Associated Press (https://canoe.com/news/world/vegas-shooter-who-killed-3-was-professor-who-recently-applied-for-job-at-unlv/wcm/851ee01d-5d5b-4ffd-9369-295fe88d744a)
QuoteLAS VEGAS — Terrified students and professors cowered in classrooms and dorms as a gunman roamed the floors of a University of Nevada, Las Vegas building, killing three people and critically wounding a fourth before dying in a shootout with police.
The gunman in Wednesday's shooting was a professor who had unsuccessfully sought a job at the school, a law enforcement official with direct knowledge of the investigation told The Associated Press. He previously worked at East Carolina University in North Carolina, said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to release the information publicly.
From ABC:
QuotePolito maintained a LinkedIn page and a personal website. On the website, he published a 15-page document on the Zodiac Killer, claiming to have decoded some of the cryptic messages from the killer who operated in Northern California in the late 1960s.
Mental illness is the most likely scenario, I think.
I'm still trying to connect with a friend who worked in that building... :(
Quote from: Wahoo Redux on December 07, 2023, 09:40:00 AMFrom ABC:
QuotePolito maintained a LinkedIn page and a personal website. On the website, he published a 15-page document on the Zodiac Killer, claiming to have decoded some of the cryptic messages from the killer who operated in Northern California in the late 1960s.
Mental illness is the most likely scenario, I think.
Isn't that kind of like attributing a death to "heart failure"?
Any death happens when the heart stops, and anyone going on a shooting rampage is not in "good mental health", by any reasonable definition.
His personal web page is still up. He lists MENSA membership, and has a 47 page vita with around 12 refereed publications. It contains a huge list of service work.
The NY Post has some interesting information:
"Polito's LinkedIn account states he was a "semi-retired university professor" based in Las Vegas and attended undergraduate at Radford University in Virginia, where he graduated with a double major in mathematics and statistics before he earned his master's degree at Duke University and completed his doctorate of philosophy at the University of Georgia. He served as an associate professor for 15½ years at East Carolina University from August 2001 to January 2017."
and even more interesting:
"During that time, he also ran a personal website about his life, in which he posted a 15-page theory claiming he decoded the messages left by the Zodiac Killer, who operated in Northern California in the late 1960s. He further claimed to have solved the fate of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 and figured out the true meaning of Leonardo DiCaprio's 2010 film "Inception."... In the favorite-movie section, Polito includes "Apocalypse: Now" and recommends Oliver Stone's conspiracy-laden "JFK" and Ayn Rand's conservative epic "The Fountainhead." Polito writes that each of his favorite films "argues a truth with powerful eloquence."
"His site also lists people he credited as the "Great Minds of the Twentieth Century," including George Soros, Nikola Tesla and astronomer Carl Sagan. In a section titled "Powerful Organizations Bent on World Domination," Polito includes the Rothschild family, the National Security Administration and even the Economics Department at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. The section also linked back to a website created by far-right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones."
https://nypost.com/2023/12/07/news/unlv-mass-shooting-suspect-idd-as-anthony-polito-professor-who-failed-to-get-job-at-school/
Don't know how long this will be up: https://www.tonypolito.com
Quote from: Hegemony on December 07, 2023, 02:04:24 PMand completed his doctorate of philosophy at the University of Georgia.
Just to be clear, his PhD is in "operations management", not philosophy.
Quote from: jimbogumbo on December 07, 2023, 02:23:12 PMDon't know how long this will be up: https://www.tonypolito.com
From his website (linked above), perhaps the most interesting category is:
Powerful Organzations Bent on Global Domination! • 1001 Club • Bank for International Settlements • Bilderberg Group • Bohemian Grove • Club of Rome • Committee of 300 • Council on Foriegn Relations • Echelon • Economics Department at MIT • Freemasonry • Illuminati • International Monetary Fund • Monsanto • National Security Administration • Prison Planet • Shape-shifting Reptilian Aliens & David Icke • The Anonymous Operations Payback Network • The Hellfire Club • The Rosicrucians • The Rothchild Family • The Trilateral Commission • Skull & Bones • United Nations
The Illuminati ... well. Not to mention Shape-Shifting Reptilian Aliens. (I prefer the aliens who keep their ET-like form myself.)
QuotePowerful Organizations Bent on Global Domination! ... Economics Department at MIT ... .
Well, yeah! Thank God for the University of Chicago Economics Department to keep those guys at bay. :-)
It's very, very sad, but we don't want this incident to lead us into hiring every disgruntled academic.
Quote from: Hegemony on December 07, 2023, 03:01:59 PMQuote from: jimbogumbo on December 07, 2023, 02:23:12 PMDon't know how long this will be up: https://www.tonypolito.com
From his website (linked above), perhaps the most interesting category is:
Powerful Organzations Bent on Global Domination! • 1001 Club • Bank for International Settlements • Bilderberg Group • Bohemian Grove • Club of Rome • Committee of 300 • Council on Foriegn Relations • Echelon • Economics Department at MIT • Freemasonry • Illuminati • International Monetary Fund • Monsanto • National Security Administration • Prison Planet • Shape-shifting Reptilian Aliens & David Icke • The Anonymous Operations Payback Network • The Hellfire Club • The Rosicrucians • The Rothchild Family • The Trilateral Commission • Skull & Bones • United Nations
The Illuminati ... wQuote from: jimbogumbo on December 07, 2023, 12:25:03 PMHis personal web page is still up. He lists MENSA membership, and has a 47 page vita with around 12 refereed publications. It contains a huge list of service work.
Yeah I saw that too. It's obviously not the point, but I couldn't help thinking "who puts a line on their CV every time they write a letter of rec or goes to some department reception."
The latest from the NYT (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/07/us/university-nevada-las-vegas-shooting.html):
QuoteMan Who Killed 3 U.N.L.V. Faculty Members Had Pursued College Jobs, Officials Say
The 67-year-old gunman taught at East Carolina University for nearly 16 years and had a target list of faculty members there and at U.N.LV., the police said.
The first half of the article:
QuoteThe man who shot and killed three faculty members on Wednesday at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, was himself a professor who had tried and failed to get several jobs at colleges in the state, the authorities said on Thursday.
The gunman, Anthony Polito, 67, was living in a Las Vegas suburb and was killed by the police during a shootout after his rampage, officials said. Mr. Polito also shot and injured a fourth person, a man identified as a 38-year-old visiting professor who was being treated at a hospital for life-threatening wounds.
Shortly before the shooting, the police said, Mr. Polito had mailed 22 letters to employees at universities across the country, at least one of which contained an unknown white powder. The contents of the additional letters were not yet known.
Sheriff Kevin McMahill of the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department said Mr. Polito had used a 9-millimeter handgun to carry out the attack and brought 11 magazines with him, two of which had been emptied by the time he was killed.
The Clark County coroner's office identified two of the people who were killed as Patricia Navarro Velez, 39, an assistant professor of accounting, and Cha Jan Chang, 64, who went by Jerry and was a professor of management information systems. Both had offices inside Frank and Estella Beam Hall, which houses the U.N.L.V. business school and where the shooting took place across several floors.
The identity of the third faculty member who was killed was being withheld until officials could notify the person's family.
Mr. Polito taught at the business school at East Carolina University in Greenville, N.C., for nearly 16 years, until 2017. Sheriff McMahill said the police were still trying to understand the gunman's exact motive, but that he had made a list of people he was seeking on the U.N.L.V. campus as well as at East Carolina University. None of those individuals were actually shot in the attack.
Mr. Polito was in financial trouble, and officers found a notice of eviction on his front door when they arrived at his apartment on Wednesday, the sheriff said.
The shooting rattled the campus of one of Nevada's largest colleges — which sits just east of the Las Vegas Strip, the main casino corridor — at a time when students were preparing for final exams scheduled for next week. The police said Mr. Polito had started shooting inside the business school hall shortly before noon on Wednesday.
A U.N.L.V. police officer arrived within 78 seconds of the initial call of a shooter on campus, and more officers soon followed, immediately entering the building, officials said.
The exact movements of the officers and gunman were not clear — there were no security cameras in the hallways, the sheriff said — but the shooter eventually exited the building about 10 minutes after the first report of gunfire. There, he confronted a police officer, and the two engaged in a shootout, during which the officer fatally shot Mr. Polito, based on video that was shown at a news conference on Thursday.
Students had been exiting classes when they heard gunshots and ran to cower in classrooms with the lights turned off. The business school is in the heart of campus and sits next to the Student Union, where students were enjoying food and a Lego-building event intended to help them relax before final exams.
Sheriff McMahill noted that the gunman still had about 150 rounds of ammunition on him when he was killed, and said he believed that the gunman might have continued his attack at the Student Union had he not been stopped.
"I believe we averted a much larger tragedy by the actions of that heroic police officer," the sheriff said.
The second half of the NYT article:
QuoteThe gunman had an address at the Promontory Point apartments in Henderson, a suburban city south of Las Vegas. On Thursday, the stucco-style buildings and apartment complex were quiet. Caution tape blocked off the section of the complex where Mr. Polito's apartment was, next to a small pool, with two police officers standing in front of his building.
Michele Pearson, a 54-year-old occupational therapist who lives in a neighboring building, was watching "C.S.I. Vegas" on Wednesday night when she heard a SWAT team arrive at the complex. She said law enforcement officers announced on a bullhorn that they had a search warrant for the apartment number where Mr. Polito lived.
The officers called out a few times, and then Ms. Pearson heard a bang.
The apartment complex is about a 20-minute drive from U.N.L.V.'s campus, where police cruisers dotted the grounds on Thursday.
David Lenzin, 25, a computer engineering student from Calgary, Alberta, had returned to collect things from a design competition that was held by the engineering department on Wednesday. He and other students had dressed up and gotten to campus early to show off designs that they had spent a year making; Mr. Lenzin's was a prototype of a robot that would clean surfaces.
"It's eerie being on campus," he said. "It's empty. There's cops everywhere. When you walk past people on campus, you just see crestfallen faces."
For many students on campus — nearly 90 percent of whom are Nevadans — the shooting recalled the horrors of the 2017 attack at a country music concert just a few miles away. That shooting, the deadliest in modern American history, left 60 people dead and hundreds more injured.
U.N.L.V.'s president, Keith E. Whitfield, said on Thursday that Professor Navarro Velez joined the university about five years ago. She previously worked at PwC, the accounting firm, in Puerto Rico, and went to college at the University of Puerto Rico. She had gotten her Ph.D. in accounting at the University of Central Florida, according to her biography on the U.N.L.V. website.
Professor Chang had taught at the school for more than 20 years after receiving his Ph.D. from the University of Pittsburgh in 2001, according to his résumé. He had completed his undergraduate studies in oceanography at National Taiwan Ocean University.
Mr. Whitfield, the president, said in a statement that the shooting on Wednesday had been, in many ways, "the realization of our greatest fear."
At a news conference, he resisted the idea of closing off the campus to the city around it.
"My inclination is not to close the campus but to see if there are other things we can do," he said, adding that he supported the idea of adding more security cameras.
I'm pretty sure this guy was over on Reddit and posted some of his psychosis there. I, along with a number of other people, responded critically to one of his crazy posts, and then it disappeared. I'm kind of creeped out by that.
Quote from: Wahoo Redux on December 07, 2023, 07:31:03 PMI'm pretty sure this guy was over on Reddit and posted some of his psychosis there. I, along with a number of other people, responded critically to one of his crazy posts, and then it disappeared. I'm kind of creeped out by that.
Yikes. Wahoo Redux, do you mind saying which page on Reddit he was posting on?
Quote from: Hegemony on December 07, 2023, 07:42:54 PMQuote from: Wahoo Redux on December 07, 2023, 07:31:03 PMI'm pretty sure this guy was over on Reddit and posted some of his psychosis there. I, along with a number of other people, responded critically to one of his crazy posts, and then it disappeared. I'm kind of creeped out by that.
Yikes. Wahoo Redux, do you mind saying which page on Reddit he was posting on?
It was the Zodiac Killer subreddit. He posted the material from his "paper," which is really quiet extensive and is written like an academic report, albeit somewhat casual in tone, about his "decoding" of one of the Zodiac ciphers. His explanation was somewhat scattered, very complicated, and did not make a lot of sense. A number of us challenged him and, I believe, he deleted the post.
I should point out that everyone on Reddit has an avatar, so it is possible that someone else read his paper on LinkedIn and then reposted his material, but whoever posted it was rather vehement in their responses to the other posters. I am convincing myself that we did not help drive him over the edge (assuming the worst) which, of course, we didn't...still, it is creepy and unsettling. It is like I touched this sicko's psychosis.
Like a lot of people, I've been following the Zodiac case after seeing the Fincher film in '07.
Quote from: BadWolf on December 07, 2023, 10:31:35 AMI'm still trying to connect with a friend who worked in that building... :(
Bad Wolf,
I hope your friend is okay.
All the victims were faculty at UNLV.
Also apparently he kept a list of faculty at UNLV and Eastern Carolina University that he was "seeking"
https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/three-victims-in-unlv-shooting-were-faculty-members-officials-say
Given the identities of the victims, that he had been denied a job there, and the conspiracy theory rants I can't help but wonder if this was motivated by anti-DEI feelings.
My guess is that it was motivated by anti-everything. The secret world order, the reptilian aliens, the people who had denied him a job, everyone involved in the huge conspiracy that was (supposedly) behind everything that's wrong in the world.
I wonder what happened at East Carolina that meant he left the university in mid-year. And if he was 67 and still seeking teaching jobs, he was hard up for income, as also witnessed by the eviction notice on the door of his apartment.
Quote from: Hegemony on December 08, 2023, 02:46:00 AMMy guess is that it was motivated by anti-everything. The secret world order, the reptilian aliens, the people who had denied him a job, everyone involved in the huge conspiracy that was (supposedly) behind everything that's wrong in the world.
I wonder what happened at East Carolina that meant he left the university in mid-year. And if he was 67 and still seeking teaching jobs, he was hard up for income, as also witnessed by the eviction notice on the door of his apartment.
Yeah, this doesn't provide an exact answer about ECU, but it does paint a picture.
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/university-nevada-shooting-suspect-had-ties-north-carolina/44YDHICIPFDW7FWH2AID6CWRIA/
I do think I know the type-probably most of us do. Weird dude who has these oddly antagonistic relationships with students-whom he always seems to suspect of trying to sabotage him.
How did he last 16 years at East Carolina University?
Quote from: Langue_doc on December 08, 2023, 07:08:34 AMHow did he last 16 years at East Carolina University?
The publishing bar in terms of quantity isn't that high there. Once tenured, I'm guessing from what students said he was chatty, not a really hard grader and seemed just odd. He also did a ton of service work.
I'm guessing that he left as something went too far. He almost certainly was dinged at UNLV for being in rank that long with few pubs, and I'm guessing also the ECU recs were not great.
Oh, lets be honest here. We all know of some very odd profs who could probably cross the line into insanity, given enough stressors. They operate on the edge of competence. Sometimes they are publishing, sometimes they are teaching OK, and and sometimes they are doing service and getting along, but then enough bad events happen that threads start getting pulled just a bit too much, and too simultaneously.
So, I am quite sure that he was on the radar of more than a few people. Its just that you can get by as weird for two decades before that turns into "bat crap crazy." Or at least before it becomes enough "bcc" that someone could turn that into a reason for you to be removed from your job.
Quote from: jimbogumbo on December 08, 2023, 10:27:53 AMQuote from: Langue_doc on December 08, 2023, 07:08:34 AMHow did he last 16 years at East Carolina University?
The publishing bar in terms of quantity isn't that high there. Once tenured, I'm guessing from what students said he was chatty, not a really hard grader and seemed just odd. He also did a ton of service work.
I'm guessing that he left as something went too far. He almost certainly was dinged at UNLV for being in rank that long with few pubs, and I'm guessing also the ECU recs were not great.
The news articles I've seen have said that ECU said he was an assistant Professor, which doesn't really make that much sense? Can you be a non tenure track assistant professor?
Quote from: Caracal on December 08, 2023, 10:46:08 AMQuote from: jimbogumbo on December 08, 2023, 10:27:53 AMQuote from: Langue_doc on December 08, 2023, 07:08:34 AMHow did he last 16 years at East Carolina University?
The publishing bar in terms of quantity isn't that high there. Once tenured, I'm guessing from what students said he was chatty, not a really hard grader and seemed just odd. He also did a ton of service work.
I'm guessing that he left as something went too far. He almost certainly was dinged at UNLV for being in rank that long with few pubs, and I'm guessing also the ECU recs were not great.
The news articles I've seen have said that ECU said he was an assistant Professor, which doesn't really make that much sense? Can you be a non tenure track assistant professor?
Yes — my institution has rank but no tenure.
He was 67. That's retirement age. Why in the world would he try to get a job, after 16 years at a public compass point university. Between SS and whatever retirement plan he had at a regional public, it should be enough that he wouldn't need a job at the age of 67.
Quote from: lightning on December 08, 2023, 03:09:47 PMHe was 67. That's retirement age. Why in the world would he try to get a job, after 16 years at a public compass point university. Between SS and whatever retirement plan he had at a regional public, it should be enough that he wouldn't need a job at the age of 67.
Whenever one of these shooters survive they give bad explanations for their actions. They are in such a state of mind that they can't even describe what they were thinking, or their thoughts seem to be so superficial they can provide no real answers.
In his journals, Ethan Crumbly described his desire to hurt his classmates and hear their screams, and he explained that he was hearing voices. He seemed to have very typically adolescent angst and anger at his parents, and he wrote things like "I will have never maken (sic) a impact in this world. The ONLY way is to shoot up the school" and "I sometimes regret about doing the shooting. If I don't though, then what is there for me?"
He tortured animals and was "withdrawn" at school. His homelife was awful, apparently, and his parents were dicks, but that is nothing unusual.
So why would this 15 year old kid kill his classmates for fun?
There's not a good answer.
15 years in an untenured position in NC might get you *some* money in a retirement plan, or maybe modest state pension, but that and SS wouldn't be so great. Livable in some parts of North Carolina. Not livable in Henderson. So, why on Earth did he move to Nevada? Maybe its similar to stalking? He thought he was entitled to the job, so he moved there. Then he went after folks who slighted him (or were in the way when he was looking for people who slighted him).
It just seems odd, but without anything written we know of (though I suspect some ranting emails will come to light) , we may never know. And as others have just said, even if he were around to tell us, its not as though he'd definitely be insightful. Maybe. Maybe not.
Quote from: lightning on December 08, 2023, 03:09:47 PMHe was 67. That's retirement age. Why in the world would he try to get a job, after 16 years at a public compass point university. Between SS and whatever retirement plan he had at a regional public, it should be enough that he wouldn't need a job at the age of 67.
Only thirteen years at a job that probably didn't pay all that well would not be enough to take one comfortably into retirement, I would think. I'd guess he went for an academic job because that's the thing he could do. It's unclear what he did for the six (?) years between his last job ending and this year. Maybe used up his savings. He sounds as if he was not that good at handling life, and his thinking was not that balanced, and he was getting desperate, so you have it. Many men in our culture externalize their fear and despair into violence.
Its not just violence, but clearly he was under some sort of paranoid delusion. Or it could be a simple as applying for a job, not getting it, and then he just got pissed off that he didn't get it, regardless of how little he was really ever seriously considered. Still, even that seems to have some element of delusion.
Quote from: Hegemony on December 08, 2023, 06:56:13 PMQuote from: lightning on December 08, 2023, 03:09:47 PMHe was 67. That's retirement age. Why in the world would he try to get a job, after 16 years at a public compass point university. Between SS and whatever retirement plan he had at a regional public, it should be enough that he wouldn't need a job at the age of 67.
Only thirteen years at a job that probably didn't pay all that well would not be enough to take one comfortably into retirement, I would think. I'd guess he went for an academic job because that's the thing he could do. It's unclear what he did for the six (?) years between his last job ending and this year. Maybe used up his savings. He sounds as if he was not that good at handling life, and his thinking was not that balanced, and he was getting desperate, so you have it. Many men in our culture externalize their fear and despair into violence.
He apparently was an adjunct faculty member at Roseman University in Henderson in their MBA program until they discontinued the program in June 2022.
That might explain why he was in the Vegas area, or at least explain some employment he got once he decided to move there. I guess there doesn't need to be a real reason. Its not as if he's the only dude who wanted to move to Vegas (I'm not into it).
He was mentally ill, based on the crazy postings.
Full stop.
Yeah, I can get behind that diagnosis.
The publication list was what one might conservatively call "well padded". The few actual journal articles were often in The American Academy of Business Journal (http://www.jaabc.com/journalpreview.html). That journal site looks unlike any journal site I have seen, legit or dodgy. Is it a predatory journal? A team effort by an outsider group of business professors? An unpleasant hallucination?
Quote from: Caracal on December 08, 2023, 10:46:08 AMQuote from: jimbogumbo on December 08, 2023, 10:27:53 AMQuote from: Langue_doc on December 08, 2023, 07:08:34 AMHow did he last 16 years at East Carolina University?
The publishing bar in terms of quantity isn't that high there. Once tenured, I'm guessing from what students said he was chatty, not a really hard grader and seemed just odd. He also did a ton of service work.
I'm guessing that he left as something went too far. He almost certainly was dinged at UNLV for being in rank that long with few pubs, and I'm guessing also the ECU recs were not great.
The news articles I've seen have said that ECU said he was an assistant Professor, which doesn't really make that much sense? Can you be a non tenure track assistant professor?
He was a tenured associate professor at ECU.
Quote from: ciao_yall on December 09, 2023, 08:35:39 AMHe was mentally ill, based on the crazy postings.
Full stop.
This is the problem with looking for origin stories or rationales in these most terrible instances.
Do people regularly put conference attendance on their CVs? I only list conferences that I have presented or had a poster at.
Quote from: Hibush on December 09, 2023, 11:51:45 AMThe publication list was what one might conservatively call "well padded". The few actual journal articles were often in The American Academy of Business Journal (http://www.jaabc.com/journalpreview.html). That journal site looks unlike any journal site I have seen, legit or dodgy. Is it a predatory journal? A team effort by an outsider group of business professors? An unpleasant hallucination?
Wow, that journal website is almost hallucinatory. It screams "scammy predatory journal," whether it is one or not.
Quote from: larix on December 08, 2023, 09:46:07 PMQuote from: Hegemony on December 08, 2023, 06:56:13 PMQuote from: lightning on December 08, 2023, 03:09:47 PMHe was 67. That's retirement age. Why in the world would he try to get a job, after 16 years at a public compass point university. Between SS and whatever retirement plan he had at a regional public, it should be enough that he wouldn't need a job at the age of 67.
Only thirteen years at a job that probably didn't pay all that well would not be enough to take one comfortably into retirement, I would think. I'd guess he went for an academic job because that's the thing he could do. It's unclear what he did for the six (?) years between his last job ending and this year. Maybe used up his savings. He sounds as if he was not that good at handling life, and his thinking was not that balanced, and he was getting desperate, so you have it. Many men in our culture externalize their fear and despair into violence.
He apparently was an adjunct faculty member at Roseman University in Henderson in their MBA program until they discontinued the program in June 2022.
It is possible that he spent down his retirement during his adjunct years or gambled it away.
Where did people find his CV?
Seems possible (although, as we said before, it seems likely he really didn't have much to gamble).
I suppose he could have done something stupid like cash out his 403b, which maybe had a couple of hundred thousand, take the penalties, and then gamble, thinking he had "a system." Brilliant business professor there.
Quote from: MarathonRunner on December 09, 2023, 03:32:14 PMDo people regularly put conference attendance on their CVs? I only list conferences that I have presented or had a poster at.
No, most people only put presentations on their CVs. That is padding on padding. This guy definitely had some self-esteem issues.
Quote from: lightning on December 10, 2023, 06:26:11 AMWhere did people find his CV?
I posted a link to it from a CNN story.
Quote from: jimbogumbo on December 10, 2023, 12:33:24 PMQuote from: lightning on December 10, 2023, 06:26:11 AMWhere did people find his CV?
I posted a link to it from a CNN story.
www.tonypolito.com
It's in there. Note the extraordinary mass of random extraneous crap. This guy was definitely a manic.
Quote from: Wahoo Redux on December 10, 2023, 02:22:55 PMQuote from: jimbogumbo on December 10, 2023, 12:33:24 PMQuote from: lightning on December 10, 2023, 06:26:11 AMWhere did people find his CV?
I posted a link to it from a CNN story.
www.tonypolito.com
It's in there. Note the extraordinary mass of random extraneous crap. This guy was definitely a manic.
thanks. I missed it the first time around.
the tripod template and the baby blue background color . . .
Yes, even without the later problems that obviously developed, he comes across as a manic guy, low on the academic ladder and desperate to shore up his self-esteem. I'm surprised the Oxford Round Table isn't on there somewhere (or maybe it is). We actually had someone very much like that on our faculty, and he collected guns and had a shooting galley in his back yard. I think when a man feels desperately powerless, guns may seem to give him the illusion of power. But not the right kind of power.
Yes, but a lot going on in the world will show him that dudes with guns can get a lot done, even if doing so means killing innocents. Not that I approve! But I can see how a twisted person can do such things under such justification. It is curious to me that this is a very dominantly male phenomenon. Of the mass shootings of the last few years I only recall two or three women as perpetrators, and only one seemed to be acting alone in a spree, similar to the males (I believe, in Nashville, last spring).
Quote from: Ruralguy on December 10, 2023, 07:49:05 PMYes, but a lot going on in the world will show him that dudes with guns can get a lot done, even if doing so means killing innocents. Not that I approve! But I can see how a twisted person can do such things under such justification. It is curious to me that this is a very dominantly male phenomenon. Of the mass shootings of the last few years I only recall two or three women as perpetrators, and only one seemed to be acting alone in a spree, similar to the males (I believe, in Nashville, last spring).
One observation, based on lots of reading about male and female use and abuse of power, and having had kids of both sexes; men deal with conflict physically, women deal with it psychologically. Gangs is the male example of aggression; "mean girls" is the female example. Angry men destroy lives; angry women destroy reputations.
Both in their unrestrained forms can do incredible damage.
I get all that.
But mass shooter incidents, especially those with automatic rifles, and not against a particular person or family,
are *very* male, mostly younger males (although the disaffected older dude thing seems to be a thing now).
A possible reason he left ECU. Not really surprising: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/unlv-gunman-resigned-professor-ecu-making-sexual-comment-rcna128841
Incel or paid for sex seems to be part of the equation for many of them. Can't form normal-enough relationships due to their extreme weirdness, which leads to resentment and rage at those who they thing wronged them.
Quote from: Ruralguy on December 11, 2023, 07:04:55 AMI get all that.
But mass shooter incidents, especially those with automatic rifles, and not against a particular person or family,
are *very* male, mostly younger males (although the disaffected older dude thing seems to be a thing now).
Jeepers creepers. 'The woman, who asked to remain anonymous, previously told NBC News that Polito pursued her for nearly an entire semester, contacting her almost every day through email and texts and buying her gifts. "I felt preyed upon," she said."
And:
"...she also said she complained about how unconventional Polito's class was, noting he rarely stuck to the course topic, but would focus instead on Las Vegas."
(All from the NBC article.)
It's clear he had lost any perspective on appropriate behavior. And was somehow obsessed with Las Vegas.
Quote from: Hegemony on December 12, 2023, 12:52:01 AMJeepers creepers. 'The woman, who asked to remain anonymous, previously told NBC News that Polito pursued her for nearly an entire semester, contacting her almost every day through email and texts and buying her gifts. "I felt preyed upon," she said."
And:
"...she also said she complained about how unconventional Polito's class was, noting he rarely stuck to the course topic, but would focus instead on Las Vegas."
(All from the NBC article.)
It's clear he had lost any perspective on appropriate behavior. And was somehow obsessed with Las Vegas.
I don't want to hijack, but what does a faculty member do when they hear someone else check one of the above boxes? For example, I've heard a guy (whose office and occasional classroom are near mine) say comments similar to the "a low cut outfit gets an A in my class). Or "what the F%^# is wrong with you?" when a student wears a Kiss shirt and doesn't listen to Kiss, or offers them candy when they come to mandatory office hours. To me, his behavior is unprofessional and objectionable — but what if they students don't find him such? I certainly don't think he's a conspiracy theorist or hoarding guns, but I do think he's capable of getting drunk with his male students and ogle sorority girls. What's elevates my concerns from prurient gossip to something worth documenting?
Quote from: RatGuy on December 12, 2023, 06:23:26 AMQuote from: Hegemony on December 12, 2023, 12:52:01 AMJeepers creepers. 'The woman, who asked to remain anonymous, previously told NBC News that Polito pursued her for nearly an entire semester, contacting her almost every day through email and texts and buying her gifts. "I felt preyed upon," she said."
And:
"...she also said she complained about how unconventional Polito's class was, noting he rarely stuck to the course topic, but would focus instead on Las Vegas."
(All from the NBC article.)
It's clear he had lost any perspective on appropriate behavior. And was somehow obsessed with Las Vegas.
I don't want to hijack, but what does a faculty member do when they hear someone else check one of the above boxes? For example, I've heard a guy (whose office and occasional classroom are near mine) say comments similar to the "a low cut outfit gets an A in my class). Or "what the F%^# is wrong with you?" when a student wears a Kiss shirt and doesn't listen to Kiss, or offers them candy when they come to mandatory office hours. To me, his behavior is unprofessional and objectionable — but what if they students don't find him such? I certainly don't think he's a conspiracy theorist or hoarding guns, but I do think he's capable of getting drunk with his male students and ogle sorority girls. What's elevates my concerns from prurient gossip to something worth documenting?
I would absolutely report the comment about a low cut outfit getting an A-- in fact, in the US you are legally mandated to report any sexual harassment you witness to your institution's title 9 office.
In isolation (i.e., if this was another person) the other things you note don't seem obviously problematic though. Presuming the t-shirt comment was said jokingly, not actually swearing *at* the student in a serious way--unless you are at a very conservative religious university you are hardly going to shock the students, who sprinkle these words throughout everyday conversation. It could just be a way of relating to the students.
As to handing out candy, I don't really understand how that is unprofessional? Tons of faculty (me included) keep snacks in our offices to offer students during office hours- it can be a great way to make them feel welcome (plus sometimes they really need a free snack- many students are food insecure).
Quote from: RatGuy on December 12, 2023, 06:23:26 AMQuote from: Hegemony on December 12, 2023, 12:52:01 AMJeepers creepers. 'The woman, who asked to remain anonymous, previously told NBC News that Polito pursued her for nearly an entire semester, contacting her almost every day through email and texts and buying her gifts. "I felt preyed upon," she said."
And:
"...she also said she complained about how unconventional Polito's class was, noting he rarely stuck to the course topic, but would focus instead on Las Vegas."
(All from the NBC article.)
It's clear he had lost any perspective on appropriate behavior. And was somehow obsessed with Las Vegas.
I don't want to hijack, but what does a faculty member do when they hear someone else check one of the above boxes? For example, I've heard a guy (whose office and occasional classroom are near mine) say comments similar to the "a low cut outfit gets an A in my class). Or "what the F%^# is wrong with you?" when a student wears a Kiss shirt and doesn't listen to Kiss, or offers them candy when they come to mandatory office hours. To me, his behavior is unprofessional and objectionable — but what if they students don't find him such? I certainly don't think he's a conspiracy theorist or hoarding guns, but I do think he's capable of getting drunk with his male students and ogle sorority girls. What's elevates my concerns from prurient gossip to something worth documenting?
This. This is worth documenting.
QuotePolito pursued her for nearly an entire semester, contacting her almost every day through email and texts and buying her gifts. "I felt preyed upon."
Quote from: Puget on December 12, 2023, 06:34:20 AMI would absolutely report the comment about a low cut outfit getting an A-- in fact, in the US you are legally mandated to report any sexual harassment you witness to your institution's title 9 office.
FWIW, when he said that a low-cut shirt would make an A in his course, he was speaking to a male student. I have no way of knowing if he was referencing a specific student's outfit. And even if he were discussing student work (an essay about dating at the university, for example) I'm prudish enough to find that "see professors are dudes too" comment objectionable. Ditto commenting on any student outfit, even a KISS shirt.
As far as the candy goes, I'd call it "plying" rather than "offering."
At the very least, you document everything, including the date and anything else to put the day in context.
If the comments are sexualized or discriminatory, use your institutions written policy (all have one now) on how to handle such matters (usually there's a designated intake person).
If you are afraid that will escalate things too fast, contact the faculty member's chair or supervisory dean.
But in my person view, use the process. That's what its there for.
There's also, by the way, the faculty review process. if so-and-so the mild harasser is up for tenure, full, or even post tenure review, then mention it to T&P people.
I met Polito at a conference many moons ago, at a time when I was withdrawing my name from several searches because I'd accepted an offer. He asked what job I'd got, and when I told him, there was this long pause ... and then he told me he'd thought he was still a candidate for it.
I think he may have actually applied at my place several years later (I served on several search committees and the names run together). He wouldn't have cleared even the first hurdle, because the scholarship was thin, thin, thin. He had only one article that would have been on our list. It's in the "Pretty Damn Good" category, but the expectation is even a freshly minted PhD would already have something at that level (or better).
Quote from: RatGuy on December 12, 2023, 07:22:02 AMQuote from: Puget on December 12, 2023, 06:34:20 AMI would absolutely report the comment about a low cut outfit getting an A-- in fact, in the US you are legally mandated to report any sexual harassment you witness to your institution's title 9 office.
FWIW, when he said that a low-cut shirt would make an A in his course, he was speaking to a male student. I have no way of knowing if he was referencing a specific student's outfit. And even if he were discussing student work (an essay about dating at the university, for example) I'm prudish enough to find that "see professors are dudes too" comment objectionable. Ditto commenting on any student outfit, even a KISS shirt.
As far as the candy goes, I'd call it "plying" rather than "offering."
How is it at all relevant that he was speaking to a male student? Sexual harassment can apply to any gender. Whether he was targeting the student he was talking to, or talking about other students, this is still reportable. What happens after you report is out of your hands-- it doesn't mean any action will be taken against him, but it will be documented, and you will have done your legal and ethical duty.
As for the rest, of course context matters. You know the context best, and I'm sure those things *could* be part of a problematic pattern. I was just saying in and of themselves they don't seem particularly problematic. I wouldn't go around assuming nefarious intent about every professor who has a candy bowl in their office.
Quote from: RatGuy on December 12, 2023, 07:22:02 AMFWIW, when he said that a low-cut shirt would make an A in his course, he was speaking to a male student. I have no way of knowing if he was referencing a specific student's outfit.
Nope. He was
not directing these remarks to a male student. The student's name is given in the article — her first name is Kristin — I won't repeat her whole name because I don't want this discussion to come up if someone googles her. But her photo, which is also in the article, clearly shows that she is female.
'Kristin [surname] said she was sitting in the front row of Anthony Polito's business course at East Carolina University in Greenville, North Carolina, in 2016 when he walked in and made the remark. "He said to me that if I wore a shirt that low cut for the rest of the semester, I'd be sure to get an A," [student], now 28, told NBC News.'
As for what you do when you hear another faculty member make a comment like that — you say, "Whoa, dude, that's out of line. I don't want you to get in trouble for sexual harassment, and that remark could do it." They may laugh it off, but now they know someone has noticed.
And as for the students "not minding" the remarks — they may not
show that they mind, but remember that people in less powerful positions — especially women — typically conceal their reactions because they know that voicing an objection will likely cause them even more problems. But that doesn't mean that they're not bothered. When a prof makes offensive remarks like that, a female student makes a rapid series of calculations. She must never be caught in a room alone with the man, because he will try more. She should not visit his office hours for that reason, so getting extra help in the class is now harder. She must not ask him to write a recommendation, because who knows what he'll try to ask for in return? In my experience — and the experience of many women — man who make sexual remarks do it repeatedly, and often try to go further. And the student knows that in some cases — as in this one — the harasser can turn vindictive, and violently so. Better to pretend to be unperturbed. But not saying anything in the moment doesn't mean the student feels it's all harmless and good sexual-harassment fun.
To my mind there is nothing she could/would have said or done (even going off to Vegas with him, or marrying him and living happily ever after) that would retroactively have made this a good choice of words for Polito. He was inappropriate and wrong. No doubts. Of course now we know he was a crazy murderous slime-ball, so sexual harassment hardly seems surprising as part of this guy's pathetic repertoire.
Quote from: RatGuy on December 12, 2023, 06:23:26 AMQuote from: Hegemony on December 12, 2023, 12:52:01 AMJeepers creepers. 'The woman, who asked to remain anonymous, previously told NBC News that Polito pursued her for nearly an entire semester, contacting her almost every day through email and texts and buying her gifts. "I felt preyed upon," she said."
And:
"...she also said she complained about how unconventional Polito's class was, noting he rarely stuck to the course topic, but would focus instead on Las Vegas."
(All from the NBC article.)
It's clear he had lost any perspective on appropriate behavior. And was somehow obsessed with Las Vegas.
I don't want to hijack, but what does a faculty member do when they hear someone else check one of the above boxes? For example, I've heard a guy (whose office and occasional classroom are near mine) say comments similar to the "a low cut outfit gets an A in my class). Or "what the F%^# is wrong with you?" when a student wears a Kiss shirt and doesn't listen to Kiss, or offers them candy when they come to mandatory office hours. To me, his behavior is unprofessional and objectionable — but what if they students don't find him such? I certainly don't think he's a conspiracy theorist or hoarding guns, but I do think he's capable of getting drunk with his male students and ogle sorority girls. What's elevates my concerns from prurient gossip to something worth documenting?
Isn't the sexual harassment workshop (or something similar) mandated at your institutions? In our state, if a professor or other employee continues to make inappropriate comments after being asked to stop those comments would be considered to be sexual harassment, as would comments that are clearly sexual in nature. What is considered sexual harassment in the workplace changed drastically after our former gov was forced to resign. Now, harassment has to be reported within a certain time frame--I think it is 6 months or so. If the victim fails to report the incident(s), then there is no recourse. Under the new guidelines, former gov wouldn't have had to resign as most of the allegations go back several years and were not reported until recently. I recall that employees who overhear comments of a sexual nature are likewise mandated to report these.