Can You Have a Rewarding Intellectual Life Outside Academe? CHE article

[polly_mer]

https://www.chronicle.com/article/Can-You-Have-a-Rewarding/247388/


Let the yelling begin.

[Wahoo Redux]

Why would anyone "yell"?

Many of us would be happy to be doing something like Dr. Hoffman's job.  I kind of dream about this sort of thing actually. 

This is one of those articles that states the obvious, but I like his story.  One does have to realize that there are not a great many jobs like this around.  Sadly.

[mahagonny]

At present I have a regularly stimulating creative life outside of academe and an occasionally stimulating one inside. The intellectual satisfactions I get from the college environment are sullied by the signs of mediocrity that my snobby mind looks for, finds, and snickers at.

I recall a few years ago at my daughter's graduation she introduced me to one of her favorite professors who (you know I'm going to say this, but it's true) turned out to be an adjunct.  He said 'wow! I've heard about you! You've got a job I'd like to have!' I answered 'which one?' We hit it off.

I could never see myself being attracted to a teaching job for the intellectual stimulation. I have learned to teach, and I keep a certain standard in my work that I can respect, but it's for money. I could just as easily drive an uber if it paid enough per hour.

[polly_mer]

Why would anyone "yell"?

The Twitterverse was very unhappy because so few people have situations like those described in the article and felt it ignored the realities of being part of the death-marching, warm bodies who are keeping many institutions open.

[marshwiggle]

Some of my favourite quotes:

I'd like to pose a different question here: Why is getting a tenure-track job still seen as the only way to lead a fulfilling life of inquiry in the humanities? More to the point: What do those of us who pursue a doctorate want to do to lead fulfilling lives as scholars?

Not looking to live just anywhere and also not interested in patching together a subsistence living of underpaying adjunct jobs, I decided to pivot and look for work outside of academe. The results have been exciting, rewarding, and eye-opening.

Adjunct teaching is not glamorous, but when it's not your main source of income, it can be gratifying work.

Definitely a refreshing read.

[Wahoo Redux]

Why would anyone "yell"?

The Twitterverse was very unhappy because so few people have situations like those described in the article and felt it ignored the realities of being part of the death-marching, warm bodies who are keeping many institutions open.

Well...I would say that these are accurate complaints.

Sure, it would be great if there were many viable industries outside academia which cater to, for lack of a better term at the moment, "the life of the mind," but there aren't really. 

Again, I think this article states the obvious (that one need not be in academia to have a fulfilling life of writing, reading, scholarship, and the arts) but it posits this in such a way that it makes it sound essentially routine ("I got tired of being an adjunct so I just went out and got work as a dramaturgist.  So can you!").  Nope.  No really.  Only the major metropolitan areas have flush professional theaters which hire people for jobs such as these.

This article, as heartfelt as it is, says nothing we don't already know and offers nothing really helpful.

[marshwiggle]

Again, I think this article states the obvious (that one need not be in academia to have a fulfilling life of writing, reading, scholarship, and the arts) but it posits this in such a way that it makes it sound essentially routine ("I got tired of being an adjunct so I just went out and got work as a dramaturgist.  So can you!").  Nope.  No really.  Only the major metropolitan areas have flush professional theaters which hire people for jobs such as these.

This article, as heartfelt as it is, says nothing we don't already know and offers nothing really helpful.

Oy. I think the point could be generalized to suggest there may be types of jobs out there that use many of the skills one expects to use in academia in some other context. I don't think the author was indeed suggesting that every unhappy PhD could, in fact, get a job as a dramaturgist.

[tuxthepenguin]

A few thoughts crossed my mind while reading that article:

Can you have a rewarding intellectual life inside academe? Most jobs involve teaching students that don't want to be there, doing service that is at best not quite worthless, and jumping through hoops to publish and get grants.

What about money? Maybe money isn't everything, but neither is your intellectual life.

This should be read by undergrads, not by faculty. I'm one of the lucky ones - I work at an R1, have tenure, have a very good salary by academic standards, and I would not recommend an academic career to anyone. It's not rational. The one argument that seems to be reasonable is that there's a lot of uncertainty when you're running your own business or working your way up the corporate ladder. If you're in the third year of undergrad considering grad school, those are way more stable paths than entering the lottery of the "life of the mind". You have to worry about getting into the right program, finishing the program, being able to work with the right faculty, securing a tenure track job, and securing tenure. At that point it's sort of an okay job, probably in a bad location, probably for a low salary. The "rewarding intellectual life" thing is a scam. Don't be a sucker.

[downer]

I have not read the article, and since the answer to the question is obviously yes, I'm not tempted.

Of course, if one's conception of intellectual life is going to lots of conferences, writing academic books, and publishing journal articles, then maybe not. But that would be a far too narrow conception.

Probably easier with an academic career, but I know one or two people with academic jobs who want to retire early so they can focus on writing.

[little bongo]

Jeez Louise, guys. It's "dramaturg" or "dramaturge," one with a hard "g" at the end and the other with a soft one.

It might be time to wield the FPE (Frying Pan of Enlightenment).

[marshwiggle]

Jeez Louise, guys. It's "dramaturg" or "dramaturge," one with a hard "g" at the end and the other with a soft one.

It might be time to wield the FPE (Frying Pan of Enlightenment).

In my defense, I was just copying and pasting from the post I was responding to.

[mahagonny]

Why would anyone "yell"?

The Twitterverse was very unhappy because so few people have situations like those described in the article and felt it ignored the realities of being part of the death-marching, warm bodies who are keeping many institutions open.

Well...I would say that these are accurate complaints.

Sure, it would be great if there were many viable industries outside academia which cater to, for lack of a better term at the moment, "the life of the mind," but there aren't really. 

Again, I think this article states the obvious (that one need not be in academia to have a fulfilling life of writing, reading, scholarship, and the arts) but it posits this in such a way that it makes it sound essentially routine ("I got tired of being an adjunct so I just went out and got work as a dramaturgist.  So can you!").  Nope.  No really.  Only the major metropolitan areas have flush professional theaters which hire people for jobs such as these.

This article, as heartfelt as it is, says nothing we don't already know and offers nothing really helpful.

It might be helpful for maintaining the status quo, i.e. normalizing adjunctification or growth of part time hiring as a solution.

[tuxthepenguin]

I have not read the article, and since the answer to the question is obviously yes, I'm not tempted.

I thought the article was worth reading. It's not so much about answering the question in the title as it is about one PhD's career. A better title would have been "I found a rewarding intellectual life outside academe". My gripe is that it's taken for granted that "intellectual" is necessary, and with a very specific definition of that term at that.

[mahagonny]

"But despite all the romantic notions attached to "the life of the mind," that wasn't the first time (or the last) that I heard a tenured scholar admit to feeling envious of a career outside of academe. They always say they feel beaten down by the academic system — more specifically, by heavy teaching loads, politicized faculty meetings, and ever-expanding campus bureaucracy."

And then he goes on to 'but we need to advocate for more tenure track positions' after saying they are onerous.

[Wahoo Redux]

Again, I think this article states the obvious (that one need not be in academia to have a fulfilling life of writing, reading, scholarship, and the arts) but it posits this in such a way that it makes it sound essentially routine ("I got tired of being an adjunct so I just went out and got work as a dramaturgist.  So can you!").  Nope.  No really.  Only the major metropolitan areas have flush professional theaters which hire people for jobs such as these.

This article, as heartfelt as it is, says nothing we don't already know and offers nothing really helpful.

Oy. I think the point could be generalized to suggest there may be types of jobs out there that use many of the skills one expects to use in academia in some other context. I don't think the author was indeed suggesting that every unhappy PhD could, in fact, get a job as a dramaturgist.

Reeeeeeaaaally Marshy?  You think?

How utterly perceptive!

Gosh you are smart.