Joseph Epstein/Jill Biden Controversy over Ed.D.

Started by financeguy, December 14, 2020, 03:06:06 AM

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Parasaurolophus

I had a look back through time a bit, and found that some time ago, the media was covering 'Dr. Jill Biden"'s pandemic takes (and also, before that, her response to her husband's views on healthcare). So I guess that's why I thought she was a medical doctor.
I know it's a genus.

mahagonny

#61
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on December 16, 2020, 07:21:17 PM
I had a look back through time a bit, and found that some time ago, the media was covering 'Dr. Jill Biden"'s pandemic takes (and also, before that, her response to her husband's views on healthcare). So I guess that's why I thought she was a medical doctor.

I made a mistake too. I thought she was still teaching off the tenure track. It turns out she is now associate professor. And, mysteriously perhaps, paid well more than most associate profs at her institution.

"Since Ms. Biden's husband became vice president, several part-time faculty organizations and unions have reached out to her in hopes that she would push for improvements in adjunct working conditions." And, apparently, she has not, or Audrey Williams June would have reported it. Which makes her just a typical tenure track professor, because you're not supposed to seriously try to change the role of the gig economy in helping to keep the bunch of you in business at that type of college. I will be absolutely amazed if we hear the word 'adjunct' from her in the next four years.

https://www.chronicle.com/article/adjunct-no-longer-jill-biden-earned-82-022-as-a-community-college-professor-in-2011/?cid2=gen_login_refresh&cid=gen_sign_in

Where I might be more sympathetic to her: If she, as Kyle Smith writes, only got her Doctor Ed degree for the chance to be addressed as 'doctor' without a universally recognized legitimate reason to be called one, then she was doing it (at the time an adjunct) to compensate for a loss of self esteem that happens to some because they have been an adjunct extendedly. Which isn't legitimate either.
"I don't deserve this award, but then again, I have arthritis, and I don't deserve that either.' - Jack Benny

kaysixteen

Hmmm... it is somewhat hard for me to consider chiropractors as 'doctors' of anything, being as how their whole profession is based on junk pseudoscience.   There has to be a limit.

financeguy

I didn't think about Biden's connection to the University of Delaware. This brings up another degree of irritation but reminded me of a secondary plot line in Barbarians at the Gate.

This book (one of the best business books ever written) goes over what was at the time the greatest LBO (leveraged buyout or what we'd call "private equity" today) deal when RJR Nabisco was taken over. One of the secondary minor plot lines is that Nabisco CEO Ross Johnson's wife was seen as kind of a bimbo by those at the company and since he had already bought a new gym for Barry University in FL for an honorary doctorate for himself, he also sweetened the deal to get his wife one as well! Employees apparently began referring to the wife as "Dr. Cupcake," a derisive variation of a previous term...

Oddly enough, I looked up the above paragraph to make sure I remembered Johnson's first name and the name of the University. It sounded familiar and then I remembered this was also the alma matter of Dr. Shaquille O'Neal. Apparently his Ed.D. was earned with a "capstone" entitled "The Duality of Humor and Aggression in Leadership Styles." This led to an Ed.D. concentration in Human Resource Management. (?!?)

In all seriousness, if programs are going to issue nonsense degrees for cash, why not make them a Ph.D? Certainly this would be easier to market to prospective students, right? Considering some of the questionable accredited Ph.D. programs that are available, I can't imagine the accreditation is the reason, or is it? What's in it for the school to call the program an Ed.D?

Side note totally unrelated: The HBO film versions of Barbarians at the Gate as well as And the Band Played On (about the early days of the AIDs epidemic) are the first two made for HBO films and both are extremely high quality. Either would make a great lock down viewing selection.

Katrina Gulliver

Quote from: financeguy on December 17, 2020, 02:16:13 AM
if programs are going to issue nonsense degrees for cash, why not make them a Ph.D?

They do. Look at what honorary degree is given to a celebrity in exchange for them showing up at commencement.

And Barbarians at the Gate is a good movie, I remember watching it years ago: I'd forgotten the doctorate thing.

mamselle

Increase Mather's doctorate, like many others of the day, was purchased (from the Univ. of Edinburgh).

Qualifications were, I believe, also a consideration, and since he read and wrote in Latin and read Greek, he was no theological slouch.

But the exchange of money for an advanced degree is not a new thing...

M.
Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

Reprove not a scorner, lest they hate thee: rebuke the wise, and they will love thee.

Give instruction to the wise, and they will be yet wiser: teach the just, and they will increase in learning.

writingprof

Quote from: mamselle on December 17, 2020, 05:07:07 AM
Increase Mather's doctorate, like many others of the day, was purchased (from the Univ. of Edinburgh).

Qualifications were, I believe, also a consideration, and since he read and wrote in Latin and read Greek, he was no theological slouch.

But the exchange of money for an advanced degree is not a new thing...

M.

So . . . a compromise?  Increase Mather gets to be First Lady?

mahagonny

Quote from: bacardiandlime on December 17, 2020, 03:24:21 AM
Quote from: financeguy on December 17, 2020, 02:16:13 AM
if programs are going to issue nonsense degrees for cash, why not make them a Ph.D?

They do. Look at what honorary degree is given to a celebrity in exchange for them showing up at commencement.

And Barbarians at the Gate is a good movie, I remember watching it years ago: I'd forgotten the doctorate thing.

How about a college that awards the honorary doctorate that doesn't even have an earned doctoral program? You can do that too.

Ruralguy

Sure, we've done it. They are almost all awarded with the descriptor "Honoris Causa" (honorary), so they aren't intended to be academic degrees.

marshwiggle

Quote from: Ruralguy on December 17, 2020, 07:55:57 AM
Sure, we've done it. They are almost all awarded with the descriptor "Honoris Causa" (honorary), so they aren't intended to be academic degrees.

I seem to recall that in the 80's some place gave Lionel Richie an honoray degree and he had "Dr." added to his driver's licence. Anybody know if that's an urban myth?
It takes so little to be above average.

mahagonny


lillipat

Anybody remember that Mike Tyson holds an honorary doctorate?  He got it back when I was in grad school, and we all chuckled that Dr. Iron Mike got the title before any of us did.

Diogenes

#72
Quote from: financeguy on December 17, 2020, 02:16:13 AM

In all seriousness, if programs are going to issue nonsense degrees for cash, why not make them a Ph.D? Certainly this would be easier to market to prospective students, right? Considering some of the questionable accredited Ph.D. programs that are available, I can't imagine the accreditation is the reason, or is it? What's in it for the school to call the program an Ed.D?


I believe an Ed.D is more of a professional degree whereas a Ph.D follows the traditional scholar-practitioner model. Whether or not the dissertations are rigorous is a bit of a herring- the main point is to learn leadership and administration, like an MBA, not publish research.

Edit: And before anyone claims the lack of a 'valid' dissertation means a terminal degree is subpar, I'll remind you that MDs don't do a dissertation at all.

financeguy

I know what the explanation is for the existence of the Ed.D., but given the fact that the Ph.D. (for whatever reason) is more valued, why not call your program's doctorate a Ph.D. even if not heavy on research? I know several Ph.D. programs that have a "capstone" or other alternative to a dissertation such as allowing three separate papers or something else relative to the field such as a written computer program or a piece of music composed. The idea that a "dissertation" is a research project at all I don't think can necessarily be assumed in some fields.

Danny

If Dr. Jill Biden was a man, I doubt this author would have written this op-ed.  Even if you feel that the Ed.D. doesn't deserve the Dr. title, this article's basis is sexist.  Personally, I believe that someone with an Ed.D. can be called a doctor if they wish.