Merriam-Webster announced (https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/word-of-the-year/they) "they" as their word of the year. This got me thinking about other gendered words.
My younger child, a teenager, is nonbinary. Assigned female at birth, they don't object to my use of feminine terms like "daughter." But there are nonbinary individuals who do. So what words should we use?
Let's start with that last paragraph. I wrote "nonbinary individuals" where I would normally write "men" or "women." I suppose I could have just written "people," but that loses the nonbinary qualification.
Someday, it will be awkward to refer to my "daughter" (let's call them Q) as my "child." That has an age connotation that "daughter" doesn't. "Offspring" is correct, I suppose, but kind of cold. Meanwhile, what term should my son use instead of "sister"?
If Q becomes a parent someday, what title should they use? "Mom" and "dad" have gendered meanings. They derive from "mother" and "father," so perhaps some derivative of "parent" like "Pa"?
Thoughts? We've spent millennia developing gendered language, so it will take time to develop some gender-neutral terms, I suppose.
Quote from: pgher on December 11, 2019, 09:55:19 AM
Merriam-Webster announced (https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/word-of-the-year/they) "they" as their word of the year. This got me thinking about other gendered words.
My younger child, a teenager, is nonbinary. Assigned female at birth, they don't object to my use of feminine terms like "daughter." But there are nonbinary individuals who do. So what words should we use?
Let's start with that last paragraph. I wrote "nonbinary individuals" where I would normally write "men" or "women." I suppose I could have just written "people," but that loses the nonbinary qualification.
Someday, it will be awkward to refer to my "daughter" (let's call them Q) as my "child." That has an age connotation that "daughter" doesn't. "Offspring" is correct, I suppose, but kind of cold. Meanwhile, what term should my son use instead of "sister"?
If Q becomes a parent someday, what title should they use? "Mom" and "dad" have gendered meanings. They derive from "mother" and "father," so perhaps some derivative of "parent" like "Pa"?
Thoughts? We've spent millennia developing gendered language, so it will take time to develop some gender-neutral terms, I suppose.
There are some choices, as you know. Your son could use "sibling", for instance. But it's true that gender identity, important for conceptions of family relations for most societies, has deep linguistic structures.
I once tried out "Aged P" (taken from Dickens) on my own mother; it was not well received.
Some change will take time. "Ms." solved a lot of problems, as a more inclusive term. If "they" follows, it will catch on, or something else will replace it.
Frankly, I'd love a singular non-gendered term to catch on. Maybe it's because I've spent much of my life writing "subject/verb agreement" in the margins of essays. Maybe something like "some of y'all" and "all y'all" ("some of they" and "all they"?) will distinguish singular and plural? I concede that French people have gotten along fine with a singular and plural "vous", and other Romance languages don't seem fussed. I'm adaptable.
One of the other qualities of "they" it is that it doesn't discriminate between human and non-human. For posthumanists, that's a real asset.
I'm well aware that some of what jars my ear is analogous to what has jarred people in the past.
Quote from: dr_codex on December 11, 2019, 10:30:43 AM
Some change will take time. "Ms." solved a lot of problems, as a more inclusive term.
I almost never hear 'Ms.' these days. Based on my observing, I have to suspect it either wasn't solution that was hoped for, or the number of people needing that solution was smaller than expected.
I like the move towards less emphasis on gender and towards more gender neutrality. I also like some playfulness about gender, such as introducing alternative genders.
I don't particularly identify with a gender, and certainly am not going to call myself cis-anything. Non-binary is a mouthful too.
At the same time, we should remember that biological sex is a good and important category and is mostly dimorphic. There are plenty of sex-related terms that are perfectly useful. Not all male/female terms are gendered. Some are sexed. The distinction between sex and gender is an important one, and shouldn't be made murkier than necessary.
Quote from: downer on December 11, 2019, 11:05:19 AM
Non-binary is a mouthful too.
I've seen 'enby' used for non-binary people (i.e., non-binary -> NB -> enby). It's a short, easy-to-pronounce word that's not already in use with some other meaning, and I hope it catches on.
Quote from: pgher on December 11, 2019, 09:55:19 AM
. . . perhaps some derivative of "parent" like "Pa" . . .
Is that true??? I've always assumed that it came from "Papa," which (again, I assume) derives from baby talk, or perhaps a European language's word for father. Here I must confess my ignorance.
Quote from: writingprof on December 11, 2019, 04:58:30 PM
Quote from: pgher on December 11, 2019, 09:55:19 AM
. . . perhaps some derivative of "parent" like "Pa" . . .
Is that true??? I've always assumed that it came from "Papa," which (again, I assume) derives from baby talk, or perhaps a European language's word for father. Here I must confess my ignorance.
"Mama" is pretty universal across languages for "mother" because it's the easiest sound for babies to make.
"Papa", "Dada" and "Baba" are the second easiest sounds, so that's how we get "father," again, across languages.
Quote from: pgher on December 11, 2019, 09:55:19 AM
Someday, it will be awkward to refer to my "daughter" (let's call them Q) as my "child." That has an age connotation that "daughter" doesn't. "Offspring" is correct, I suppose, but kind of cold. Meanwhile, what term should my son use instead of "sister"?
If Q becomes a parent someday, what title should they use? "Mom" and "dad" have gendered meanings. They derive from "mother" and "father," so perhaps some derivative of "parent" like "Pa"?
"This is my second-born, Q" should work in most situations. But I also think it is a parent's right to call their children something age-inappropriate. Pretty sure my mom still refers to me as her "baby" from time to time.
Sibling isn't a bad substitute for sister/brother - particularly once you get used to saying it so it conveys the same ease and affection/annoyance of any predecessor terms.
Quote from: ciao_yall on December 11, 2019, 05:21:26 PM
Quote from: writingprof on December 11, 2019, 04:58:30 PM
Quote from: pgher on December 11, 2019, 09:55:19 AM
. . . perhaps some derivative of "parent" like "Pa" . . .
Is that true??? I've always assumed that it came from "Papa," which (again, I assume) derives from baby talk, or perhaps a European language's word for father. Here I must confess my ignorance.
"Mama" is pretty universal across languages for "mother" because it's the easiest sound for babies to make.
"Papa", "Dada" and "Baba" are the second easiest sounds, so that's how we get "father," again, across languages.
Yes, what I meant was, "Papa" is a derivative of father (in other languages). If "parent" is a gender-neutral alternative to mother/father, what would be a good derivative of it?
Quote from: craftyprof on December 11, 2019, 07:46:02 PM
Quote from: pgher on December 11, 2019, 09:55:19 AM
Someday, it will be awkward to refer to my "daughter" (let's call them Q) as my "child." That has an age connotation that "daughter" doesn't. "Offspring" is correct, I suppose, but kind of cold. Meanwhile, what term should my son use instead of "sister"?
"This is my second-born, Q" should work in most situations. But I also think it is a parent's right to call their children something age-inappropriate. Pretty sure my mom still refers to me as her "baby" from time to time.
Sibling isn't a bad substitute for sister/brother - particularly once you get used to saying it so it conveys the same ease and affection/annoyance of any predecessor terms.
Of course--I didn't think about "sibling." I suppose like anything, it will get easier with use.
As a higher education tie in, we've had some debates lately about Latin 101 and what to call individual students after they graduate.
We seem to have landed on "alum" will be tolerated if and only if you acknowledge that it's not a real word and you demonstrate you know the definitions of alumnus/alumna/alumni/alumnae and you are intentionally choosing a gender-neutral alternative.
Quote from: craftyprof on December 13, 2019, 05:24:07 AM
As a higher education tie in, we've had some debates lately about Latin 101 and what to call individual students after they graduate.
We seem to have landed on "alum" will be tolerated if and only if you acknowledge that it's not a real word and you demonstrate you know the definitions of alumnus/alumna/alumni/alumnae and you are intentionally choosing a gender-neutral alternative.
Alumni has been used for so long that I doubt many associate it with men except for Latin purists.
Regarding mom and dad, I always liked "parental units."
As a graduate of a woman's college, I can vouch for the fact that if someone refers to us as "alumni" rather than "alumnae," there is widespread anger among alumnae. We've had enough of society using terms for men to mean "people." And when I, as a woman, read some document from my graduate university referring to "alumni," I think, "Doesn't mean me."
Quote from: Anselm on December 13, 2019, 09:36:57 AM
Quote from: craftyprof on December 13, 2019, 05:24:07 AM
As a higher education tie in, we've had some debates lately about Latin 101 and what to call individual students after they graduate.
We seem to have landed on "alum" will be tolerated if and only if you acknowledge that it's not a real word and you demonstrate you know the definitions of alumnus/alumna/alumni/alumnae and you are intentionally choosing a gender-neutral alternative.
Alumni has been used for so long that I doubt many associate it with men except for Latin purists.
Regarding mom and dad, I always liked "parental units."
My friends and I have long (since undergrad) referred to our parents and each other's parents as "parental units" or simply "the units". Spousal unit is along the same lines.
Quote from: Anselm on December 13, 2019, 09:36:57 AM
Quote from: craftyprof on December 13, 2019, 05:24:07 AM
As a higher education tie in, we've had some debates lately about Latin 101 and what to call individual students after they graduate.
We seem to have landed on "alum" will be tolerated if and only if you acknowledge that it's not a real word and you demonstrate you know the definitions of alumnus/alumna/alumni/alumnae and you are intentionally choosing a gender-neutral alternative.
Alumni has been used for so long that I doubt many associate it with men except for Latin purists.
Regarding mom and dad, I always liked "parental units."
I think the Venn diagram of academics and Latin purists is basically a circle.
"Sib" is a useful short form for "sibling"(e.g., I have a sib named Q).
Quote from: craftyprof on December 13, 2019, 05:24:07 AM
As a higher education tie in, we've had some debates lately about Latin 101 and what to call individual students after they graduate.
We seem to have landed on "alum" will be tolerated if and only if you acknowledge that it's not a real word and you demonstrate you know the definitions of alumnus/alumna/alumni/alumnae and you are intentionally choosing a gender-neutral alternative.
"Alum" is a real word: a colorless astringent compound that is a hydrated double sulfate of aluminum and potassium, used in solution medicinally and in dyeing and tanning.
Quote from: Anselm on December 13, 2019, 09:36:57 AM
Alumni has been used for so long that I doubt many associate it with men except for Latin purists.
I think Latin "purists" would associate "alumni" with a group of men only, or a group of men and women, since that's how Latin works. A thousand women are alumnæ; a thousand women and one dude are alumni.
Me miserum! Mecum plangite!
Quote from: craftyprof on December 13, 2019, 05:24:07 AM
We seem to have landed on "alum" will be tolerated if and only if you acknowledge that it's not a real word and you demonstrate you know the definitions of alumnus/alumna/alumni/alumnae and you are intentionally choosing a gender-neutral alternative.
If
boondoggle and
googol are "real" words despite having been spontaneously created by a single person, surely something like
alum, which has emerged over time as a useful shortened form of
alumnus/a, can be a real word too?
Otherwise it's like saying
perk or
perq isn't a real word because the real one is
perquisite.
Quote from: venerable_bede on December 15, 2019, 09:25:48 AM
Quote from: Anselm on December 13, 2019, 09:36:57 AM
Alumni has been used for so long that I doubt many associate it with men except for Latin purists.
I think Latin "purists" would associate "alumni" with a group of men only, or a group of men and women, since that's how Latin works. A thousand women are alumnæ; a thousand women and one dude are alumni.
Me miserum! Mecum plangite!
I think that points to a larger issue. Mixed-gender groups generally have masculine names. Brethren. Guys, as in, "Hey, guys, come here." I'm sure there are others that I can't think of right now. Also terms for professions have masculine endings, like doctor. "Actor" is an interesting case: originally masculine with "actress" as feminine, but I see many women identified as actors these days.