise leaves. This apparently was too much for Pelosi's daughter who had to remind him he could have already done this with Harri's seat which went to a Hispanic male instead (apparently not diverse "enough?") instead of a black woman.
Now it's not a big deal at all to hear a business man or political figure say we need to hire/appoint a member of group x. One valedictorian at USC actually said the quiet part out loud and instead of advocating any group simply indicated the need for opportunities for "non-whites."
This type of thing used to be done in secret, but now it's totally out in the open. A college group seems minor by comparison.
You guys must each have been a holy terror on your respective playgrounds.
No one ever probably got to use the sandbox,, the teeter-totter, or the swing next to you if you didn't like them, or they didn't resemble you in some key way, I bet.
And heaven help them if 'their' baseball team won, over yours.
Please grow up.
It's long past time.
M.
Quote from: mamselle on September 26, 2021, 03:39:44 AM
You guys must each have been a holy terror on your respective playgrounds.
No one ever probably got to use the sandbox,, the teeter-totter, or the swing next to you if you didn't like them, or they didn't resemble you in some key way, I bet.
And heaven help them if 'their' baseball team won, over yours.
Please grow up.
It's long past time.
M.
What are you talking about? The actions that have been criticized are precisely the ones
dictating how people should look to fit certain offices. That
includes reserving spaces for men and/or white people. Peoples' immutable physical characteristics should not be the basis for hiring, regardless of what specific characteristics are favoured.
Quote from: mamselle on September 26, 2021, 03:39:44 AM
You guys must each have been a holy terror on your respective playgrounds.
No one ever probably got to use the sandbox,, the teeter-totter, or the swing next to you if you didn't like them, or they didn't resemble you in some key way, I bet.
And heaven help them if 'their' baseball team won, over yours.
Please grow up.
It's long past time.
M.
If you mean me, I went to an all white grade school, so no one looked any different from anyone. I got to use the swing when they let me, because I was so small for my age anyone had the option of bullying me. If our team won, it was never because of my presence, a fact I wasn't allowed to forget. My family moved to the suburbs to avoid an urban school system with rising violence. But we continued attending the church downtown because it had black people in it and my parents wanted us to have diversity in our lives. You're quick to make these hackneyed generalizations.
Quote from: financeguy on September 26, 2021, 02:17:24 AM
The tipping point for "woke becoming racist" happened when Biden started specifying the race and gender of his supreme court nominee during the primary debate, which was later reported to have been "traded" to Jim Clyburn for his endorsement in South Carolina before Super Tuesday. This led to the need to announce not only gender for the VP nomination, but during the Floyd riots to 'upgrade' the diversity to not only a woman but one of color.
Once this type of thing happens at the highest level, of course it has to be normalized. Gavin Newsom shortly after said in an interview that he would appoint "a black woman" to Feinstein's California senate seat if she retires or otherwise leaves. This apparently was too much for Pelosi's daughter who had to remind him he could have already done this with Harri's seat which went to a Hispanic male instead (apparently not diverse "enough?") instead of a black woman.
Now it's not a big deal at all to hear a business man or political figure say we need to hire/appoint a member of group x. One valedictorian at USC actually said the quiet part out loud and instead of advocating any group simply indicated the need for opportunities for "non-whites."
This type of thing used to be done in secret, but now it's totally out in the open. A college group seems minor by comparison.
And...woke is racist by supposing that Black Americans are so fragile and ill-equipped to cope with being in public ('hothouse flowers' - John McWhorter) that everyone else needs to tiptoe around them fastidiously guarding our language against any utterance that doesn't bend over backwards to make them feel protected.
So you are all connecting affirmative action et al. to affinity groups? Rail against your chosen targets all you want, but it's got nothing to do with affinity groups. I graduated from college in the antediluvian days, in the 1970s, and we had plenty of affinity groups — didn't your place? We had a group for Latino students, a group for Native American students, and so on.
Heck, our local high school, in a very rural area in a red state, has affinity groups — a group for devout Christians, a gay students' alliance, Future Farmers of America, and so on. Affinity groups are not "woke." They are clubs.
It's amazing how people see bogeymen wherever they look. It's like my friend whose parents are immigrants from Latvia. She sees bigotry against Latvians everywhere. Is there some bigotry against Latvians? No doubt. But when "dynamic small nations" are mentioned in the news, and Latvia is not among them, she jumps on it: more bigotry against Latvians! When a Latvian criminal was convicted of something and made the news: "Ah, everyone is crowing about how Latvians are criminals!" If someone mentioned affinity groups, she'd no doubt say, "And they have them for all kinds of people, but have they created one for Latvians? And why not?" You all with minds that jump to lefty woke conspiracies when you hear about affinity groups — you're just like my Latvian friend. Not everything is connected to your bugabear. And people forming clubs based on things they have in common goes way, way back — surely even you have heard of the phenomenon.
It's not whether I'm for affinity groups or not. It's whether I trust the people who want them.
error deleted
Yeah, those Future Farmers of America are pretty suspicious.. And we all know what happens when women get together in a group — they even tend disagree with the way things are set up in society! The very idea.
Quote from: Hegemony on September 26, 2021, 05:23:30 AM
So you are all connecting affirmative action et al. to affinity groups? Rail against your chosen targets all you want, but it's got nothing to do with affinity groups. I graduated from college in the antediluvian days, in the 1970s, and we had plenty of affinity groups — didn't your place? We had a group for Latino students, a group for Native American students, and so on.
The ones I remember from university were around interests and/or disciplines. so there was a physics club, a chemistry club, the student newspaper, *etc. People joined groups with other people who had the same
interest, not who looked similar.
And if someplace had a group explicitly for white men, I'd avoid it like the plague. Even though I'd be allowed in. That one identifying factor would be completely irrelevant, and the people who would think it was highly relevant are the people I wouldn't want to associate with.
(*One possible exception would be "language"clubs, like the Spanish club or the French club. However, those were usually made up of people majoring in those subjects, and the point was to be able to converse and have cultural experiences. I'm sure people who spoke those languages but weren't in those disciplines would have been totally welcome.)
secundem_artem wasn't saying the groups themselves were bad. The point is that it is the university creating them in the name of diversity, when it clearly isn't diversity that is being aimed at.
For groups that are based on people's identity, one central question is who gets to join them, and how that gets policed. If there is a group for gay males, then who is allowed to join?
Another issue is who is funding the activities of the groups? Do all students have to pay a special fee each semester to support these groups, whether they join any? Or is the money coming from tuition fees? What activities get supported?
At the places I have been in the last couple of decades, it is pretty difficult for student groups to sustain the energy to keep on going. They have to have at least 2 or 3 students willing to commit to going to the regular meetings of the main student group that oversees all the other groups. They have to submit paperwork and have plans for the coming semester. Some places require a faculty member to sponsor a group. It might work well for liberal arts colleges where most people live on campus. It does not work well for places where most students commute and have one or two jobs. If there is not a grassroots enthusiasm for the new affinity groups, then the administration plan will surely fail.
Quote from: marshwiggle on September 26, 2021, 06:31:50 AM
And if someplace had a group explicitly for white men, I'd avoid it like the plague. Even though I'd be allowed in. That one identifying factor would be completely irrelevant, and the people who would think it was highly relevant are the people I wouldn't want to associate with.
I might disagree here. White men might benefit from getting together to talk about how to process the rich new experience of being the only group never to be able to experience victimization from white men
nor from anyone! Because as we know, white men run everything! And of course they can dust off their Confederacy flags, Nazi memorabilia, hate group membership cards, etc. for an extra session of show-and-tell.
I would go, but I am racially non-binary.
ETA: Seriously, suggesting a group for white men only could be tacit acknowledgement that being a white man today in a college environment is a tense experience that warrants a support group. Posing that thought would be the closest thing to inclusion that I have ever experienced from a diversity team.
Quote from: downer on September 25, 2021, 03:58:27 PM
So are there "white only" groups or not? Does lacrosse count?
How about NRA groups?
Anything for the incels?
My school has a trap shooting team. I will leave it to your imagination as to what they look like. The same can be said for the disc golf team.
Incels have Magic Cards, D&D, LARPing, LAN parties, etc.
Quote from: downer on September 26, 2021, 06:53:42 AM
secundem_artem wasn't saying the groups themselves were bad. The point is that it is the university creating them in the name of diversity, when it clearly isn't diversity that is being aimed at.
Thanks downer. That's precisely the point I am trying to make. Diversity cannot be achieved if we want only to spend time talking and socializing with people who look, think, talk, worship etc just like us. Create all the "Black/Asian/Latina faculty affinity groups" you want. The students already have their various race/culture based clubs. But don't try and convince me that this will improve race relations on campus. If you want to improve DEI, create opportunities (and fund them) for diverse groups to get together and discuss areas of mutual interest or concern. Creating some kind of reverse Apartheid (no whites) is a dead end for the goals you wish to achieve.
QuoteCreating some kind of reverse Apartheid (no whites) is a dead end for the goals you wish to achieve.
But it is not a dead end for purported group leaders who aim to gain political power. The more people are divided by policy, the easier it is for politicos of a certain ilk to gain power. And, of course, the finer the divisions, the more room there is at the top.
Race hustlers.
"Even though it's called the Multicultural Center, it is absolutely open to anyone. We want to make sure everyone is welcome in this space."
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/02/14/university-virginia-clarifies-all-students-allowed-multicultural-center?fbclid=IwAR1TP8Pz0iXtOqpORwYg4frVgMUUZ68ZsiFE1YQRtVp0TjQWP2-Yww7E5F8
Black student claims that they are not welcome anywhere on campus other than the MSC. And is applauded.
ETA: She thinks feeling uncomfortable because there are white people present is supposed to be considered a problem of general concern. Seems to me if you have a problem going out in public, you need to stay home. Or see a psychiatrist.
Of course, she gives the appearance of being quite comfortable.
My God, young people can be so full of shit sometimes. (ETA): That will never change. But we don't have to encourage them to be that way.
SMH
Quote from: mahagonny on September 26, 2021, 03:45:17 PM
"Even though it's called the Multicultural Center, it is absolutely open to anyone. We want to make sure everyone is welcome in this space."
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/02/14/university-virginia-clarifies-all-students-allowed-multicultural-center?fbclid=IwAR1TP8Pz0iXtOqpORwYg4frVgMUUZ68ZsiFE1YQRtVp0TjQWP2-Yww7E5F8
Black student claims that they are not welcome anywhere on campus other than the MSC. And is applauded.
SMH
From the article:
Quote
Shaun Harper, professor and executive director of the University of Southern California Race and Equity Center, said that when resources are available, creating several more specific centers for cultural groups can be preferable to one larger center.
"But even with a multicultural center, institutions have to exercise high degrees of intentionality in the creating of those spaces to ensure that they don't default to an 'All Lives Matter' kind of space," Harper said.
Because we all know what "All Lives Matter" means.....
I think clearing up the language can help: How about Unicultural Student Centers? That way, we could have lots of them. :-)
Well, looks like Black Affinity Housing at Western Washington University is segregating by race.
https://housing.wwu.edu/black-affinity-housing#faq (https://housing.wwu.edu/black-affinity-housing#faq)
Back to Pleassy, I guess.
Quote from: dismalist on September 28, 2021, 05:54:53 AM
Well, looks like Black Affinity Housing at Western Washington University is segregating by race.
https://housing.wwu.edu/black-affinity-housing#faq (https://housing.wwu.edu/black-affinity-housing#faq)
Back to Pleassy, I guess.
I'm really curious what the questions are on the request form to get in.
Quote from: marshwiggle on September 28, 2021, 06:07:00 AM
Quote from: dismalist on September 28, 2021, 05:54:53 AM
Well, looks like Black Affinity Housing at Western Washington University is segregating by race.
https://housing.wwu.edu/black-affinity-housing#faq (https://housing.wwu.edu/black-affinity-housing#faq)
Back to Pleassy, I guess.
I'm really curious what the questions are on the request form to get in.
I've probably told you this before. I had a roommate years ago who was black. His biological parents were mother (white) and father (black). His biological brother was white. This would mean, potentially, that Bob would be eligible for black affinity housing but his brother Bill is not. Or even should not come for a visit.
Another thing they're saying now: we're not banning white people from the premises. We just don't want too many at one time.
Some of these folks will be hanging out at 3 a.m. having pointless black coffee discussions about identity. And deserving what they've done to their minds.
ETA: how about a trans-racial person? Why shouldn't they be allowed in?
I just clicked on the link to see the 'Black Affinity Housing Interest' form. The message came back 'you are not permitted to view this document.' Figures. Should've turned my camera off.
Quote from: marshwiggle on September 28, 2021, 06:07:00 AM
Quote from: dismalist on September 28, 2021, 05:54:53 AM
Well, looks like Black Affinity Housing at Western Washington University is segregating by race.
https://housing.wwu.edu/black-affinity-housing#faq (https://housing.wwu.edu/black-affinity-housing#faq)
Back to Pleassy, I guess.
I'm really curious what the questions are on the request form to get in.
"University Residences has reserved space for 40 students to take part in the program. If Housing receives over 40 applications, our assignments team will work to open up more spaces on the floor for students to live in Black Affinity Housing. "
The question appears to be "Do you want to live in Black Affinity Housing?"
Quote from: Hibush on September 28, 2021, 08:17:24 AM
Quote from: marshwiggle on September 28, 2021, 06:07:00 AM
Quote from: dismalist on September 28, 2021, 05:54:53 AM
Well, looks like Black Affinity Housing at Western Washington University is segregating by race.
https://housing.wwu.edu/black-affinity-housing#faq (https://housing.wwu.edu/black-affinity-housing#faq)
Back to Pleassy, I guess.
I'm really curious what the questions are on the request form to get in.
"University Residences has reserved space for 40 students to take part in the program. If Housing receives over 40 applications, our assignments team will work to open up more spaces on the floor for students to live in Black Affinity Housing. "
The question appears to be "Do you want to live in Black Affinity Housing?"
There's a form that students have to fill out that requires a login, so without seeing the form it's impossible to know what's on it.
I feel pretty certain they would deny a trans-racial person, which should bring a lawsuit.
Quote from: mahagonny on September 28, 2021, 09:46:20 AM
I feel pretty certain they would deny a trans-racial person, which should bring a lawsuit.
Well that's the interesting thing. Since progressives have decided that "transracialism" isn't real, then either the "affinity housing" must accept
anyone, whether they are "Black" or not, or they have to somehow
determine whether an applicant is "Black". Either one of those makes for some pretty awkward possibilities.
Quote from: marshwiggle on September 28, 2021, 09:54:36 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on September 28, 2021, 09:46:20 AM
I feel pretty certain they would deny a trans-racial person, which should bring a lawsuit.
Well that's the interesting thing. Since progressives have decided that "transracialism" isn't real, then either the "affinity housing" must accept anyone, whether they are "Black" or not, or they have to somehow determine whether an applicant is "Black". Either one of those makes for some pretty awkward possibilities.
Of course transracialism is real. I can claim I am woman, while still having male reproductive parts 24/7, and instead of a challenge from progressives, I will get applause and support. There's no basis for their denying transracialism.
But I don't even need their help. Actually, it's not transracialism at all. I was simply misinformed previously. I thought I was a 'white' person though my skin color would never be equated with the color of my tuxedo shirt. Not to mention, I have recently learned that the first homo sapiens lived in Africa. We are all African.
ETA - another affinity group that needs a housing provision: racially 'prefer not to answer'
The question is not whether you are Black. The question is whether you want to live in the Black Affinity Group housing. So: no identity tests here.
Quote from: Hegemony on October 06, 2021, 12:07:41 PM
The question is not whether you are Black. The question is whether you want to live in the Black Affinity Group housing. So: no identity tests here.
As I said above, without actually seeing the form students have to fill out, it's impossible to conclude whether or not there is some sort of identity test. Promotional materials are notoriously vague about requirements for all kinds of things that only show in the fine print of any legal documents.
Quote from: Hegemony on October 06, 2021, 12:07:41 PM
The question is not whether you are Black. The question is whether you want to live in the Black Affinity Group housing. So: no identity tests here.
What I would expect to find in that case would be
(1) A non-black or less black guy who worships at the temple of wokeism/'antiracism' is welcome in the group
(2) A black guy who watches FOX news and hopes the republicans run Senator Tim Scott for president in 2024 is not.
...at least this is what the diversity industrial complex wishes for. But there could be surprises coming. Especially when things go beyond the silly fencing in the media and into the courtroom where things get decided.
There are affinity groups for older white women-try the women's center on your campus and join a committee supporting women in the workplace (or just go to the events if you don't want to plan them)!
I do feel for the white men without affinity groups but you all could create them as long as there was a purpose of service-perhaps have a group where seasoned faculty mentor junior faculty. Or create a social club. Why don't we have bowling clubs anymore?
And there are first gen affinity groups open to white folx too.
Also, the affinity groups (at least the ones on my campus) are OPEN to anyone. If you all want to visit us and join us, the door is open.
You realize you're taking away all their reasons to complain...
M.
Quote from: mamselle on November 11, 2021, 01:23:55 PM
You realize you're taking away all their reasons to complain...
M.
I think for most people, it's just odd to think of joining a group based primarily on
identity rather than
interests. For instance an "old white men" group seems pretty pointless, whereas a group for "Star Wars fans", on "fans of acapella music", or whatever is much more appealing,
regardless of who else is in the group.
External physical characteristics are basically irrelevant unless you're maybe doing some sort of art project where you want a certain kind of crowd appearance.
"Affinity groups" based on the last digit of one's phone number would be easy to define, but will likely attract absolutely zero members.
We worked at an odd and dysfunctional Div. III school deep in the countryside of the rural upper Midwest.
"Diversity" was almost a hysterical concern of administration and some of the older (hippy generation) faculty. The region was almost exclusively white, and the student body was almost exclusively local, so the school recruited minority students from the regional big cities which had all the inner-city educational problems one would expect. The school spent a fair amount of money on this recruitment for a very small ROI. The school had a lackluster-leaning-toward-embarrassing reputation to begin with, and I think the locale was uninviting for most city kids.
What this meant was that there was a small body of minority students who were not strong students to begin with and would probably not have gotten in most places.
To accommodate these students, to give them a place of security, the university designated a "minority student center," which was essentially two meeting rooms in one of the faculty office buildings (former dormitories).
The students who used the center closed the blinds and clustered together in the gloom and tended not to interact with the rest of the student body.
When we got a new chancellor, who was a person of color, the minority student center was immediately dissolved.
Quote from: marshwiggle on November 11, 2021, 01:36:49 PM
Quote from: mamselle on November 11, 2021, 01:23:55 PM
You realize you're taking away all their reasons to complain...
M.
I think for most people, it's just odd to think of joining a group based primarily on identity rather than interests. For instance an "old white men" group seems pretty pointless, whereas a group for "Star Wars fans", on "fans of acapella music", or whatever is much more appealing, regardless of who else is in the group.
External physical characteristics are basically irrelevant unless you're maybe doing some sort of art project where you want a certain kind of crowd appearance.
"Affinity groups" based on the last digit of one's phone number would be easy to define, but will likely attract absolutely zero members.
I think the existence of these affinity groups shows that there are some people who do not find it odd.
But I acknowledge that perhaps old white men find it odd. Perhaps that is why 'old white men' affinity groups are not really a thing, as you point out. (insert lazy joke about congress here.) Is that a reason for them not to exist? Because old white men think they're odd?
There is indeed nothing wrong with social clubs. Have been around forever and the early English political clubs sure moved politics. https://www.jstor.org/stable/2638221 (https://www.jstor.org/stable/2638221)
Social clubs must of course be able to determine their own membership, who is let in, and who must stay out.
Can an old White man's club devoted to, say, model railroading, be allowed to exclude Black men?
If not, why not?
Illegal, one should observe. But one can use correlates of race to do so. That's statistical discrimination, some of which is legal.
Am sure identity oriented affinity groups will behave that way.
I got no problem with any of this. Anybody want an identity war -- different from a class war -- can and will have one.
Me, I prefer the class war (on utilitarian grounds)! :-)
'When you're a jet you're a jet all the way from your first cigarette to your last dying' day.'
Quote from: mahagonny on November 11, 2021, 05:37:12 PM
'When you're a jet you're a jet all the way from your first cigarette to your last dying' day.'
Lovely memory of a real situation, but of false consciousness. :-)
Quote from: mahagonny on November 11, 2021, 05:37:12 PM
'When you're a jet you're a jet all the way from your first cigarette to your last dying' day.'
'Well, they began it!'
'Well, they began it!'
'And we're the ones to stop'em once and for all. Tonight!'
Quote from: ergative on November 11, 2021, 02:57:24 PM
I think the existence of these affinity groups shows that there are some people who do not find it odd.
But I acknowledge that perhaps old white men find it odd. Perhaps that is why 'old white men' affinity groups are not really a thing, as you point out. (insert lazy joke about congress here.) Is that a reason for them not to exist? Because old white men think they're odd?
Congress is a good illustration of the point. I don't walk into a group of exclusively old white men and go, "Here's my tribe!" I'm more likely expecting to be pretty bored. If you go to an event for people who appreciate Bach, the most interesting people to talk to will be the teenager in a hoodie with tats. How has he come across Bach? Or perhaps the fresh-off-the-boat woman from an obviously non-European country. What's her connection to Bach?
In principle, instead of "generic" forums like this one, there could be individual forums for STEM, humanities, professional programs, etc. or they could even be for specific disciplines. The discussions would be able to be much more focussed, but I'd bet they wouldn't be very popular. What makes a group interesting is the
real diversity in it. The differences in thought, perspective, opinion, etc. are what engage people. Even on here, the discussions with the most posts and views are those that get the biggest range of ideas expressed.
So I submit that if it appears that a group of "old white men" is an affinity group, it's probably more on the basis of unspoken commonalities so it's really a group of "
rich old white men" or "old white men
who golf" or something. The purely identitarian parts aren't what makes it work.
If anyone proposed a white people's affinity group on campus they would ride you out of town on a rail. Today, 'white people's group' is only permissible when they are confessing their privilege or discussing how they may learn to be allies in 'antiracism.' If these purposes were not identified it would be assumed to be a white supremacy meeting.
Try wearing a white pride T-shirt to campus and see what happens. I guarantee we'll read about you on the news.
Affinity groups are a place to vent and discuss issues that are important to certain groups (women in the workplace, first gen, POC, etc.). However, we also have social and professional development events. I attend affinity groups mainly for that. Also keep in mind that some POC folx also dislike affinity groups and don't want to join affinity groups and we respect that as well.
I do think that there should be affinity groups that welcome all faculty/staff who want to hang out together and promote networking. I realize that some faculty don't want to socialize at all. At my previous institution, we had a dining hall for only faculty and staff and it was a great place to just go hang out with staff/faculty and network. My current institution doesn't have that.
The reality is that we all need to network with everyone. My greatest mentor looked nothing like me (old white dude) so I personally feel that we need to provide professional development and advancement where folx get to network with everyone and people can certainly find mentors who look nothing like them.