Vaccination nation

[larryc]

David Frum (I know, I know) had a good column about using our economic power to encourage more vaccinations. Making an appointment for a haircut, medical procedure, restaurant? Ask "Now are all of your employees vaccinated?" If they say anything other than yes, call someone else. When you order an Uber text the driver the same question. Cancel the ride if the answer is no. If Uber tries to charge you take it up with them on social media.

[mamselle]

Pray yes, of course.   But we must find some way to cut through the disinformation and groupthink biases (Rachel Maddow has reported that some folks in Missouri are actually arranging secret vaccination sessions, lest they be seen entering vax site, getting vaxxed, etc).  There is also the reality that people, as they age, more or less always get less flexible in their thinking, and more set/ reinforced in those thought processes--- especially when they are in a closed feedback-loop environment such as a small religious congregation.  It probably would not do for me to talk about everything my pastor has said from the pulpit over the last 15+ months (or even before covid, for that matter), nor even more so about what is normal thinking on most of  the congregants' part-- heck, the pastor had to preach against Qanon some months back.   Some of my motivations for remaining in this congregation are not good, but some are, and in any case, one does not just abandon one's church, go back on one's membership vows, for less than serious reasons.

All that said, I reallllllyyyyy would like to know how to teach these folks better...

If your church has an Adult Ed program, you could either offer to teach a course series on something broader (like, say, "Luke the Physician: Medicinal Plants, Miracles, and Healing Procedures Detailed in Scripture*" or invite two or three speakers in to do a panel discussion (online, of course).

As I wrote that, I said to myself, "Oh, but the tech itself might be self-selecting, if those who know how to/are willing to use Zoom are the same sub-group of that population more open to discussion rather than determinism...." so maybe not, but you mentioned teaching them...and those are bona fide, accepted ways that laity give instruction in religious settings I'm familiar with, and at least some folks might warm to it, and get the discussion going--so it might be worth a thought (WITH your pastor's knowledge, help, approval, etc., of course...).

There are many Latin texts on this (the Beneventan monastic, Constantinus Africanus; Latin translations of Galen and Sydenham, which were in colonial ministers' libraries (see 'The Angelical Conjunction,' for example); as well as online digitized copies of things like Benjamin Wadsworth's 'simples' book), so you could have fun with those, as well.

Anyway, just a random, brainstorm-y, possible thought. 

M. (veteran teacher of many Ad.Ed programs, topical Bible Studies, and retreat workshops who knows they don't all go smoothly, too.)

*There are many books on these from all perspectives including more conservative Christian publishing houses (Logos, Zondervan, and IVP come to mind) and a six-weeks syllabus might be interesting to put together from your own perspective as well. The "plants" part alone might draw gardeners interested in historic gardens (local historical societies often have groups and interested guest speakers) and the caring professions include many folks who can speak from a Scriptural as well as a cultural basis of respect and agreement. - M.   

[apl68]

Pray yes, of course.   But we must find some way to cut through the disinformation and groupthink biases (Rachel Maddow has reported that some folks in Missouri are actually arranging secret vaccination sessions, lest they be seen entering vax site, getting vaxxed, etc).  There is also the reality that people, as they age, more or less always get less flexible in their thinking, and more set/ reinforced in those thought processes--- especially when they are in a closed feedback-loop environment such as a small religious congregation.  It probably would not do for me to talk about everything my pastor has said from the pulpit over the last 15+ months (or even before covid, for that matter), nor even more so about what is normal thinking on most of  the congregants' part-- heck, the pastor had to preach against Qanon some months back.   Some of my motivations for remaining in this congregation are not good, but some are, and in any case, one does not just abandon one's church, go back on one's membership vows, for less than serious reasons.

All that said, I reallllllyyyyy would like to know how to teach these folks better...

If your church has an Adult Ed program, you could either offer to teach a course series on something broader (like, say, "Luke the Physician: Medicinal Plants, Miracles, and Healing Procedures Detailed in Scripture*" or invite two or three speakers in to do a panel discussion (online, of course).

As I wrote that, I said to myself, "Oh, but the tech itself might be self-selecting, if those who know how to/are willing to use Zoom are the same sub-group of that population more open to discussion rather than determinism...." so maybe not, but you mentioned teaching them...and those are bona fide, accepted ways that laity give instruction in religious settings I'm familiar with, and at least some folks might warm to it, and get the discussion going--so it might be worth a thought (WITH your pastor's knowledge, help, approval, etc., of course...).

There are many Latin texts on this (the Beneventan monastic, Constantinus Africanus; Latin translations of Galen and Sydenham, which were in colonial ministers' libraries (see 'The Angelical Conjunction,' for example); as well as online digitized copies of things like Benjamin Wadsworth's 'simples' book), so you could have fun with those, as well.

Anyway, just a random, brainstorm-y, possible thought. 

M. (veteran teacher of many Ad.Ed programs, topical Bible Studies, and retreat workshops who knows they don't all go smoothly, too.)

*There are many books on these from all perspectives including more conservative Christian publishing houses (Logos, Zondervan, and IVP come to mind) and a six-weeks syllabus might be interesting to put together from your own perspective as well. The "plants" part alone might draw gardeners interested in historic gardens (local historical societies often have groups and interested guest speakers) and the caring professions include many folks who can speak from a Scriptural as well as a cultural basis of respect and agreement. - M.

While you could your create some interesting programs with that approach, I doubt it's going to find much interest in a congregation of people who are not academically inclined.  The approach I've seen that works best is what I described our pastor doing above--reminding church members that everything we do is not for ourselves alone, but for others as well.  We get vaccinated (and take other precautions against the spread of disease) for others, not just for ourselves.  We may not feel a need to become vaccinated for our own sake.  We may even resent the way others have tried to guilt or manipulate us into it.  But if there's a chance that it could benefit others, or even allay their anxieties, then it becomes us to do it.

[Morden]

People getting sick from the vaccine for weeks and then dying was mentioned. I think they're more afraid of getting sick from the vaccine than the actual virus.

I got really sick from the second dose of Moderna, but during it, I kept thinking "Wow. If this is what Covid is like, I'm so glad I got the vaccine. And I know this is just my immune system learning to fight." Maybe you could find some videos saying something similar?

[kaysixteen]

apl is right, of course, but even more so one needs to acknowledge that one cannot  teach someone who does not agree with basic presuppositions, basic facts.   This is the issue here.   And the totally *independent* nature of this congregation means that there are no outside sources of authority, or even consultation, to which the pastor is accountable.

[hmaria1609]

Earlier today, Gov. Hogan announced mandatory vaccinations or regular testing for MD state employees:
https://wtop.com/maryland/2021/08/maryland-coronavirus-update-august-5-2/
Posted on WTOP Radio online (8/5/21)
Note: there's a link to a news announcement by Gov. Ralph Northam for VA state employees, comparable to Hogan's. Scroll past ad breaks to view article.

[dismalist]

apl is right, of course, but even more so one needs to acknowledge that one cannot  teach someone who does not agree with basic presuppositions, basic facts.   This is the issue here.   And the totally *independent* nature of this congregation means that there are no outside sources of authority, or even consultation, to which the pastor is accountable.

I really, really, really hate to point out that Charlie Darwin will take care of all of us.

[Caracal]

apl is right, of course, but even more so one needs to acknowledge that one cannot  teach someone who does not agree with basic presuppositions, basic facts.   This is the issue here.   And the totally *independent* nature of this congregation means that there are no outside sources of authority, or even consultation, to which the pastor is accountable.

I really, really, really hate to point out that Charlie Darwin will take care of all of us.

Ugh, I really hate this sort of pop social darwinism.

[Ruralguy]

I hate social Darwinism too, but as I say to my students when they ask me what in the class is optional, I say : "Everything in life is optional, including breathing (but then it won't last much longer)." So, if they want to make the vaccine optional for themselves, let them. I think we can try some convincing from time to time, but short of forcing them, which I am against in the public sector (private companies have more freedom), what can you really do that will have an effect? I'm not without human sympathy, but I can already see that at least some see the madness they've helped to create and are getting the vaccine.

[hmaria1609]

I meant to post this yesterday. Mayor Bowser announced vaccines are required for DC government employees:
https://wtop.com/dc/2021/08/bowser-issues-covid-19-vaccine-mandate-for-dc-gov-workers/
Scroll past ad breaks to read full article. Posted on WTOP Radio (8/10/21)

[jimbogumbo]

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/12/teachers-union-aft-punts-on-vaccine-mandates-504164

[AmLitHist]

It was announced in yesterday's opening session that all faculty who present proof of vaccination will get $500 cash.  Students will get $300. 

I wonder if/how many will enroll, get the vaccine money, then drop? (We have extremely high numbers of students who show up until census date, when they get their loan refund checks, and then disappear.) I guess at least it might increase the vaccination numbers, which are very bad around my campus.

[downer]

Boosters!
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/us/politics/booster-shots.html?referringSource=articleShare

I heard that some people (Angela Merkel?) got one each of Moderna and Pfizer which is mean to be more effective. Would it make sense to get a different booster from the vaccine you originally got? I got Moderna, so should I get a Pfizer booster?

[Caracal]

Boosters!
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/us/politics/booster-shots.html?referringSource=articleShare

I heard that some people (Angela Merkel?) got one each of Moderna and Pfizer which is mean to be more effective. Would it make sense to get a different booster from the vaccine you originally got? I got Moderna, so should I get a Pfizer booster?

I don't think there's any evidence for that. Important to realize that the benefit for most people is likely to be fairly marginal and the most important protection is probably pretty long lasting.

[mouseman]

Boosters!
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/us/politics/booster-shots.html?referringSource=articleShare

I heard that some people (Angela Merkel?) got one each of Moderna and Pfizer which is mean to be more effective. Would it make sense to get a different booster from the vaccine you originally got? I got Moderna, so should I get a Pfizer booster?

I don't think there's any evidence for that. Important to realize that the benefit for most people is likely to be fairly marginal and the most important protection is probably pretty long lasting.

On the other hand I heard that Moderna provides better protection against Delta, while Pfizer is better against the earlier variants. So having both may provide wider protection.