WSJ: Fewer men enrolling in college

[mamselle]

Hunh?

Because the sun expands peremptorily and engulfs the earth then?

I don't get it.

M.

[dismalist]

Hunh?

Because the sun expands peremptorily and engulfs the earth then?

I don't get it.

M.

Trend. :-)

[spork]

The WSJ article is complete trash given its ignorance of easily obtainable data and its reliance on an unrepresentative example.

[liszt56]

While teaching at a fairly prestigious mostly liberal arts university, I was told that the decision to drop SAT requirements, promoted as a way to attract greater diversity (white/affluent students have greater access to test prep), was actually largely intended to help them recruit more men without having to report lower SAT score stats.

My son thought h.s. was a complete joke.  I couldn't argue with his logic - his highly competitive h.s. didn't strike me as much of an educational experience either.  He miraculously got into a top ranked university based on one particular area of knowledge and talent he refined on his own, with little help from any of his h.s. teachers who ignored him.  His h.s. class rank was about 50 percentile and he blew off even trying on the SAT.   His university runs average SATs in the 1500 range, students mostly in top 2-3% of their class.  It's a miracle he got in and he will graduate this year - otherwise, could have easily been like those in that article, floating around.

My daughter on the other hand, shares her brother's total disrespect for their h.s., but she is more willing to go along with it and play the game (while coming home every day with fresh stories about buffoon teachers).

Look at how many successful men dropped out of college (Gates, Jobs, etc). 

Not sure what the answer is, but the phenomenon is real.  I think some boys first get lost in middle school and it doesn't get much better in h.s. 

I nearly flunked 7th grade, thought my h.s. was a waste.  Ultimately settled down, two masters, PhD later was fine. I was socialized to play along but didn't like it.  I rebelled against corporate life, was a tech entrepreneur, retired early, did the PhD and academic career as sort of a hobby really. I think someone mentioned tolerance of structure and I agree.  It's also getting harder to convince youngsters of the credentialing benefits of college, now that they can get good coding jobs without a degree.

[quasihumanist]

It's also getting harder to convince youngsters of the credentialing benefits of college, now that they can get good coding jobs without a degree.

This is most definitely not it.

Yes, people with exceptional brains that are able to think in this way that most people cannot are able to get good coding jobs with or without a degree.

Sadly, this is an exceptional neurodivergence, probably about as common as, say, ASD (counting the whole spectrum).  It's not nearly enough to account for the statistics.

[liszt56]

It's also getting harder to convince youngsters of the credentialing benefits of college, now that they can get good coding jobs without a degree.

This is most definitely not it.

Yes, people with exceptional brains that are able to think in this way that most people cannot are able to get good coding jobs with or without a degree.

Sadly, this is an exceptional neurodivergence, probably about as common as, say, ASD (counting the whole spectrum).  It's not nearly enough to account for the statistics.

I agree the disconnect with boys and college is something bigger than just formal education relevance to writing code.

However, jump on Reddit sometime and read reviews and discussion of coding boot camps vs CS degrees.  I was stunned at how aggressively participants argue against wasting time and money doing college.  You would think a CS degree would be pretty easy to defend - on the other hand, how many people write an OS, vs web development, mobile, UI, things many young people often either learn on their own or through a boot camp.

My embedded code hires all had engineering degrees but some of the best stack and mobile code developers just picked it up without a relevant degree.  No problem, managers assess skill level - degrees are nice, but optional.

My kids are both going to college (although my son didn't really want to), so I get the value.  My kids also have zero college debt - I imagine debt is a big source of the frustration (and a different topic).

[liszt56]

Just now reading about Mailchimp acquisition.
Founder Ben Chestnut was networking to find a code writing cofounder and ended up with Dan Kurzius, no college degree, net worth now ~$6B based on the acquisition. 

"Dan Kurzius, a lapsed DJ then working in real estate...taught himself how to code, and went on to become Chestnut's tech and real estate partner."

[dismalist]

Not all men not going to college become coders. The question remains open: Why?

[marshwiggle]

Not all men not going to college become coders. The question remains open: Why?

Maybe it's kind of the contrapositive:

If you can learn to code and get a high paying job without higher education, why wouldn't you?

If getting a higher education is only going to get you a low paying job, why not just get a low paying job that doesn't pretend to require it?

[dismalist]

Not all men not going to college become coders. The question remains open: Why?

Maybe it's kind of the contrapositive:

If you can learn to code and get a high paying job without higher education, why wouldn't you?

If getting a higher education is only going to get you a low paying job, why not just get a low paying job that doesn't pretend to require it?

As I noted above, the drop in college male attendance is restricted to 2 year colleges. The wage premium of those with some college over high school has remained flat for the last thirty years. Can't imagine it has taken 30 years for the guys to figure out college doesn't pay for them. [Now, that flatness could well be caused by males not attending, keeping the premium up. :-)]

I tentatively conclude it ain't monetary income rewards keeping the boys out of college more and more. What, then?

[Hibush]

I tentatively conclude it ain't monetary income rewards keeping the boys out of college more and more. What, then?

As was mentioned earlier, there is a significant segment of the population that has for much of their teen years seen role models treat traits like competence, effort and knowledge as unmanly. They want to be manly.

If that affect 10% or so of these boys, it could contribute to their lack of interest in college that results in those.

[dismalist]

I tentatively conclude it ain't monetary income rewards keeping the boys out of college more and more. What, then?

As was mentioned earlier, there is a significant segment of the population that has for much of their teen years seen role models treat traits like competence, effort and knowledge as unmanly. They want to be manly.

If that affect 10% or so of these boys, it could contribute to their lack of interest in college that results in those.

Can't be: One has to be competent, expend effort, and gain knowledge outside of two-year colleges when one is working, too. And that has always been the case. So, why in the last thirty years?

[mahagonny]

Connecting the dots. If there's one thing the diversity industrial complex pointedly does not invite anyone to celebrate or respect, it is white maleness. College is the nerve center of diversity madness. I look forward to our having a shortage of enrollees, and deserving to.

ETA:
'Enroll in college. Borrow money; Get accused of harassment, privilege, improper smelling of hair, looking at people's breasts, date rape, cultural appropriation, being too stupid for anything but football, mansplaining...'

[financeguy]

This is not really surprising. The university has now embraced feminine values. Feels now trump facts. Also, women are "going to college" in the same way that someone who has a layover in LAX is "going to California." Technically true, but not really the whole story. Women by and large go to college for a social experience, disproportionately majoring in fluff subjects. When they do graduate with a real degree, they often stop working in the field as soon as a male provider comes along. 60 minutes did a story years ago about Harvard MBA females and how many of them are out of the workforce entirely within a decade of graduation. I think it's safe to say this particular subgroup of college females could be considered "very career motivated" so imagine what the fluff field degree recipient actually plans to do with her "education." It's a very expensive way to play the part of a "strong independent" woman without actually needing to be either of those things.

[spork]

How's living in your mom's basement going?