The following incident occurred in my city a few days back. I would be most interested in any comments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnQZfTkICXM
I suspect this is one of those times, Dr. 16, in which you are trying to make some big pronouncement about the slippage of morals in the current generation based upon a singular incident.
What I see is the very typical reaction of teenagers to authority, particularly among young men but certainly not relegated to young men.
Compounding this, I think, is the heightened tension between white police officers and African-American citizens.
Compounding this are the ubiquitous recording devices which mean, essentially, that police have to act with a great deal more restraint than they did previously. No longer can police arrest people for "failing the attitude test" since insulting language, resentment, and bad attitude are not illegal.
And, of course, there is the problem of teenagers having no good hangouts, so they have to take their rowdy, impulsive selves somewhere where they will be a nuisance.
To top it all off, there is the tendency for people to become frightened and hysterical when being manhandled and arrested----this reaction is irrespective of whether the arrestee is guilty or not.
Now, you know that I am going to point out a video in which an elder person is behaving quite badly and is arrested by police just to counter what I think is your point. So here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnleuNr_22U
You nailed it, Wahoo. Black kids not causing trouble at Mickey D's.
White manager/white cops. Dr. 16 being his usual old white male retrogressive self. Dude needs to at least come into the 1980's even if he can't make it to the 21st century.
Gee these aren't the sorts of answers I was expecting. You are right that I am entirely in support of the coppers here, as no other answer is possible. One local commenter on the local FB page counted that the cop first in the McDs told the kids to get out or they'd be jugged *23 bleepin times* before nailing the first punk. And he only told them that because he'd been called to the store by the mgr, who was absolutely within his rights to throw 'em all out. The vid does not demonstrate that several of the punks had, just before entering the McDs, shoplifted some stuff from the CVS on the same mall lot, and decamped before cops could arrive. But even without knowing this, exactly what about this vignette suggests anything other than the cops were right? Now this sort of thing would never have occurred back when we were teens, largely because 1) almost all of our parents would have kicked our asses for behaving like this, and 2) the cops would never have been so lenient, so charitable. Like it or not, wahoo's silly remarks seem to suggest somehow that society is at fault, for not providing something for the kids to do/ someplace for them to go (this occurred within an hour of the end of the school day at the local hs, which is maybe 1/4 mile away), as if somehow the McDs mgmt needs to allow unruly, disrepectful punks to ruin their business atmosphere. This city is now full of young punks who behave poorly in public places, and cause aging fat dudes like me, let alone really old folks, to fear being in their presence, esp at night. Someone has to say no.
Now what should be done with the arrested punks in question, well that is a question legitimately open to debate....
You and I had the same "back-in-my-day," mon frere. Somehow you got the old man's rose-tinted hindsight goggles, however. Our generation was just as bad.
The cops did the right thing. What more do you want them or us or other people to do?
Our generation was just as bad, ontologically, but we did not generally act like this in public, for the reasons I said. Vast changes in American parenting skills are largely to blame.
Breaking news: Man selects story that confirms his theory of life!
Quote from: kaysixteen on October 22, 2023, 06:13:42 PMOur generation was just as bad, ontologically, but we did not generally act like this in public, for the reasons I said. Vast changes in American parenting skills are largely to blame.
You and I grew up in very different places, then. Or---more likely---you are oriented differently in middle age than you were as an adolescent. You must know that you are doing the exact same thing that middle aged people have done from time immemorial.
You know that crime stats have fallen precipitously (https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/crime-rate-statistics) over the last 30 years or so. This is particularly true of teen crime rates when we were teens and young adults were much worse than they are now. (https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/JAR_Display.asp?ID=qa05201)
Fight off the curmudgeon, my brother. Don't be a bitter old man.
Fight off the curmudgeon, my brother. Don't be a bitter old man.
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Too late.
I am not 'bitter' at punks-- I think, for the good of society and for their own good, they should be punished for acting like, ahem, punks.
I will acknowledge that I do not like being afraid to leave my car at night when I see punks, junkies, streetwalkers, etc., walking down the road. And I know that 50 years ago it would not have been like this here.
Quote from: kaysixteen on October 23, 2023, 05:39:58 PMI am not 'bitter' at punks-- I think, for the good of society and for their own good, they should be punished for acting like, ahem, punks.
I will acknowledge that I do not like being afraid to leave my car at night when I see punks, junkies, streetwalkers, etc., walking down the road. And I know that 50 years ago it would not have been like this here.
The kids in your video were indeed punished. They were arrested. They will face the courts. They were arrested for trespass. What else would you have happen to them?
I cannot answer what your neighborhood was like 50 years ago, but I do know that there were plenty of other neighborhoods that one wouldn't walk in 50 years ago. They might not be yours now, but they were certainly there. Crime has been falling for 30 years. Facts are facts.
Quote from: kaysixteen on October 22, 2023, 06:13:42 PMOur generation was just as bad, ontologically, but we did not generally act like this in public, for the reasons I said. Vast changes in American parenting skills are largely to blame.
Might you point to specific research that supports your position. And you may include how your own parenting skills produced the right kind of offspring.