Ron Srigley, of Laurentian University in Ontario, describes his own institution as "a retail scam" that provides students with "content-free" classes and degrees not worth the paper they're printed on. He speaks of rampant grade inflation, of having to give students a C or better on papers he wouldn't have passed at all years earlier, and of classes where only a tiny minority of students buy the books they're supposed to study. And more:
https://thewalrus.ca/pass-fail/
I've seen posters here complain about all of these sorts of things. But what Srigley describes is as egregious as anything seen at any for-profit diploma mill. Genuine question--does what he's describing here sound like what you see in your own experience, or can you say that the institution you work at still maintains better standards?
The average university is not a scam -- it's a signalling device which gets the graduates a higher income.
Little of it is about learning anything useful. Rather, it's to show that you can jump through hoops. Hence the ubiquitous pressure to make the jumping easier.
Here's an entertaining version of the hypothesis with evidence we all understand and with good questions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czlAWeO7JmM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czlAWeO7JmM)
Quote from: apl68 on September 01, 2021, 01:36:33 PM
Ron Srigley, of Laurentian University in Ontario, describes his own institution as "a retail scam" that provides students with "content-free" classes and degrees not worth the paper they're printed on. He speaks of rampant grade inflation, of having to give students a C or better on papers he wouldn't have passed at all years earlier, and of classes where only a tiny minority of students buy the books they're supposed to study. And more:
https://thewalrus.ca/pass-fail/
I've seen posters here complain about all of these sorts of things. But what Srigley describes is as egregious as anything seen at any for-profit diploma mill. Genuine question--does what he's describing here sound like what you see in your own experience, or can you say that the institution you work at still maintains better standards?
Hmmm... This is a 2020 article, "updating" a 2016 article, based on a 2015 article.
Much of it was written about UPEI, but it probably applies just as much to Laurentian, or to many institutions.
That's because it could probably have been written, with a few changes in the technology, about institutions in 1920, or 1916, or 1915, in London or Oxbridge or Paris...
The genre is old, almost as old as universities themselves.
Quote from: dr_codex on September 01, 2021, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: apl68 on September 01, 2021, 01:36:33 PM
Ron Srigley, of Laurentian University in Ontario, describes his own institution as "a retail scam" that provides students with "content-free" classes and degrees not worth the paper they're printed on. He speaks of rampant grade inflation, of having to give students a C or better on papers he wouldn't have passed at all years earlier, and of classes where only a tiny minority of students buy the books they're supposed to study. And more:
https://thewalrus.ca/pass-fail/
I've seen posters here complain about all of these sorts of things. But what Srigley describes is as egregious as anything seen at any for-profit diploma mill. Genuine question--does what he's describing here sound like what you see in your own experience, or can you say that the institution you work at still maintains better standards?
Hmmm... This is a 2020 article, "updating" a 2016 article, based on a 2015 article.
Much of it was written about UPEI, but it probably applies just as much to Laurentian, or to many institutions.
That's because it could probably have been written, with a few changes in the technology, about institutions in 1920, or 1916, or 1915, in London or Oxbridge or Paris...
The genre is old, almost as old as universities themselves.
Ah, in days of yore the parents in the drinking classes paid for the education of their offspring themselves. No government subsidy.
In research universities in these parts the cash was used to finance research. That's not where private and government money is going today.
It's mostly signalling. Do consider the argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czlAWeO7JmM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czlAWeO7JmM)
I couldn't finish the walrus article. Too depressing and too accurate. And every depressing trend they name has accelerated in my field. Of course if I ran a school it would be very small if it could run at all. Most would think it was too strict.
The real scam at Laurentian is how the upper admin took all the money and drove the institution into bankruptcy, then made it use corporate bankruptcy proceedings (all firsts in Canada; Laurentian is a public institution, like all reputable universities in this country).
Oh, and they literally lied (https://www.timminspress.com/opinion/columnists/unmaking-a-university-laurentians-insolvency?fbclid=IwAR0LnMkaoIZQclnwa37ak8uU5O0jjxWXAQ4LMOsroeE4lGUAKro5ymMxryo) about the institution's finances for years, putting out financial statements claiming surpluses when, in fact, they were running huge deficits. As fraud goes, that sounds pretty fraud-y to me.
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on September 01, 2021, 08:27:55 PM
The real scam at Laurentian is how the upper admin took all the money and drove the institution into bankruptcy, then made it use corporate bankruptcy proceedings (all firsts in Canada; Laurentian is a public institution, like all reputable universities in this country).
Oh, and they literally lied (https://www.timminspress.com/opinion/columnists/unmaking-a-university-laurentians-insolvency?fbclid=IwAR0LnMkaoIZQclnwa37ak8uU5O0jjxWXAQ4LMOsroeE4lGUAKro5ymMxryo) about the institution's finances for years, putting out financial statements claiming surpluses when, in fact, they were running huge deficits. As fraud goes, that sounds pretty fraud-y to me.
One mention of the problem which I read somewhere else as well.:
Quote
Most importantly, the letter acknowledged they had a strategy going back to before 2014 in the face of enrolment declines due to demographic shifts and financial shortfalls. They asserted the multi-million (figures vary but more than $100 million) modernization of campus buildings and a series of capital projects was based on a calculation "of build it and they will come" approach to student recruitment.
Never a good sign in any organization.
Quote from: apl68 on September 01, 2021, 01:36:33 PM
Ron Srigley, of Laurentian University in Ontario, describes his own institution as "a retail scam" that provides students with "content-free" classes and degrees not worth the paper they're printed on. He speaks of rampant grade inflation, of having to give students a C or better on papers he wouldn't have passed at all years earlier, and of classes where only a tiny minority of students buy the books they're supposed to study. And more:
https://thewalrus.ca/pass-fail/
While the article describes real issues, some parts strike me as being completely detached from reality and only reinforcing "the ivory tower" stereotypes.
E.g.
The same pattern was confirmed by textbook sales in a course from the previous year. I was teaching George Orwell's 1984, and I had ordered 230 copies based on enrolment numbers. At the end of term, the bookstore had sold only eighteen copies, a hit rate of about 8 percent.- mere expectation that most enrolled students will buy a book (that is not a specialized textbook) in a physical form from a specific bookstore shows complete lack of awareness. Furthermore, even if this was a 2015 article, Orwell's copyright in Canada would have been expired for years already allowing students (and instructor for that matter) to legally download the text.
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on September 01, 2021, 08:27:55 PM
The real scam at Laurentian is how the upper admin took all the money and drove the institution into bankruptcy, then made it use corporate bankruptcy proceedings (all firsts in Canada; Laurentian is a public institution, like all reputable universities in this country).
Oh, and they literally lied (https://www.timminspress.com/opinion/columnists/unmaking-a-university-laurentians-insolvency?fbclid=IwAR0LnMkaoIZQclnwa37ak8uU5O0jjxWXAQ4LMOsroeE4lGUAKro5ymMxryo) about the institution's finances for years, putting out financial statements claiming surpluses when, in fact, they were running huge deficits. As fraud goes, that sounds pretty fraud-y to me.
Thank you for the background. That explains a lot of what the first article was talking about.
Quote from: apl68 on September 02, 2021, 10:00:28 AM
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on September 01, 2021, 08:27:55 PM
The real scam at Laurentian is how the upper admin took all the money and drove the institution into bankruptcy, then made it use corporate bankruptcy proceedings (all firsts in Canada; Laurentian is a public institution, like all reputable universities in this country).
Oh, and they literally lied (https://www.timminspress.com/opinion/columnists/unmaking-a-university-laurentians-insolvency?fbclid=IwAR0LnMkaoIZQclnwa37ak8uU5O0jjxWXAQ4LMOsroeE4lGUAKro5ymMxryo) about the institution's finances for years, putting out financial statements claiming surpluses when, in fact, they were running huge deficits. As fraud goes, that sounds pretty fraud-y to me.
Thank you for the background. That explains a lot of what the first article was talking about.
Except that it doesn't. The original article describes experiences at a different institution.
Quote from: dismalist on September 01, 2021, 02:35:37 PM
The average university is not a scam -- it's a signalling device which gets the graduates a higher income.
Little of it is about learning anything useful. Rather, it's to show that you can jump through hoops. Hence the ubiquitous pressure to make the jumping easier.
Here's an entertaining version of the hypothesis with evidence we all understand and with good questions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czlAWeO7JmM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czlAWeO7JmM)
Call me old school, but I still think we can teach them critical thinking!
But we should probably do a study comparing education level with willingness to chug Ivermectin...just to be sure.
Quote from: Diogenes on September 02, 2021, 01:35:13 PM
Quote from: dismalist on September 01, 2021, 02:35:37 PM
The average university is not a scam -- it's a signalling device which gets the graduates a higher income.
Little of it is about learning anything useful. Rather, it's to show that you can jump through hoops. Hence the ubiquitous pressure to make the jumping easier.
Here's an entertaining version of the hypothesis with evidence we all understand and with good questions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czlAWeO7JmM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czlAWeO7JmM)
Call me old school, but I still think we can teach them critical thinking!
But we should probably do a study comparing education level with willingness to chug Ivermectin...just to be sure.
Try herbal medicines, too.
QuoteMore than one-third of respondents reported using herbal supplements. Older age and higher education were associated with a higher use of herbal supplements.
from here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5593261/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5593261/)
Correlation is not causation! :-)
Quote from: apl68 on September 01, 2021, 01:36:33 PM
Ron Srigley, of Laurentian University in Ontario, describes his own institution as "a retail scam" that provides students with "content-free" classes and degrees not worth the paper they're printed on. He speaks of rampant grade inflation, of having to give students a C or better on papers he wouldn't have passed at all years earlier, and of classes where only a tiny minority of students buy the books they're supposed to study. And more:
https://thewalrus.ca/pass-fail/
I've seen posters here complain about all of these sorts of things. But what Srigley describes is as egregious as anything seen at any for-profit diploma mill. Genuine question--does what he's describing here sound like what you see in your own experience, or can you say that the institution you work at still maintains better standards?
I read the article. He's just another late career guy who wishes it were the 1950's again, when he and his like bestrode the university like a colossus. It's time for him to hang it up and get on out the door.
Quote from: dismalist on September 02, 2021, 02:01:10 PM
Try herbal medicines, too. QuoteMore than one-third of respondents reported using herbal supplements. Older age and higher education were associated with a higher use of herbal supplements.
from here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5593261/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5593261/)
Correlation is not causation! :-)
Just an aside, that this reflects the anti-science crowd on the left, distinct from the anti-science crowd on the right.