WSJ: Fewer men enrolling in college

[ciao_yall]

From this morning's WSJ - Men dropping out/not enrolling in college.

Are we seeing/experiencing this trend?

[marshwiggle]

From the article:

American colleges, which are embroiled in debates over racial and gender equality, and working on ways to reduce sexual assault and harassment of women on campus, have yet to reach a consensus on what might slow the retreat of men from higher education. Some schools are quietly trying programs to enroll more men, but there is scant campus support for spending resources to boost male attendance and retention.

That's a surprisingly astute analysis.

[ciao_yall]

My sense?

With more women and people of color filling faculty roles, colleges are devaluing the full-time, tenured professor job. So it's no longer a good career option in terms of pay and accomplishment.

Men have better options in other career paths, so younger men coming up don't see themselves in the classroom.

And colleges are turning into marginalized spaces.

[Aster]

Maybe one gender is just a bit better at committing to intellectual pursuits.

But that gender didn't achieve choice-equity into those pursuits until recently.

[marshwiggle]

My sense?

With more women and people of color filling faculty roles, colleges are devaluing the full-time, tenured professor job. So it's no longer a good career option in terms of pay and accomplishment.

If this only applies to those fields where most of the jobs are in academia, then fewer people going into them is a good thing since they have a surplus at present. However, if they're in professional fields which society needs and most of the jobs are outside academia, then unless enough women replace them, this could lead to a shortage in the future.

Men have better options in other career paths, so younger men coming up don't see themselves in the classroom.

Given that the two young men interviewed in the article were doing warehouse-type work, that's not clear. (And THEY didn't see their current jobs as long-term.)

[dismalist]

Far be it from me to call the WSJ alarmist, but the way facts are presented entices one to focus on the differences between men and women instead of evolution over time.

College enrollment has been falling absolutely since about 2010 for both men and women. The absolute difference between men and women enrolled has stayed fairly constant since 2010.The hit is taken 2-year colleges. [All through 2019, leaving out Covid.] https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/education/higher-education/college-enrollment/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwm9yJBhDTARIsABKIcGZ-Xe6gtFZFxeGK2PeLv1UEkjWLnH9yUP6RFsDqeRP0lclgGvB-XVcaAmVjEALw_wcB

So, the male female differential is hardly news but the question of why 2-year enrollments are falling is worth asking.

[Langue_doc]

I've been assigning readings on the gender gap in colleges for at least  10 years. Here are a couple from the NYTimes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/education/09college.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/fashion/07campus.html

Disclaimer: haven't read the WSJ article yet.

[Hegemony]

With more women and people of color filling faculty roles, colleges are devaluing the full-time, tenured professor job. So it's no longer a good career option in terms of pay and accomplishment.

Men have better options in other career paths, so younger men coming up don't see themselves in the classroom.

But going to college doesn't translate into wanting to be a professor. This is not about boys heading into academia as a professor. This is about boys getting a college degree. The two things are entirely separate.

I'm surprised that none of these articles mention the differences in how boys and girls, or men and women, head into structured paths. More women also go to graduate school and professional school. In the last few decades in the U.S., women have preferred structured career paths, and men the less structured and the more entrepreneurial. This makes sense to me for several reasons. One is that women are brought up and socialized to abide by rules and structure, while men are brought up and socialized to be "independent" and "lone wolves" and value "freedom." You also see it in study-abroad numbers, which are even more strongly female: something like 80%/20% in some places. The boys say they will go abroad on their own after college, and not as a member of a structured group. The girls say they'll go as a member of a structured group and get the credit now. What the studies find, though, is that by and large the boys do not end up going after college. So in some senses the attitude of "I'll do it my way" is not very successful. Anyway, I see it as part of this phenomenon, which is larger than college attendance.

[ciao_yall]

With more women and people of color filling faculty roles, colleges are devaluing the full-time, tenured professor job. So it's no longer a good career option in terms of pay and accomplishment.

Men have better options in other career paths, so younger men coming up don't see themselves in the classroom.

But going to college doesn't translate into wanting to be a professor. This is not about boys heading into academia as a professor. This is about boys getting a college degree. The two things are entirely separate.

Agreed. My point is that young men go into the classroom and when the faculty are all women, it doesn't feel like college is a "manly" space.

[dismalist]

But going to college doesn't translate into wanting to be a professor. This is not about boys heading into academia as a professor. This is about boys getting a college degree. The two things are entirely separate.

Agreed. My point is that young men go into the classroom and when the faculty are all women, it doesn't feel like college is a "manly" space.

That starts in fourth grade! Just give the boys ritalin. :-)

[Hegemony]

Agreed. My point is that young men go into the classroom and when the faculty are all women, it doesn't feel like college is a "manly" space.

This is a vast oversimplification of the situation. And I don't know how the college-avoiding boys would know what gender their professors would be when they haven't even applied. In any case, the academy is still disproportionately male. "Among tenure-line faculty members, women make up 50.0 percent of assistant professors but only 45.0 percent of associate professors and 32.5 percent of full professors." (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=college+professors+by+gender) Couldn't find the stats for adjuncts quickly. But is it that thing that men have been shown to have, that they are so used to public life being disproportionately occupied by men that when there is a 50/50 gender balance, they perceive that as "overwhelmed by women"? Maybe, instead of deploring the success of women in achieving professorial rank, men should stop shooting themselves in the foot by declaring that they refuse to be part of a club where there are girls?

[Hibush]

In any case, the academy is still disproportionately male. "Among tenure-line faculty members, women make up 50.0 percent of assistant professors but only 45.0 percent of associate professors and 32.5 percent of full professors." (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=college+professors+by+gender) Couldn't find the stats for adjuncts quickly.

Many intro courses, which are students' first introduction to college, are taught by NTT faculty and other instructors. It seems worthwhile to know the gender proportion of instructors experienced by freshmen. It is hard to figure out from the NCES data because that does now show who is teaching the courses. 

[marshwiggle]

Maybe, instead of deploring the success of women in achieving professorial rank, men should stop shooting themselves in the foot by declaring that they refuse to be part of a club where there are girls?

Is there any concrete evidence that this happens to any significant degree?

(And by way of counterpoint, in many co-ed sports, it's usually hard to recruit women. So are they "shooting themselves in the foot by declaring that they refuse to be part of a club where there are" boys?)

[ciao_yall]

Agreed. My point is that young men go into the classroom and when the faculty are all women, it doesn't feel like college is a "manly" space.

This is a vast oversimplification of the situation. And I don't know how the college-avoiding boys would know what gender their professors would be when they haven't even applied. In any case, the academy is still disproportionately male. "Among tenure-line faculty members, women make up 50.0 percent of assistant professors but only 45.0 percent of associate professors and 32.5 percent of full professors." (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=college+professors+by+gender) Couldn't find the stats for adjuncts quickly. But is it that thing that men have been shown to have, that they are so used to public life being disproportionately occupied by men that when there is a 50/50 gender balance, they perceive that as "overwhelmed by women"? Maybe, instead of deploring the success of women in achieving professorial rank, men should stop shooting themselves in the foot by declaring that they refuse to be part of a club where there are girls?

Very wel put.

[dismalist]

"The last male will graduate form college in 2068."
                                                           --Unknown