The Conversation: Doing the Reading

[marshwiggle]

I'm not a fan of cold-calling to scare people into reading. If they have a ticket into class (like pre-writing or quizzing), you accomplish the same objective of preparedness, and then you can invite them into discussion with a very different class atmosphere that I find more conducive to learning. (Emma, we haven't heard much from you today. How did you analyze ___ in your paper?)

I don't see anything at all unreasonable about expecting students to be normally well-prepared enough to face a cold-calling such as Hegemony describes.  I admire Hegemony's willingness to hold students' feet to the fire.  However, I can see such tactics backfiring with some student populations.  I guess a lot depends on an instructor's ability to read what it takes for a given class.

As a good student, I would have found that intimidating. When I heard stories of profs who were supposed to have been very demanding, I avoided them whenever possible. I would guess I'm not unique in that. (It's the second result of the Dunning-Kruger effect research; the best students underestimate their relative performance because they don't realize how far they are above average.)

[jerseyjay]

It seems that complaining about students' not doing the reading is like complaining about the heat in summer: that it is perennial does not mean that it is not getting worse.

I went to a large state school. In my upper-level history and English classes, I do not think most people did all the readings. Some did not do any, many did some. I usually tried to at least look over the readings before class so at least I knew what they were about.

The difference between this and my students today is:
a) there was a sense that at least you were SUPPOSED to do the readings, even if you didn't. Today, my student act as if the readings are not even supposed to be read. I would never admit to not doing the readings, whereas now my students sometimes seem to assume that they are not really supposed to do them. (For an upper-level history course, there would be four or five monographs plus a reader of essays and primary sources. For a similar course today, I assign at most three monographs, and this is on the heavy side in my department.)

b) we would cram and do the readings right before the exam. Of course this is not optimal, but at least we did the readings, or at least part of them. My students do not do this either, and come to final exams without having done any of the reading. As has been noted, many of them are unable to do the reading, in the sense that their literacy is not high enough.

c) As a general rule, I did not do the readings because I was busy doing other things I preferred to do. Often I was reading something else that I found more enjoyable. Or I was involved in school activities. Today, most of my students do not do the readings because they are busy doing other things they have to do: working 50 hours a week, taking care of children, etc..

On the other hand, comparing my experience to my students is not really fair. I came from a professional family background (my parents both had master's degrees), and did not have to worry about keeping afloat the way my students do. My students come from lower economic backgrounds, worse schools, and have more immediate concerns. When I applied for an adjunct position at my alma mater, I was told the students read less, and are more busy, than 30 years ago, but I don't know this first hand.

In terms of what happens to my students if they don't read. Well, nothing immediate. Yes, their grades will suffer, and class discussion will be boring. But in terms of immediate consequences, there is not much. Shaming my students usually does not work, if for only reason you cannot shame somebody for doing the same thing everybody else does. It only makes the professor look more out of it.

[Langue_doc]

I'm not a fan of cold-calling to scare people into reading. If they have a ticket into class (like pre-writing or quizzing), you accomplish the same objective of preparedness, and then you can invite them into discussion with a very different class atmosphere that I find more conducive to learning. (Emma, we haven't heard much from you today. How did you analyze ___ in your paper?)

I don't see anything at all unreasonable about expecting students to be normally well-prepared enough to face a cold-calling such as Hegemony describes.  I admire Hegemony's willingness to hold students' feet to the fire.  However, I can see such tactics backfiring with some student populations.  I guess a lot depends on an instructor's ability to read what it takes for a given class.

As a good student, I would have found that intimidating. When I heard stories of profs who were supposed to have been very demanding, I avoided them whenever possible. I would guess I'm not unique in that. (It's the second result of the Dunning-Kruger effect research; the best students underestimate their relative performance because they don't realize how far they are above average.)

My students would have found cold-calling to be intimidating. I get them to read by assigning and grading reading responses. Pre-pandemic, reading response assignments were due 15 minutes before class. Reading responses that demonstrated familiarity with the readings and were written in complete sentences earn full credit.

[apl68]

I'm not a fan of cold-calling to scare people into reading. If they have a ticket into class (like pre-writing or quizzing), you accomplish the same objective of preparedness, and then you can invite them into discussion with a very different class atmosphere that I find more conducive to learning. (Emma, we haven't heard much from you today. How did you analyze ___ in your paper?)

I don't see anything at all unreasonable about expecting students to be normally well-prepared enough to face a cold-calling such as Hegemony describes.  I admire Hegemony's willingness to hold students' feet to the fire.  However, I can see such tactics backfiring with some student populations.  I guess a lot depends on an instructor's ability to read what it takes for a given class.

As a good student, I would have found that intimidating. When I heard stories of profs who were supposed to have been very demanding, I avoided them whenever possible. I would guess I'm not unique in that. (It's the second result of the Dunning-Kruger effect research; the best students underestimate their relative performance because they don't realize how far they are above average.)

My students would have found cold-calling to be intimidating. I get them to read by assigning and grading reading responses. Pre-pandemic, reading response assignments were due 15 minutes before class. Reading responses that demonstrated familiarity with the readings and were written in complete sentences earn full credit.

Though I don't question your sense that these reading-response assignments are necessary where you are, I'm glad that I went to college at a school where it was expected that students would just do the readings without routine reading-response assignments.  They sound unspeakably dull. 

[Langue_doc]

I'm not a fan of cold-calling to scare people into reading. If they have a ticket into class (like pre-writing or quizzing), you accomplish the same objective of preparedness, and then you can invite them into discussion with a very different class atmosphere that I find more conducive to learning. (Emma, we haven't heard much from you today. How did you analyze ___ in your paper?)

I don't see anything at all unreasonable about expecting students to be normally well-prepared enough to face a cold-calling such as Hegemony describes.  I admire Hegemony's willingness to hold students' feet to the fire.  However, I can see such tactics backfiring with some student populations.  I guess a lot depends on an instructor's ability to read what it takes for a given class.

As a good student, I would have found that intimidating. When I heard stories of profs who were supposed to have been very demanding, I avoided them whenever possible. I would guess I'm not unique in that. (It's the second result of the Dunning-Kruger effect research; the best students underestimate their relative performance because they don't realize how far they are above average.)

My students would have found cold-calling to be intimidating. I get them to read by assigning and grading reading responses. Pre-pandemic, reading response assignments were due 15 minutes before class. Reading responses that demonstrated familiarity with the readings and were written in complete sentences earn full credit.

Though I don't question your sense that these reading-response assignments are necessary where you are, I'm glad that I went to college at a school where it was expected that students would just do the readings without routine reading-response assignments.  They sound unspeakably dull.

It's a writing course that requires "close reading" of certain texts. The assignments, especially those on the discussion boards are far from dull as most of the students appear to be fully engaged based on their responses.

Students these days limit their reading to what they can read on their phones. I've had students complain that a three-page article/essay is too long. I've also had students confuse short stories with novels.

[ciao_yall]

I'm not a fan of cold-calling to scare people into reading. If they have a ticket into class (like pre-writing or quizzing), you accomplish the same objective of preparedness, and then you can invite them into discussion with a very different class atmosphere that I find more conducive to learning. (Emma, we haven't heard much from you today. How did you analyze ___ in your paper?)

I don't see anything at all unreasonable about expecting students to be normally well-prepared enough to face a cold-calling such as Hegemony describes.  I admire Hegemony's willingness to hold students' feet to the fire.  However, I can see such tactics backfiring with some student populations.  I guess a lot depends on an instructor's ability to read what it takes for a given class.

As a good student, I would have found that intimidating. When I heard stories of profs who were supposed to have been very demanding, I avoided them whenever possible. I would guess I'm not unique in that. (It's the second result of the Dunning-Kruger effect research; the best students underestimate their relative performance because they don't realize how far they are above average.)

My students would have found cold-calling to be intimidating. I get them to read by assigning and grading reading responses. Pre-pandemic, reading response assignments were due 15 minutes before class. Reading responses that demonstrated familiarity with the readings and were written in complete sentences earn full credit.

Though I don't question your sense that these reading-response assignments are necessary where you are, I'm glad that I went to college at a school where it was expected that students would just do the readings without routine reading-response assignments.  They sound unspeakably dull.

It's a writing course that requires "close reading" of certain texts. The assignments, especially those on the discussion boards are far from dull as most of the students appear to be fully engaged based on their responses.

Students these days limit their reading to what they can read on their phones. I've had students complain that a three-page article/essay is too long. I've also had students confuse short stories with novels.

I will start class by having small group discussions with targeted questions about the reading. That gets students focused on key points of the reading and talking to each other. And, peer pressure... nobody wants to be the one who didn't do the reading and is slowing down the group.

[apl68]

I'm not a fan of cold-calling to scare people into reading. If they have a ticket into class (like pre-writing or quizzing), you accomplish the same objective of preparedness, and then you can invite them into discussion with a very different class atmosphere that I find more conducive to learning. (Emma, we haven't heard much from you today. How did you analyze ___ in your paper?)

I don't see anything at all unreasonable about expecting students to be normally well-prepared enough to face a cold-calling such as Hegemony describes.  I admire Hegemony's willingness to hold students' feet to the fire.  However, I can see such tactics backfiring with some student populations.  I guess a lot depends on an instructor's ability to read what it takes for a given class.

As a good student, I would have found that intimidating. When I heard stories of profs who were supposed to have been very demanding, I avoided them whenever possible. I would guess I'm not unique in that. (It's the second result of the Dunning-Kruger effect research; the best students underestimate their relative performance because they don't realize how far they are above average.)

My students would have found cold-calling to be intimidating. I get them to read by assigning and grading reading responses. Pre-pandemic, reading response assignments were due 15 minutes before class. Reading responses that demonstrated familiarity with the readings and were written in complete sentences earn full credit.

Though I don't question your sense that these reading-response assignments are necessary where you are, I'm glad that I went to college at a school where it was expected that students would just do the readings without routine reading-response assignments.  They sound unspeakably dull.

It's a writing course that requires "close reading" of certain texts. The assignments, especially those on the discussion boards are far from dull as most of the students appear to be fully engaged based on their responses.

Students these days limit their reading to what they can read on their phones. I've had students complain that a three-page article/essay is too long. I've also had students confuse short stories with novels.

Those sorts of assignments do sound more interesting.  I had in mind little potted quizzes and reading response essays.

I remember students confusing memoirs with novels.

[kaysixteen]

I gotta repeat that, IMO, students today are much less likely to tolerate hegemony's actions, for a variety of reasons, likely including overall lesser ability to understand the readings, and adjunct professors are likely to face real repercussions for daring to act that way, nowadays.

[Aster]

It is not unusual for me to have classes with high failing rates because high numbers of students did not perform the minimum expected amount of reading.

If they choose not to read, they choose not to pass.

[marshwiggle]

It is not unusual for me to have classes with high failing rates because high numbers of students did not perform the minimum expected amount of reading.

If they choose not to read, they choose not to pass.

If it's clearly stated to the students at the beginning of the term that the midterms and exams are going to require familiarity with all the readings, beyond what was discussed in class, then this would certainly motivate the good students at least.

In terms of what happens to my students if they don't read. Well, nothing immediate. Yes, their grades will suffer, and class discussion will be boring. But in terms of immediate consequences, there is not much.

The "class discussion will be boring" argument is what I often hear. This wouldn't motivate me a lot as a good student, since among other things there's a strong network effect; if I'm the only one who has done the readings, "discussion" will consist of me answering the prof's questions. Since I can't control how many other people do the readings, what I do has a negligible effect on the class discussions.

[jerseyjay]

The "class discussion will be boring" argument is what I often hear. This wouldn't motivate me a lot as a good student, since among other things there's a strong network effect; if I'm the only one who has done the readings, "discussion" will consist of me answering the prof's questions. Since I can't control how many other people do the readings, what I do has a negligible effect on the class discussions.

It was meant more as an observation than an argument.

If a student does not do the reading, they will usually find the discussion because, well, they haven't done the reading.

If a student is the only one who has done the reading, they will find the discussion boring for the reasons you give.

If enough students have done the reading, the discussion will hopefully be more interesting to them because they are discussing the reading.

As a professor, I find it painful to lead a discussion about readings that nobody has done. I have in the past ended class if it is clear nobody has done the reading. But that has to be used carefully, and in any case not more than once per course per term.

When I was an undergraduate student, we had a seminar several days before Thanksgiving that nobody had read for. The professor got so frustrated he told us to go home and write a paper about the reading over Thanksgiving. But I do not think this would work so well in my school. First, because nobody actually shows up the week of Thanksgiving (even Monday classes), reading is so little done any way, and most of the students would probably not write the paper anyway, or write it without doing the reading.

[Hegemony]

I gotta repeat that, IMO, students today are much less likely to tolerate hegemony's actions, for a variety of reasons, likely including overall lesser ability to understand the readings, and adjunct professors are likely to face real repercussions for daring to act that way, nowadays.

It's true that I haven't taught in person in the last 18 months, but they tolerated my actions fine up till then. I do try to promote an inclusive atmosphere. "Anthony, help us out," I say, rather than, "Anthony, perform!" And everyone gets called on, not just people I suspect to be slackers. What I find is that once they've spoken in class, even just because they were called on, they're more likely to speak again later in the class. The ice has been broken. They also know that everyone has to be on their toes. I think being cold-called might actually come as a relief to some people who have something to say but who are too shy to volunteer. Sometimes a whole long thought about the text comes pouring out, as if they've had something to say and were bursting to say it, but just couldn't bring themselves to until they were asked. And, as I say, it puts the slackers on alert that not doing the reading is not inconspicuous.

[spork]

[. . . ]

I get them to read by assigning and grading reading responses. Pre-pandemic, reading response assignments were due 15 minutes before class. Reading responses that demonstrated familiarity with the readings and were written in complete sentences earn full credit.

Same here, except I make them due an hour before class starts. I don't want to read textual diarrhea written right before a student rushes to class. Students must also cite readings to earn full credit.

This thread reminded me of a histology professor at my doctoral alma mater who was famous for giving essay exams to med students.