Author Topic: Should the Justice Department indict Biden? Are impeachment actions looming?  (Read 1191 times)

clean

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Given the state of tit for tat in Washington politics, how soon will all of this hit the fan?

Will this encourage Biden to rethink a reelection bid?  Will it empower other democrats to run?

(AS Trump has no challenger, no one wants to be the first to declare themselves Target #1). 
"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am"  Darth Vader

Parasaurolophus

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I dunno, what does the law say, exactly? It should be applied, whatever it says. If it leaves room for an investigator's/judge's/prosecutor's discretion, then depending on the facts of the case, it may be a good candidate for that.

Certainly, from what I know and see, it seems like his lawyers discovered it and he's fully cooperating, and he doesn't seem to have been travelling with them/trying to sell them, so those facts alone mark a pretty big difference between the cases.

As for the political questions... The shit will hit the fan as soon as Republicans can get their house in some semblance of order. They will absolutely try to impeach him, and set up any number of investigations (especially into Hunter), etc. But... the debt ceiling needs to be raised quite soon, no? So my bet is shortly after that shitshow.

I don't think this will motivate Biden not to seek re-election. He's convinced he's the only person who can beat Trump. Only death or a significant and visible health problem will deter him. (As long as he keeps Kamala Harris sidelined, you can bet he's still planning to run.)
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Wahoo Redux

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I don't know anything about the laws pertaining to top secret materials, but Biden is a sitting president.  As I understand it, he can look at anything he wants.  And these are a grand total (so far) of 6 pages of something, we don't know what, although apparently he has been sloppy with classified materials in the past.  And that is just it, sloppy handling of materials.  Is that a high crime or misdemeanor?   

I have no doubt that the Republicans will latch onto this as hard as they can and try to leverage it as hard as they can.  It's how we do government these days.  It just doesn't seem to be the same situation as at Mar-a-Lago, however.
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Ruralguy

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The real problem is that theres basically no precedent for prosecuting a current president. So, if its concluded that the matter should be prosecuted, it will almost certainly be taken up by Congress, and they may do it anyway. Probably the Senate would not impeach, but it would depend on what is uncovered. Of course, it would likely diminish Trump too, since the offenses are similar in some ways. i say that with the caveat that the content is not publically well characterized.

Langue_doc

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It appears that information about the second set of documents that were found in Biden's garage was not made public until after the elections. It also appears that people other than Biden had access to the garage.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/12/us/politics/biden-documents-timeline.html?name=styln-biden-documents&region=TOP_BANNER&block=storyline_menu_recirc&action=click&pgtype=Article&variant=show&is_new=false

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/14/us/biden-classified-documents-delaware.html

Ruralguy

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and Congress has already opened an investigation...

lightning

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Yes. Apply the laws, and let the punishments fit the crimes. This way, there is no longer a Republican defense of Trump's mishandling of classified documents.
After all the probes and investigations are done for both Biden and Trump, as per Mueller Report which set the precedent of "don't bother with trying to go after a sitting president," Biden gets away with it and Trump gets punished. 

Wahoo Redux

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If they go after Biden then they will have to doubly thump Trump.

How the Trump, Biden classified documents cases compare

Quote
Roughly 300 documents with classification markings — including some at the top secret level — have been recovered from Trump since he left office in January 2021.

In January 2022, the National Archives and Records Administration retrieved 15 boxes of documents, telling Justice Department officials they contained “a lot” of classified material. In August, FBI agents took about 33 boxes and containers of 11,000 documents from Mar-a-Lago, including roughly 100 with classification markings found in a storage room and an office.

So this might actually work against a Trump defense. 

If they thump Biden for 6 documents scattered throughout his house, they will have to thump Trump at least fifty times more.

Let the Republicans have their heyday. 
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Parasaurolophus

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I mean, they're immune to feelings of shame concerning inconsistency and rank hypocrisy, so that's a dead end.
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Anselm

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Last Friday evening NPR did an entire 30 minute segment on this story.  That tells me that they think this is serious and not just a simple mistake that can be ignored.
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dismalist

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When Trump was raided by the FBI, I thought that was overkill. I thought such absconding with documents was pretty normal. I had no evidence, mind you, just imagining how powerful people operate. Biden messing up documents therefore doesn't surprise me. Looks to me like a low crime and misdemeanor.

Everybody give the documents back and forgeddabouddit.
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marshwiggle

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When Trump was raided by the FBI, I thought that was overkill. I thought such absconding with documents was pretty normal. I had no evidence, mind you, just imagining how powerful people operate. Biden messing up documents therefore doesn't surprise me. Looks to me like a low crime and misdemeanor.

Everybody give the documents back and forgeddabouddit.

This may sound like a dumb question, but aren't there rules for how confidential documents, especially "top secret" ones, are supposed to be handled? Given that presidents and vice-presidents have offices, with all kinds of attendant security, then unless there's a war or natural disaster that makes access to the office impossible or unsafe, why would they need to take those documents to other locations?

It takes so little to be above average.

Parasaurolophus

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This may sound like a dumb question, but aren't there rules for how confidential documents, especially "top secret" ones, are supposed to be handled? Given that presidents and vice-presidents have offices, with all kinds of attendant security, then unless there's a war or natural disaster that makes access to the office impossible or unsafe, why would they need to take those documents to other locations?

Yeah, it seems to me like taking things home (especially when 'home' is not the White House) is almost always a bad idea, and almost certainly unnecessary. Stuff that needs to be kept secret shouldn't be wandering the world, unaccounted for.
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Ruralguy

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No two ways about it. They both probably violated the law. How egregiously depends on the number of docs, their classifications (top secret and such) and their content (and certainly any punishment would). The one primary difference for Trump is that he obstructed the return of the documents. The one big difference that might help Biden is that he's currently the President, though we do know that some of the documents pre-date his being President.
Other than that, I think we probably have to reserve judgement on both of these cases because we really don't know the scope. Though, yes, presidential aides and so forth have to do a better job containing these docs.

Liquidambar

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When Trump was raided by the FBI, I thought that was overkill. I thought such absconding with documents was pretty normal. I had no evidence, mind you, just imagining how powerful people operate. Biden messing up documents therefore doesn't surprise me. Looks to me like a low crime and misdemeanor.

Everybody give the documents back and forgeddabouddit.

This may sound like a dumb question, but aren't there rules for how confidential documents, especially "top secret" ones, are supposed to be handled? Given that presidents and vice-presidents have offices, with all kinds of attendant security, then unless there's a war or natural disaster that makes access to the office impossible or unsafe, why would they need to take those documents to other locations?

That's what irks me about these cases.  If Liquidspouse did this kind of stuff, he'd be fired and prosecuted.  I don't like there being a different standard for bigwigs than for lower level government employees.  Liquidspouse is very careful, and it isn't that difficult to be.  For example, he reminds his coworkers that their notes from classified meetings will also be classified, so hey, don't take notes in your regular notebook because then your notebook will have to stay at the office.  Take notes on separate paper and leave it at work.
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