Oberlin lose their appeal, still owe $32 million

[bacardiandlime]

CHE story

This is about the case where the college endorsed a student protest calling a local business racist, and administrators participated in leafleting.

[marshwiggle]

CHE story

This is about the case where the college endorsed a student protest calling a local business racist, and administrators participated in leafleting.

Virtue [signalling] is it's own reward.

[apl68]

Ordinarily college admins are bending-over-backwards careful to avoid getting pulled into stuff like this.  This shows why.  I guess Oberlin had to be different.

[marshwiggle]

Ordinarily college admins are bending-over-backwards careful to avoid getting pulled into stuff like this.  This shows why.  I guess Oberlin had to be different.

One thing I really hate is leaders of any political stripe launching an investigation into something and indicating as they launch it essentially what it is supposed to find. It undermines the whole process and confirms the mob's idea that there's no more to the story than the "facts" that are already widely publicized.

(At least if you don't bother with an investigation, then you're not even pretending to try to understand the situation better.)

[mamselle]

'Virtue signaling' suggests superficial behavior inconsistent with an entity's usual posture..

In this case, for a school that was among the first to admit blacks in 1835, and 5o graduate its first black student shortly thereafter, I'd say they're behaving more consistently with a longstanding inclusive tradition than anything else.

M. (Raised in Ohio, and have been to the campus, where friends attended)

[marshwiggle]

'Virtue signaling' suggests superficial behavior inconsistent with an entity's usual posture..

In this case, for a school that was among the first to admit blacks in 1835, and 5o graduate its first black student shortly thereafter, I'd say they're behaving more consistently with a longstanding inclusive tradition than anything else.

M. (Raised in Ohio, and have been to the campus, where friends attended)

From the court case:

According to the testimony admitted at the hearing, three African
American Oberlin students (one male and two females) were in the bakery while young Allyn wasworking. Young Allyn later informed the police that he confronted the male student because he believed that the student was shoplifting wine and using a fake I.D. to purchase more alcohol; that the male student fled the store; and young Allyn chased him across the street to apprehend and detain him for the police to arrive. When a police officer responded to the scene, he observed that
the two female students also became involved in the physical altercation between young Allyn and the male student. The police arrested the three students. The students eventually entered guilty pleas and were convicted for their roles in the incident.

and later

Because of the incident at the bakery, and in a claimed effort to appease the angry
students, Raimondo testified that she instructed a subordinate to contact the college's supplier of
food for its dining halls, Bon Appetit, and tell them to stop or halt supplying the college with food
from the bakery.

So does Oberlin's longstanding inclusive tradition include sanctioning local businesses for reporting criminal behaviour committed by students?

[mahagonny]

'Virtue signaling' suggests superficial behavior inconsistent with an entity's usual posture..

In this case, for a school that was among the first to admit blacks in 1835, and 5o graduate its first black student shortly thereafter, I'd say they're behaving more consistently with a longstanding inclusive tradition than anything else.

M. (Raised in Ohio, and have been to the campus, where friends attended)

From the court case:

According to the testimony admitted at the hearing, three African
American Oberlin students (one male and two females) were in the bakery while young Allyn wasworking. Young Allyn later informed the police that he confronted the male student because he believed that the student was shoplifting wine and using a fake I.D. to purchase more alcohol; that the male student fled the store; and young Allyn chased him across the street to apprehend and detain him for the police to arrive. When a police officer responded to the scene, he observed that
the two female students also became involved in the physical altercation between young Allyn and the male student. The police arrested the three students. The students eventually entered guilty pleas and were convicted for their roles in the incident.

and later

Because of the incident at the bakery, and in a claimed effort to appease the angry
students, Raimondo testified that she instructed a subordinate to contact the college's supplier of
food for its dining halls, Bon Appetit, and tell them to stop or halt supplying the college with food
from the bakery.

So does Oberlin's longstanding inclusive tradition include sanctioning local businesses for reporting criminal behaviour committed by students?

Why rest on your laurels?

[secundem_artem]

Personally, I'm enjoying the schadenfreude.

[apl68]

Although I'm sure the administrator in question felt that the action was in keeping with Oberlin's finest traditions, this piece of activism does appear to have been very ill-chosen, as it appears to have taken the form of a dogpile persecution of a business that seems at worst to have been guilty of not handling a shoplifting issue very well.  Displays of righteous indignation that target others need to be very carefully considered and proportionate, or they're not going to help anything.

[marshwiggle]

Although I'm sure the administrator in question felt that the action was in keeping with Oberlin's finest traditions, this piece of activism does appear to have been very ill-chosen, as it appears to have taken the form of a dogpile persecution of a business that seems at worst to have been guilty of not handling a shoplifting issue very well.

Unless I missed something, the complaints were all about "racial profiling" (rather than some sort of violent detainment) and since the students confessed, unless someone wants to argue the confessions were coerced, then I can't see how the students were any sort of "victims" of anything.


(And even on the racial profiling accusation, since Gibson's has been there for 130 years, I'd imagine there have been a lot of non-white Oberlin students who have gone there overs the years whose experience would  illustrate whatever pattern of treatment exists. Somehow I'd be surprised if most black students who go into the place get accused of shoplifting.)

[jimbogumbo]

You do realize there was the complaint filed, the students' claims, then the leafleting, then some time later the pleas?

mamselle is correct that supporting the students was consist with Oberlin's mission and values. What the administrator did was silly, and I'm actually a little stunned the college didn't succeed in arguing that the admin acted as an individual, rather than as an agent of the college.

Don't get me wrong. I think that is the correct ruling. I'm still surprised.

[marshwiggle]

You do realize there was the complaint filed, the students' claims, then the leafleting, then some time later the pleas?

This is an example of what I described earlier of taking a position LONG BEFORE any investigation is complete, rather than waiting until all the facts of the case have been established.

For any academic, who claims to care something about facts and evidence, it's unprofessional and idiotic.

[mahagonny]

You do realize there was the complaint filed, the students' claims, then the leafleting, then some time later the pleas?

This is an example of what I described earlier of taking a position LONG BEFORE any investigation is complete, rather than waiting until all the facts of the case have been established.

For any academic, who claims to care something about facts and evidence, it's unprofessional and idiotic.

This particular kind of academic culture (Oberlin) doesn't really have a choice, if (likely) they have already committed themselves to the position that white-against-black racism is lurking everywhere and routinely denied. They aren't even repentant after having it drummed into their thick skulls (to the tune of $32 million) that they have hurt innocent people. I rate it something worse than unprofessional and idiotic.
Calling people racist when you have no idea what you're talking about is irresponsible and mean. Doing it because it's in style is even worse.
And a belated thank you to writing prof. As one character said in "The Green Mile" I wish I'd met you somewhere else.

[apl68]

You do realize there was the complaint filed, the students' claims, then the leafleting, then some time later the pleas?

This is an example of what I described earlier of taking a position LONG BEFORE any investigation is complete, rather than waiting until all the facts of the case have been established.

For any academic, who claims to care something about facts and evidence, it's unprofessional and idiotic.

Yes.  Oberlin's students were in this case guilty of the worst sort of excessive rush to judgement, and the grown-ups at the college who should have been exercising a moderating influence were egging them on instead.

[financeguy]

Oberlin has become a default synonym for "insane left." Tucker Carlson has been using them as the default example (i.e., three trust funders at Oberlin would like this policy, etc) but I also noticed them used yesterday on the leftist Young Turks internet news show. The term "birthing people" was discussed since used in a tweet from a health policy maker in NY and the host was making the point that this type of term turns a lot of people off who would otherwise be allies. He said something to the effect of "this isn't a real term but something someone at Oberlin made this up three seconds ago." When you have both of those people who think you are crazy at the same time, that doesn't leave of a lot of people outside the campus bubble who are supporters.