"Haint blue" is a term that, supposedly was coined to describe/define a color made from indigo which was used by enslaved people in the south, and associated later with Gullah/Geechee culture. I have been trying to locate a credible, primary source that links the folklore of the color as a precaution against evil spirits directly to enslaved people and then Gullah/Geechee culture. The first use of the color in the cabin of an enslaved family (that I have found) was in Savannah around 1714. The historians who found the painted walls just assumed that because the blue was found in the cabin of an enslaved person, it is "haint blue." Am I explaining my dilemma with any tiny bit of clarity?? I'd like a primary source that links blue paint from indigo, in the South, used by enslaved peoples who referred to it as 'haint blue." Thank you for your patience!
Jefferson (Thomas, not George) used to journal a lot. In my few visits to Monticello, he was known to keep track of the youngins in his nail foundry. Perhaps there is some discussion of the paint used on Mulberry Row in their archives?
that would be the first place I would think of.
Quote from: clean on August 02, 2020, 12:52:08 PM
Jefferson (Thomas, not George) used to journal a lot. In my few visits to Monticello, he was known to keep track of the youngins in his nail foundry. Perhaps there is some discussion of the paint used on Mulberry Row in their archives?
that would be the first place I would think of.
That gives me an idea! I think I will reach out to plantations and museums specifically in South Carolina and Georgia.
QuoteThe first use of the color in the cabin of an enslaved family (that I have found) was in Savannah around 1714. The historians who found the painted walls just assumed that because the blue was found in the cabin of an enslaved person, it is "haint blue.
I am extremely dubious. Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure that indigo was rare in the American colonies in the first half of the eighteenth century and mostly had to be imported. Furthermore, it was traditionally a pigment used for dyeing cloth rather than painting. On the other hand, Prussian blue paint (NOT made from indigo) was wildly popular in colonial interiors in the eighteenth century, and is documented to have been used in America as early as 1715. I doubt that it would have been used to paint the interior of a cabin of an enslaved person in Savannah that early (you mention circa 1714), as it was a newly fashionable imported product. Instead, I suspect that the color dates from a later eighteenth-century repainting of the interior of the cabin, after Prussian blue became very widely used.
On edit: I got curious and did a little more research. It turns out that indigo could be employed in distemper to create a blue wash that was used on walls. There seem to be two or three books about the history of indigo available; maybe you could find more information in them. But I would still wonder where the indigo came from (to be used in a very humble setting at that early date). Again, this could be a question of a later rather than original wall treatment.
Do we have any kind of academic department or center on Gullah culture that can be contacted about this?
Related trivia: Justice Clarence Thomas grew up speaking Gullah.
A few thoughts:
1. The Shakers used a blue interior paint made from blueberries and buttermilk, if I'm correctly recalling a tour guide's discussion of this, at...Sabbathday Lake in Maine, or one of their other sites (site was L18th-19th c.; tour taken in 1984, I'll have to locate my notes).
May not be relevant, but it's another source of blue paint by an isolated culture...
2. A lot of studies of paints on early American objects have been done by dec. arts curators of the NY Met. Museum, NYC's American Folk Arts Museum (?now gone, I believe...RIP). the Boston MFA, Colonial Williamsburg, etc. The Smithsonian's American material culture division is reliable, too.
3. There are discussions of this in material culture studies like the Durham, NH conference journals ("New England Prospect, Meeting House, and Church" comes to mind), where paint scrapings from colonial buildings were matched to variously colored prints and mezzotints to confirm color validity.
4. Columbia University has had conservators interested in colonial preservation and conservation since the ramp-up to the 1976 Bicentenniel events.
5. Plimouth Plantation's replica shop had a furniture maker who used to know stuff about early paint sources. He may have also taught at the Bennett St. School in Boston, which also teaches responsible, very hands-on restoration and replication work.
6.The decorative arts curators at Historic New England have published on various aspects of this; I dont know if Nylander is still active, but that would be another source to check out.
Over and out for now, I'll probably think of others...
M.
Quote from: fleabite on August 03, 2020, 08:50:09 AM
QuoteThe first use of the color in the cabin of an enslaved family (that I have found) was in Savannah around 1714. The historians who found the painted walls just assumed that because the blue was found in the cabin of an enslaved person, it is "haint blue.
I am extremely dubious. Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure that indigo was rare in the American colonies in the first half of the eighteenth century and mostly had to be imported. Furthermore, it was traditionally a pigment used for dyeing cloth rather than painting. On the other hand, Prussian blue paint (NOT made from indigo) was wildly popular in colonial interiors in the eighteenth century, and is documented to have been used in America as early as 1715. I doubt that it would have been used to paint the interior of a cabin of an enslaved person in Savannah that early (you mention circa 1714), as it was a newly fashionable imported product. Instead, I suspect that the color dates from a later eighteenth-century repainting of the interior of the cabin, after Prussian blue became very widely used.
On edit: I got curious and did a little more research. It turns out that indigo could be employed in distemper to create a blue wash that was used on walls. There seem to be two or three books about the history of indigo available; maybe you could find more information in them. But I would still wonder where the indigo came from (to be used in a very humble setting at that early date). Again, this could be a question of a later rather than original wall treatment.
Yikes! Early 19th century circa 1819!!!
THANKS!!!! I'm going to sort through everything and map out a strategy. And please note my BIG ERROR ON TIME: 1819 NOT 1714.
Books on dye plants should have materials on all this, too.
If I recall correctly, woad is related to indigo and (if the《Braveheart》costumiers knew their stuff) was often used as a body paint...rather far back, I believe, as well.
M.
Indigo grows in the South Carolina lowlands, so it's possible slaves could have had access to the plant. I vaguely recall a tour guide, long ago, talking about how indigo was briefly cultivated in the area before a war messed up trade. Rice was mentioned, too.
Never heard of haint blue, though I lived in that region for many years, but that's not surprising since Gullah/Geechee tends to be a friends and family dialect today. I wonder if oral histories from the early 1900s would be a useful source?
Quote from: Vkw10 on August 04, 2020, 06:47:51 AM
Indigo grows in the South Carolina lowlands, so it's possible slaves could have had access to the plant.
Okay, 1819 makes much more sense. There was indeed an indigo industry in South Carolina by then, which was not true in the first half of the eighteenth century (problems in figuring out how to grow it successfully). (Some people were growing it, but that was far from widespread.)
I can provide one more bit of information that might be useful. Indigo discolors in oil paint, so if the cabin you mentioned was painted with an oil paint, the blue is unlikely to have been indigo. If the walls were painted with wash or distemper, then indigo is a possibility.*
*This is from some old notes I had from Roger W. Moss's Paint in America: The Colors of Historic Buildings, which might be of interest to you. Doing a little cross-checking online, I see that indigo was used to some extent in oil paints in Old Master paintings, so it was not impossible to use it in oil pigments; the degree of discoloration varied.
Quote from: fleabite on August 04, 2020, 08:02:29 AM
Quote from: Vkw10 on August 04, 2020, 06:47:51 AM
Indigo grows in the South Carolina lowlands, so it's possible slaves could have had access to the plant.
Okay, 1819 makes much more sense. There was indeed an indigo industry in South Carolina by then, which was not true in the first half of the eighteenth century (problems in figuring out how to grow it successfully). (Some people were growing it, but that was far from widespread.)
I can provide one more bit of information that might be useful. Indigo discolors in oil paint, so if the cabin you mentioned was painted with an oil paint, the blue is unlikely to have been indigo. If the walls were painted with wash or distemper, then indigo is a possibility.*
*This is from some old notes I had from Roger W. Moss's Paint in America: The Colors of Historic Buildings, which might be of interest to you. Doing a little cross-checking online, I see that indigo was used to some extent in oil paints in Old Master paintings, so it was not impossible to use it in oil pigments; the degree of discoloration varied.
Not really my area, but if I remember correctly, indigo was a profitable cash crop because of particular British mercantilist trade policies and the industry mostly went away after the revolution. Of course, that might fit with its continued cultivation as a garden crop by enslaved people.
Quote from: fleabite on August 04, 2020, 08:02:29 AM
Quote from: Vkw10 on August 04, 2020, 06:47:51 AM
Indigo grows in the South Carolina lowlands, so it's possible slaves could have had access to the plant.
Okay, 1819 makes much more sense. There was indeed an indigo industry in South Carolina by then, which was not true in the first half of the eighteenth century (problems in figuring out how to grow it successfully). (Some people were growing it, but that was far from widespread.)
I can provide one more bit of information that might be useful. Indigo discolors in oil paint, so if the cabin you mentioned was painted with an oil paint, the blue is unlikely to have been indigo. If the walls were painted with wash or distemper, then indigo is a possibility.*
*This is from some old notes I had from Roger W. Moss's Paint in America: The Colors of Historic Buildings, which might be of interest to you. Doing a little cross-checking online, I see that indigo was used to some extent in oil paints in Old Master paintings, so it was not impossible to use it in oil pigments; the degree of discoloration varied.
The upper end source of a deep, bright blue was ground lapis lazuli in the middle ages (not that all producers, whether commercial or monastic, could afford it at the time.)
A very interesting article came out recently in which it was possible to confirm by her exhumed skeleton that a medieval woman was an illustrator in a monastic scriptorium (and not merely a copyist) because the painters would lick their brushes to get the fine hairs to cohere before painting, and she was found with lapis deposits on her teeth.
Summary article here:
https://www.history.com/news/medieval-woman-lapis-lazuli-teeth-study-discovery
original article here:
https://phys.org/news/2019-01-lapis-lazuli-hidden-ancient-teeth.html
It should be noted that, although the articles try to make a big deal about females as illustrators, it was known before that they were active in that pursuit...gotta create a bit of "buzz" around your findings somehow.
Anyway, different use of blue, but...have topic, will research...
M.
As a young summer camper on an overnight horse hike in the Blue Ridge Mountains, prior to bedding down, my group was told a ghost story. It was a terrifying.story about horrendous activities by the "BLUE GUM GEECHEES". Those were said to be a mix of escaped slaves and Guale "Indians", a tribe indigenous to Southeatern coasts prior to European explorations of such vicinities. As a matter of fact, a particularly vicious one of them leapt out of the woods at the end of the tale. We got very little sleep that night!
Pure folklore plus some DIY wisdom, separately acquired in a completely nonacademic fashion...
Poor folk in the south used to paint the inside of their window frames dark blue to confuse the evil spirits and keep them out of the house.
Also, painting your frames and soffits blue confuses wasps, who think it is sky and thus won't build nests on blue.
My useless trivia supply is abundant.
Re: blue gum GEECHEES
There are folks about with blue gums nowadays but I think that is caused by cocaine use.
My useless bits of trivia are that it's really common in the south to paint the ceiling over your porch a pale blue color.
Not sure why, but it does seem to be regional.
Other useless trivia is that the paint was traditionally "milk paint" which is lye mixed in milk and any added color you want. Indigo dye is water soluble and would give a nice blue color.
Quote from: Economizer on August 06, 2020, 06:58:58 AM
Re: blue gum GEECHEES
There are folks about with blue gums nowadays but I think that is caused by cocaine use.
Huh?
Quote from: the_geneticist on August 07, 2020, 02:21:18 PM
My useless bits of trivia are that it's really common in the south to paint the ceiling over your porch a pale blue color.
Not sure why, but it does seem to be regional.
Other useless trivia is that the paint was traditionally "milk paint" which is lye mixed in milk and any added color you want. Indigo dye is water soluble and would give a nice blue color.
The conventional explanation for the blue porch paint is that it supposedly deters insects.
'Course, if you put "Haint Blue" in Google, you can link to the folklore.
I have nothing to offer, except to say that I love this thread. I wish more of the Fora would emulate it.
Thank you all for your expertise and quirky knowledges.
dc
Quote from: sinenomine on August 08, 2020, 05:41:05 AM
Quote from: the_geneticist on August 07, 2020, 02:21:18 PM
My useless bits of trivia are that it's really common in the south to paint the ceiling over your porch a pale blue color.
Not sure why, but it does seem to be regional.
Other useless trivia is that the paint was traditionally "milk paint" which is lye mixed in milk and any added color you want. Indigo dye is water soluble and would give a nice blue color.
The conventional explanation for the blue porch paint is that it supposedly deters insects.
May be a Deep South thing. I don't recall ever seeing or hearing about it in Arkansas.
Quote from: dr_codex on August 10, 2020, 07:13:20 PM
I have nothing to offer, except to say that I love this thread. I wish more of the Fora would emulate it.
Thank you all for your expertise and quirky knowledges.
dc
I agree, this is one of the most interesting and unusual threads I've ever read, and I've been on the fora since 2006 or so. Fascinating!
And then there's this blue ceiling....
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mausoleum_of_Galla_Placidia_ceiling_mosaics.jpg#mw-jump-to-license
;--》
M.
The Old House Journal may actually be a good source of information -- or at least places to go to track down historically accurate paint colors (and who they work with to make them). Their team are kind of geeks about this sort of stuff.
Was milk paint common in the South? Because in the colonial North, that shade of blue would have been a milk paint, deep slate or other blue, diluted heavily. (it seems like sometime in the 20th century all NE homes that painted their porches were required to use the same shade of gray for some reason; at least on the floors. IMHO)
May be town specific...seems like on a long-ago visit to Annapolis there were strict historic preservation codes limiting houses to white and trim to black or dark blue...
Again, my memory, not research. :-)
Whites out in the "country" sometimes hear about or speak of a "house of blue lights". My idea is that one of those is a recreational or party place.that might be involved in the sales or use of contraband items. Do any of y'all know particulars as to that?
Quote from: Economizer on August 11, 2020, 02:28:57 PM
Whites out in the "country" sometimes hear about or speak of a "house of blue lights". My idea is that one of those is a recreational or party place.that might be involved in the sales or use of contraband items. Do any of y'all know particulars as to that?
In my neck of the woods, you would look for the red light. Blue always met that there was a military vet or LEO involved family there of some kind (as long as I can remember, which would be the early 80s or so).
What are the origins of the word "haint"? Is this a corruption of "haunt", or something implying a ghostly color?
Quote from: wareagle on August 12, 2020, 11:46:34 AM
What are the origins of the word "haint"? Is this a corruption of "haunt", or something implying a ghostly color?
Apparently.
I've always assumed it was a variation on "haunt." About the only person I've ever actually heard use "haint" is an uncle who referred to a high-performance motorcycle as "running like a haint."
In my vast southern multicultural experience, I understand that haint was a personification through the use of the word haunt to depict ghosts or spooks verbally. It was used commonly in the poorer African-American cultures in the Southeastern U.S.
I thought perhaps haint blue had to do with the (typically) cobalt blue of the bottles used on the bottle trees. These are meant to trap the haints and keep your home safe. Or at least that is what I was taught.
This just showed up:
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/what-the-color-haint-blue-means-to-the-descendants-of-enslaved-africans?utm_source=pocket-newtab
Wow. Like they'd been reading this thread, or something....
M.
Quote from: mamselle on August 24, 2020, 02:43:08 PM
Wow. Like they'd been reading this thread, or something....
M.
Saw the same thing here!
And, speaking of woad, as we were, earlier...
https://boingboing.net/2020/08/24/watercolor-paint-made-from-woa.html/amp
M.
Quote from: Catherder on August 24, 2020, 02:00:22 PM
This just showed up:
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/what-the-color-haint-blue-means-to-the-descendants-of-enslaved-africans?utm_source=pocket-newtab
Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, it does not reference original sources as to the origins of the term. I am trying to move beyond the "we-all-know-it" sources.
Could you contact the author, Shoshi Parks? I looked her up and she does have a doctorate in archaeology/anthropology.
Try shoshiparks@gmail.com
Quote from: Catherder on August 25, 2020, 05:47:16 AM
Could you contact the author, Shoshi Parks? I looked her up and she does have a doctorate in archaeology/anthropology.
Try shoshiparks@gmail.com
Thanks.
Did you ever get a reference source for this? Back in the Fall, I went to USC-Beaufort (in Beaufort SC) Library to look through their reference collection for an answer. I did not find it in art reference books, nor local history reference books. The color and history was mentioned in a lot of books, but no official source on etymology.
Quote from: The Future on April 19, 2021, 10:51:51 AM
Did you ever get a reference source for this? Back in the Fall, I went to USC-Beaufort (in Beaufort SC) Library to look through their reference collection for an answer. I did not find it in art reference books, nor local history reference books. The color and history was mentioned in a lot of books, but no official source on etymology.
PMing you.
Haint whatcha do. it's the way how you do it.
Partly right.
Depending on whether you're thinking of Ella's version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8fCXNTCWig
or the one Frankie Manning usually danced the Shim-Sham to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhnNhr1spoM
That was one possibly rendering.
The band in the second one sings the lyrics, using the 'h' both for 'hain't' and 'hatcha'--so, not watcha, just to be pedantic about it.)
Frankie was in his 90s in this video, that's his son Chazz Young dancing with him.
There was also a global video of the shim-sham, in honor of his 95th birthday, here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTFh_Ty6YcE
He died just shortly before the celebration; this is a tribute to him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m34eD21QzUw
M.
Quote from: mamselle on April 20, 2021, 07:47:44 AM
Partly right.
Depending on whether you're thinking of Ella's version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8fCXNTCWig
or the one Frankie Manning usually danced the Shim-Sham to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhnNhr1spoM
That was one possibly rendering.
The band in the second one sings the lyrics, using the 'h' both for 'hain't' and 'hatcha'--so, not watcha, just to be pedantic about it.)
Frankie was in his 90s in this video, that's his son Chazz Young dancing with him.
There was also a global video of the shim-sham, in honor of his 95th birthday, here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTFh_Ty6YcE
He died just shortly before the celebration; this is a tribute to him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m34eD21QzUw
M.
Oh my goodness. Never seen the Shim Sham. Michael Jackson's Moonwalk is robotic by comparison!
It's great fun to do with 100 folks in a dance hall, all improvising like crazy!
M.
Thanks for the video lesson in dance history, Mamselle! I didn't know about all of this. Fun and joyful!
You're welcome!
One of our local teachers appears for, like, 2 seconds around 1:30 or so on the Shim-sham thread.
If you know it, it's all you can do not to get up and start dancing with the music.
There are online and local (well--when possible, again) in-person groups doing classes and dances now.
M.
Ella Mae Morse. Killin' alto saxophone solo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RAg4vpi-H8
An update on my search for the origins of haint blue.
This coming week, I will be meeting with a local history librarian in Gullah country. We will search the collection for early reference to the term.
I've also contacted a curator at a historic home, also in Gullah country, which used the term in regard to a portion of the site.
By sometime next week, I hope to have more definitive information.
Looking forward to it, nebo113!
I've recently noticed a couple of articles on the early use of indigo and/or woad in Africa and India.
I forgot to bookmark them/email them to myself, but could find them if useful.
As with smallpox inoculation, N. Am. culture benefits from so many other places' innovations and discoveries.
M.
Quote from: mamselle on March 19, 2022, 10:20:16 AM
I've recently noticed a couple of articles on the early use of indigo and/or woad in Africa and India.
I forgot to bookmark them/email them to myself, but could find them if useful.
As with smallpox inoculation, N. Am. culture benefits from so many other places' innovations and discoveries.
M.
Yes, we are a melange of any cultures. Hold off for the time being on tracking down the articles, as I think the museum curator is working from Africa to US and back. Let me see what she has. Thanks.
Oh wow, 'from Africa-to the US-and back', this should be good, thank you nebo113 !
I know that laundry blue (Reckitt's blue in the UK and Mrs Stewart's bluing in the USA) was often used to tint limewash in the 19th century. It was favored by poor folk because it was very cheap. Limewash was often the only kind of house paint they could afford and blue was one of the very few additives they could use to brighten things up. In my country, adding Reckitt's blue was widely believed to keep away flies. I never heard anything about spirits, though. It all sounds most interesting. Happy hunting!
Quote from: FKM100 on March 21, 2022, 10:12:59 PM
I know that laundry blue (Reckitt's blue in the UK and Mrs Stewart's bluing in the USA) was often used to tint limewash in the 19th century. It was favored by poor folk because it was very cheap. Limewash was often the only kind of house paint they could afford and blue was one of the very few additives they could use to brighten things up. In my country, adding Reckitt's blue was widely believed to keep away flies. I never heard anything about spirits, though. It all sounds most interesting. Happy hunting!
Interesting! From what I understand, the actual composition of whatever might be determined to be
hant blue is under consideration. Indigo and buttermilk may be involved, but I am far from an expert.
Did we talk upthread about the use of buttermilk as a base for a blue paint in one of the Shaker Villages? (I want to say NH, but don't recall for sure, could have been in NY).
I don't now remember if it were indigo or some other coloring agent, but I do remember buttermilk was involved.
I could just read through the thread, of course...
M.
Here is what I consider the definitive response on haint blue...there is no such thing, except as brought to us be white folks.
From a curator at Telfair, Atlanta, which up until a few years ago, called the color on a ceiling in the room of an enslaved person, haint blue
"Previously it was believed that blue paint on our ceiling in the Slave Quarters was haint blue. However, after a paint analysis was done in 2019, we discovered that it is actually a synthetic ultramarine limewash. No organic additives like milk, starch, or indigo were found. This limewash became available around the 1830s and is found in other slave quarters/spaces at sites in Charleston like the Heyward-Washington House and Aiken-Rhett House. We have been trying to go around to media sources and correct the information that states the paint on our ceiling as 'haint blue'.
Unfortunately, the origins and history behind 'haint blue' remain a mystery. Our sources are very limited, but we continue to do more research to try to understand. If you do happen to discover new information on your searches, please share, and vice versa. I feel there is an endless amount of research to be done on haint blue......" (end of curator quote)
Moreover, when I met with a local librarian knowledgeable in low country history, and went through many tomes in addition to my online research, the earliest references to haint blue were from after the turn of the century and were by white folks doing primarily anthropological studies. Even they referenced it as being indigenous to Gullah Culture, though with no solid references, not even "According to Aunt Sally on St Helena Island....." More along the lines of "We know it's from Gullah/Geechee culture so we don't need to provide credible evidence."
Thanks for the follow-up.
Interesting that it's manufactured. I was trying to recall at one point if I'd heard something about blueberries for the Shaker paint colors I'd heard of, but had discounted it as likely to spoil and/or attract bugs.
Has a verbal study of the term itself been done? (a la OED, although they're not always reliable, either--heresy, I know...).
M.