I have dental insurance, but like (apparently) most such plans, it really isn't very good, with it only covering routine (2x/yr) cleanings and exams (1x/yr). Copays for any work that actually needs to be done are rather high, certainly much higher than corresponding copays for medical coverage in my health insurance (why the US continues to separate the two is rather, ahem, mystifying). I have been on the coverage for 7 years, and the local dentist practice I use is fine (local site of a regional chain dental practice). I did have one cavity c. 2018 which was filled competently. On my most recent annual exam, three weeks ago, dentist told me I had two more cavities which needed to be filled, and which we did yesterday (seems to be fine, no problems). But she also told me I need, or at least should get, a crown, and the practice is going to contact my insurance co to see what I would end up having to pay for it (as a comparison, it cost $86 copay for the two fillings). I am certainly not going to authorize any crowns for which I cannot pay (but doc also mentioned yesterday that the cavities in the teeth she filled were very deep, she was going to do her best, but I might end up losing the teeth). I confess I did not ask her on which tooth the crown is supposed to be put (though I can myself see some clear degradation of some of the surfaces of my teeth, I guess-- this has been there for several years and never has been mentioned as problematic by her before). Question would thus be twofold: 1) anyone ever get one of these crowns, and 2) how would I know if it is essential, and what would happen if I declined? I confess the wikipedia article does not make me clamour for this treatment.
I've had two, due to nighttime grinding. I could tell they needed more than the usual work, but didn't have major pain or sensitivity.
You are of course in Canada-- how is dental expense covered there?
Be very careful with dead or cracked teeth. I had a dental emergency while traveling once. At first it hurt, but then that died down, and decided I would wait until we got home to have it fixed. We were driving across perhaps 60% of the continent, so we had a way to go. I looked in the rearview mirror and noticed that one side of my face was puffy. My wife looked it up on her phone, which said "If you have an infected tooth and your face starts to swell, get to an ER immediately." Apparently, the infection can easily travel through your sinuses and into the brain. Fortunately we found a dentist which could see me the next morning and prescribe some antibiotics----but he had to numb me and cut open some of the soft tissue in the mouth to clean out the infection. Not pleasant. If you have a ruptured tooth the pain can be excruciating. Get the crown if you can.
1. You can wait. The worst cases are a. the tooth breaks, which may or may not hurt depending on the break, or you get an infection/the tooth dies. (IF you notice that you are feeling pain with HEAT, that is a bad sign... lots are sensitive to cold, but with heat, the tooth is dying.)
You can also wait for the next year and add money to a medical savings account. The money will come from your paycheck and reduce your taxable income. You can use that money to pay for the crown. You do not need to wait, you can use the money as soon as your plan starts. (It will start at the beginning of your year. We are on a fiscal year, so ours restart in September, but if you are on a calendar year, you may start as soon as January). You should contact HR to see if you have time to make that change.
2. I have a few crowns (at least 4). One was probably not necessary. I had a cracked tooth and was warned that it could break. However they never know how deep the cracks are. After they reduced the tooth to make room for the crown, I asked, and the damage was less serious than thought but too late!. The others included a tooth that had a major filling from my teens/20s that needed replaced and it was a large part of the tooth structure, and another 2 became sensitive to heat or gave major pain.
Dental insurance never covers much. I have a plan where IF I use a 'contract dentist' (who is part of the plan), then cleanings are free and there are significant savings on the other work. My dentist was part of the plan, but reimbursements were so low, it wasnt worth their time. There may be one dentist in town that takes the plan. They do pay part of the cost of cleanings and other services. I keep it because it does cover the annual cost of cleanings, and IF there is an issue, there is some offset.
However, as I mentioned, you can use the health care savings account, and I have used that to pay for most of it. In fact I had a tooth die and got a root canal in May or so, but did the tooth prep and crown in September once the health care account became active.
Sorry that you are having these problems. Hopefully it will all work out quickly and inexpensively.
Quote from: kaysixteen on December 05, 2023, 10:44:30 PMYou are of course in Canada-- how is dental expense covered there?
It isn't. It's shameful. The government did recently pass $500 of coverage for low-income families, which is a start.
I have some insurance through my employer. A crown costs more than my yearly coverage, however. And checkups alone are hella expensive here (four times what they were back east!).
I have multiple crowns (and yes, they are expensive, but they saved the teeth). My husband waited too long to get a crown; they couldn't save the tooth; the tooth pull didn't go well, and he wound up with a nasty abscess.
The main reason for crowns being denied is that the policy explicitly states "no crowns." This is very common for low level US policies. This is true even if a root canal is approved for taking care of the dying tooth.
They can also be denied if the dentist doesn't really state an explicit reason for them.
The medical savings accounts idea will of course only work if you have that as work place benefit.
I have one crown, put on after a root canal, and it wasn't covered.
Your employer may offer an HSA or an FSA. HSA's are more useful imo as the money can carry over forever. FSA's have to be spent in the calendar year or you lose the money. Either (if offered) may have an employer contribution as well as whatever you designate from your pay. As clean noted, they both are pretax contributions, and in my experience always well worth it. My dental never covered crowns at all, so I always made sure I did the max contribuTion in a year I needed one.
You could get a second opinion on whether you needed the crowns. My dentist was very convincing about mine, and much of the tooth had cracked off anyway. They are not painful to get, but it does take a while.
Hmmm....
1) I have no visibly cracked teeth, and no inordinate pain.
2) I take it that crowns may become necessary when a cavity is deep enough that the dentist does not think a regular filling would work?
3) What exactly is the diff between the need for a crown and the need for a 'root canal', a procedure the dentist mentioned briefly the first time I saw her last month, at the regular annual exam?
4) I confess that my preference, for aesthetic/ personal reasons would to *not* get a metal crown, but rather a ceramic one, since the metal teeth looks downright thuggish...
One more thing, wrt Canada and dental coverage, considering Canadians' general attitude towards national health insurance programs, etc, why has not dental coverage been added thereto?
If you live in an area with a dental school, you might check with them.
Quote from: kaysixteen on December 06, 2023, 11:14:39 PMOne more thing, wrt Canada and dental coverage, considering Canadians' general attitude towards national health insurance programs, etc, why has not dental coverage been added thereto?
I suspect dental was seen as not essential--like eyeglasses, hearing aids, physical therapy, prescriptions (of course, many of these items are indeed essential). Many Canadians do have health insurance either with an employer or separately to help pay for these things, often on a co-pay basis. SO and I paid around $300C a month for 80% coverage.
Quote from: Morden on December 07, 2023, 07:55:03 AMQuote from: kaysixteen on December 06, 2023, 11:14:39 PMOne more thing, wrt Canada and dental coverage, considering Canadians' general attitude towards national health insurance programs, etc, why has not dental coverage been added thereto?
I suspect dental was seen as not essential--like eyeglasses, hearing aids, physical therapy, prescriptions (of course, many of these items are indeed essential). Many Canadians do have health insurance either with an employer or separately to help pay for these things, often on a co-pay basis. SO and I paid around $300C a month for 80% coverage.
That, plus the same historical reasons that have seen dental (and eye) care separated from "medical" care and training in the US.
But also, the federal and provincial governments have been dropping the ball on healthcare funding for decades, and things are getting pretty worryingly bad now. There's been lots of outsourcing to the private sector, and it's only made things worse.
Quote from: kaysixteen on December 06, 2023, 10:41:15 PMHmmm....
1) I have no visibly cracked teeth, and no inordinate pain.
2) I take it that crowns may become necessary when a cavity is deep enough that the dentist does not think a regular filling would work?
3) What exactly is the diff between the need for a crown and the need for a 'root canal', a procedure the dentist mentioned briefly the first time I saw her last month, at the regular annual exam?
4) I confess that my preference, for aesthetic/ personal reasons would to *not* get a metal crown, but rather a ceramic one, since the metal teeth looks downright thuggish...
You need to clear this up with your dentist. Again, sometimes you can wait on these things, sometimes they can be bad.
The root canal clears out the dead nerve and blood vessels from inside a dead tooth. Usually I think this comes from a very deep cavity which intrudes into the inner part of the tooth. Because the nerve tissue is dead, your dead tooth may not hurt at all. Often the dentist has to shave the tooth down to the roots because teeth walls are not not strong once the tooth has been damaged like this. The dentist will then fit a fake tooth over the root.
This stuff is explained lots of places. https://www.aae.org/patients/root-canal-treatment/what-is-a-root-canal/
I would urge you to act on this, but as others have said, sometimes you can wait. Talk to your dentist.
On edit: I think all crowns are ceramic these days; they will even match your particular tooth color to your particular crown.
an issue with big cavities is that something has to be put in there to fill the hole. In the olden days that was a metal filling that could expand or contract (giving different forces on the tooth) , outgas mercury, or allow leaks to come in on the sides, which could allow another cavity or infection in the root.
Today, if you add the filling into the hole, the rest of the tooth has to support the filling material. The filling material is a different density than the rest of the tooth and with less original tooth structure, the tooth is more likely to break/split/splinter.
Take care of your teeth. lots of problems pop up when you dont have them. There are issues with bone loss, preventing implants, digestion problems from less effectively chewed food, ...
Im not a dental expert. I have some crowns and filling. I have chewed through one bite guard already (because I m a grinder, especially at night) and #2 is well broken in! I visit the dentist regularly so I think I am informed about my choices, but it never hurts to get a second opinion!
Remember, "Dont as a barber if you need a haircut". Similarly, if you are not sure, ask a second dentist if a particular treatment is best or if there are other options available (which my be outside Dentist #1's expertise or preferences).
The one thing about waiting- you do NOT want to wait to the point that you need an emergency root canal! Mr. Buster needed one after a night of agony such as I have never seen. His tooth had cracked and I think there was infection in the root involved.
The other info that I will give you- ERs have no clue what to do if you are having a tooth issue. They did not know how to give him a Novocain shot and instead tried oral opiates- which don't work the right way for this type of pain. Hence the night of agony.
So have a thorough conversation with your dentist about the window of time you realistically have to make a decision.
Quote from: mythbuster on December 09, 2023, 09:59:36 AMThe one thing about waiting- you do NOT want to wait to the point that you need an emergency root canal! Mr. Buster needed one after a night of agony such as I have never seen. His tooth had cracked and I think there was infection in the root involved.
The other info that I will give you- ERs have no clue what to do if you are having a tooth issue. They did not know how to give him a Novocain shot and instead tried oral opiates- which don't work the right way for this type of pain. Hence the night of agony.
So have a thorough conversation with your dentist about the window of time you realistically have to make a decision.
Amen and double amen.
Treat this like a potentially serious health issue.
So I got the letter from the dental ins co today, regarding coverage for the (only one) crown the dentist wants to do. Total charge dentist wants is just over $1600, of which exactly bupkis is covered by insurance. The bottom of the letter also indicates that, BTW, I have less than $400 worth of benefit eligibility for 2023. So I am cogitatin' about various things related to this, in no particular order of arrangement:
1) I pay just over 21 bucks a month in premiums for the insurance, which only seems to provide me with those two cleanings and one exam/ x-ray per year (the two fillings I got last week I am charged an $86 copay for, though I have not seen a bill to see what if anything the ins did pay for there). I am thus wondering, as real work such as a crown is not apparently covered at all, what exactly am I getting for my c. 250 bucks a year dental ins premiums? IOW, if I stopped the insurance, and paid out of pocket for those two cleanings and one exam, I wonder whether I might even come out somewhat ahead for the year, seeing as I would certainly have to pay for any additional work the dentists said I needed (come to think on it some, since my dental coverage is subsidized on the state's Obamacare plan, I do not even know, offhand, how much the total premium the ins co is getting)-- anyone try doing something like this?
2) I have occasionally seen tv ads for dental insurance schemes that are bought directly from a company that does not offer benefits through such avenues as the Obamacare exchanges, and the ads make very impressive claims-- does anyone have experience with buying dental insurance like this?
3) I have also seen ads for chain dental practices offering new and uninsured patients free exams and x-rays, which of course suggests that, unless the dentist offering such an exam finds some needed work he can convince said uninsured patient to get and therefore pay for, he will earn nothing from such labors. This is different from the tv personal injury lawyer who offers free consultations and then, if he takes your case, does so on contingency, guaranteeing you will pay nothing if you do not win-- in the dentist case, there would seem to be a great incentive for the dentist to say you needed to get expensive work x done, in hopes that you would feel compelled to shell out the bucks to do so, esp if financing schemes were made available, as many such ads suggest they would be. IOW, how do you avoid such mortician-style high pressure upselling efforts? I have had the annual exam with my current dentist, for which the insurance paid, so there is no prospect of its paying for any second opinions-- I am tempted to go to one of those 'free exam'-offering dentists and seeing what he would say, and if he agreed with my current one's suggestion of a needed crown (I do know the number of the tooth she wants to do it for, too), without my telling the new dentist beforehand, then I would of course ask him what he would charge for it, and see what happens.
4) My current dentist takes my insurance, of course, but may not be in the insurance co's 'PPO Network', whatever exactly this means, but the claim denial letter helpfully offers the www site for the list of dentists who, being in this network, may charge less for the service. I suppose I will look at this site, and see what develops (I have been with this dental practice for 7 years, with no complaints, but I would very much like a second opinion before shelling out big bucks I do not have, presumably only on a financing plan scheme).
5) Again, I guess, I have to reiterate the plaintive wail-- why the hell is dental insurance like this, whereas regular health ins ain't?
One of my postdocs recently needed a bunch of dental work, but didn't have dental coverage yet. It was cheaper for them to fly half way around the world to their Home country to get the work done there, so they did.
I also had a former supervisor who did a lot of work in Brazil. They always had their dental work done there. It was cheaper (and apparently good quality) even with their dental coverage.
Apparently dental work in N. America is a bit of a racket.
Worth considering a trip!
Definitely look to see if there is a nearby In Network dentist.
As for foreign options, there is a Mexican town that specializes in dental work. It is just across the US border and many, many retirees will park their RVs on the US side and walk across to get extensive, inexpensive work done, and some of these dentists may even be US trained. Im sure that a web search will find the city.
Dental and vision insurance are not really things that one should buy. For the insurance company to make money, they must collect more than they pay out (which is true of all businesses!). However, these items are not generally items that will break one's budget. Glasses can be paid for, and you get more choices of frames without the insurance! Getting glasses wont cause major financial distress.
Similarly, you are paying $21 a month. A cleaning without insurance costs what? Annual x-rays? There isnt a lot of money left to apply toward paying for major treatment needs.
You may very well be better off by self paying for your cleanings. Consider going next year without it (If you have one, move the dental premium into your your health care savings account. It wont pay any LESS than your current insurer is paying for the crown!!)
FWIW, here the checkup costs ~$300 (though it was $80 back east!), X-rays cost about $120, and a crown costs ~$1600. My insurance covers $1600 a year. Although they're being right dicks about the crown I got in March, which they haven't reimbursed yet for reasons I cannot fathom. They normally just accept the charge right up to the limit.
Incidentally, I just got new glasses. They cost $900, which is actually a fair sight cheaper than they have been in the past (usually ~$1200). But glasses are known to be a lot more expensive in Canada than the US. My insurance covered $750, which was nice, with no restrictions on frames, tinting, slimming, etc.
Most basic dental plans ONLY cover 2 checkups (basically, a doctor examining your mouth) and annual x-rays, and that is it. They pay out a % on fillings, but you'll still be charged something (maybe $100 or so).
I honestly don't think any basic plans pay out ANYTHING else.
Dental surgery, I believe, is usually covered under medical, not basic dental, but that's ONLY the surgery, and not the crowns (for the case of a root canal).
Some employers or other providers will give you a premium dental option. The main feature is that it covers crowns, but of course it paid for by charging at least 100 more per month for the insurance, probably more in most areas.
Quote from: kaysixteen on December 06, 2023, 11:14:39 PMOne more thing, wrt Canada and dental coverage, considering Canadians' general attitude towards national health insurance programs, etc, why has not dental coverage been added thereto?
They are rolling out dental coverage for children and seniors with low income. It is a far cry from any universal coverage, but it is a good start. It is a shame that there are children across the country that dont have access to the dentist, although some of them may be happy about it....
See if Delta Dental is available in your state. Have had good luck with them, and in many states you can purchase directly from them.
If you have a dental school within range, and you are willing to put yourself in the hands of a student, you might get the procedure greatly reduced or even free.
Aspen Dental also has a plan that covers cleanings and such and gives one reduced procedures.
https://aspendentalplan.com/
They lost money on me this year because of this plan.
Quote from: kaysixteen on December 05, 2023, 08:32:17 PMI have dental insurance, but like (apparently) most such plans, it really isn't very good, with it only covering routine (2x/yr) cleanings and exams (1x/yr). Copays for any work that actually needs to be done are rather high, certainly much higher than corresponding copays for medical coverage in my health insurance (why the US continues to separate the two is rather, ahem, mystifying). I have been on the coverage for 7 years, and the local dentist practice I use is fine (local site of a regional chain dental practice). I did have one cavity c. 2018 which was filled competently. On my most recent annual exam, three weeks ago, dentist told me I had two more cavities which needed to be filled, and which we did yesterday (seems to be fine, no problems). But she also told me I need, or at least should get, a crown, and the practice is going to contact my insurance co to see what I would end up having to pay for it (as a comparison, it cost $86 copay for the two fillings). I am certainly not going to authorize any crowns for which I cannot pay (but doc also mentioned yesterday that the cavities in the teeth she filled were very deep, she was going to do her best, but I might end up losing the teeth). I confess I did not ask her on which tooth the crown is supposed to be put (though I can myself see some clear degradation of some of the surfaces of my teeth, I guess-- this has been there for several years and never has been mentioned as problematic by her before). Question would thus be twofold: 1) anyone ever get one of these crowns, and 2) how would I know if it is essential, and what would happen if I declined? I confess the wikipedia article does not make me clamour for this treatment.
This is not the time to do your own research... or solicit advice from the internet. Do as your dentist says. If you do not have faith in your dentist then find another dentist.
Quote from: kaysixteen on December 05, 2023, 08:32:17 PMQuestion would thus be twofold: 1) anyone ever get one of these crowns, and 2) how would I know if it is essential, and what would happen if I declined? I confess the wikipedia article does not make me clamour for this treatment.
No, no, do NOT go to Wikipedia for medical advice. I think your questions have been answered here. A bad tooth can be very painful and even dangerous. If you don't want to spend the money, you can opt to have the tooth pulled for probably a couple of hundred dollars, but don't ignore this like it is a skin blemish.
Random observations:
1) Err.... Delta Dental IS my dental ins co.
2) Lemme clarify a wee bit here-- I get that the dentist has *probably* not asked me to get a crown if she does not think it necessary that I do get it, but, like it or not, having ascertained that the ins will pay nothing towards it, the basic reality is that, well, I cannot afford this. Not even in the ballpark of affordability pour moi. Any financing schemes that the dental practice may offer me, moreover, would be also just unaffordable. It is what it is. A look-see around here in Rusty City, in any retail store or similar public place, further, will doubtless demonstrate that many adults here have not, ahem, seen a dentist in the 21st century, and that won't be changin' anytime soon. It is sad to acknowledge that dental issues, those that apparently are real health issues, are apparently just not dealt with the way other health issues, covered by real medical insurance are, but it is what it is.
Quote from: kaysixteen on December 14, 2023, 10:11:18 PMRandom observations:
1) Err.... Delta Dental IS my dental ins co.
2) Lemme clarify a wee bit here-- I get that the dentist has *probably* not asked me to get a crown if she does not think it necessary that I do get it, but, like it or not, having ascertained that the ins will pay nothing towards it, the basic reality is that, well, I cannot afford this. Not even in the ballpark of affordability pour moi. Any financing schemes that the dental practice may offer me, moreover, would be also just unaffordable. It is what it is. A look-see around here in Rusty City, in any retail store or similar public place, further, will doubtless demonstrate that many adults here have not, ahem, seen a dentist in the 21st century, and that won't be changin' anytime soon. It is sad to acknowledge that dental issues, those that apparently are real health issues, are apparently just not dealt with the way other health issues, covered by real medical insurance are, but it is what it is.
I am a bit confused. You have dental insurance, but it will not pay
anything toward needed crowns? It sounds as though you have a bare minimum policy; you obviously need to reconsider that the next time your plans offers open enrollment. When I signed up for dental insurance with my school/employer we were offered plans at three different levels. Better coverage was, of course, more expensive but you were given a choice. Based on past experiences I chose the highest level of coverage. Even in the absence of such choice you have the option to buy supplemental coverage—which I did for my health plan. Have you seen those Aflac commercials with the quacking duck? That is the supplemental insurance offered through my employer and I purchased it. While I had to jump through hoops to make a claim it did cover everything my regular insurance did not cover. I highly recommend it.
When you are twentysomething insurance may seem like a waste because you are mostly healthy and have little understanding of real illness and the financial costs associated with it. By the time you are fifty+ your perspective changes. Invest in the insurance. Having it is essential for you—and especially for your family! This includes life insurance.
As for your present situation, you will have to tighten your belt, finance the cost, and engage in whatever side hustle is necessary to retire that debt. No, you should not be in this situation, but you
are. So deal with it; do what you have to do.
I too have Delta. Im not a huge fan. I wrote that they pay very little toward anything. However, My Bride uses a dentist that is in their network, and I may have to change to that dentist, and I would certainly visit if I had to have any major work done. While I have used and liked my dentist for 20 years, he long ago stopped taking the insurance, and I have paid what the insurance doesnt cover. I have made the difference up by making sure that my Health Care Saving account was adjusted for the need and postponing the treatments until the new plan year.
However, that is not an option for you as you indicated that you dont have the option of the health care savings (from what I remember as I type). You DO have the option of visiting a dentist in their plan! IF you have the same plan I have with Delta, you are allowed 3 visits with a dentist a year. So perhaps you can schedule one with a dentist in your area that takes the plan. (Even if you have to extend 'your area' to include 50 or more miles from your house!)
Crowns are expensive, there is no way around that, but the plan does provide some coverage for them usually, but at a very low pay rate (from what I remember about mine).
The rest will have to be financed, though, and that will mean a change to your financial plan. You will need to save a few hundred more a month until the cost is saved up. Ask the dentist, who seems willing to arrange financing from an alternate source, if there is a 'cash discount'. Certainly, if he has arranged to have a finance company as part of his practice, he is not getting paid 100% of what is financed, but a fraction. How big is the fraction, or how much can be discounted off the list price?
Then call around and tell the other dentist offices in your area that you want a second opinion on a particular job, get a copy of your records from the current dentist's office and get estimates of a. how critical this need is, b. how soon it should be done - how long can you put it off, and c. what they will charge for the service. They may not charge you for a visit, or at least find out what they will charge to 'bid for the job'.
(maybe that is the way to approach it. "I want to give you an opportunity to bid for the job of crowning this tooth. I will provide you with the charts and x-rays and make myself available to see my tooth in person, and discuss with you the price you will bid for this work".
Hmmmm....
1) I will indeed, after the first of the year, investigate alternative insurance options, and the in-network options the letter from Delta suggests might help me. What I will not do is alter my 'plan' in order to allocate a couple hundred bucks a month towards a crown, because.... ahem... err... where the hell am I to get a couple hundred uncommitted for essentials bucks?
It is perhaps necessary to reiterate here that, well, many if not the vast majority of those folks I mentioned, those who have not seen, obviously, a dentist in the 21st c., do not seek such services because THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO DO SO.
2) As to calling various local dentists and seeing if they will see me, preferably without charge, to 'bid on the job' of a crown, am I alone in thinking this an unseemly act, akin to seeking estimates from contractors on remodeling the bathroom? It would of course also be the case that any dentist agreeing to see me under such circumstances would bid on the job, and would be therefore highly unlikely to say that in fact he did not think a crown was warranted...
am I alone in thinking this an unseemly act, akin to seeking estimates from contractors on remodeling the bathroom?
Better than awful pain and then having your teeth fall out.
I think our friend Kay is looking for some way to justify not paying for the procedure. It's a roll of the dice, K16, just immediately seek help if it gets bad.
I wouldn't ask for free bids. I would ask for second opinions and estimates, though. Ideally go to dentists recommended by friends or colleagues, so you know they're reliable.
Quote from: kaysixteen on December 15, 2023, 10:31:58 PMHmmmm....
1) I will indeed, after the first of the year, investigate alternative insurance options, and the in-network options the letter from Delta suggests might help me. What I will not do is alter my 'plan' in order to allocate a couple hundred bucks a month towards a crown, because.... ahem... err... where the hell am I to get a couple hundred uncommitted for essentials bucks?
It is perhaps necessary to reiterate here that, well, many if not the vast majority of those folks I mentioned, those who have not seen, obviously, a dentist in the 21st c., do not seek such services because THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO DO SO.
2) As to calling various local dentists and seeing if they will see me, preferably without charge, to 'bid on the job' of a crown, am I alone in thinking this an unseemly act, akin to seeking estimates from contractors on remodeling the bathroom? It would of course also be the case that any dentist agreeing to see me under such circumstances would bid on the job, and would be therefore highly unlikely to say that in fact he did not think a crown was warranted...
You say you cannot afford to have this dental work done. With respect, I am trying to understand what you are spending your money on that is more important than your (oral) health? I realize we all have different priorities, but I cannot think of anything more important than my health, eye health, oral health, hearing, etc.
That said you do have options—even if you do not necessarily like them. At my university we have a dental school. They routinely offer low cost or free service to needy patients who agree to be worked on by students (under the supervision of dental faculty). Perhaps you can investigate that at a nearby school if you own institution doesn't have a dental school and clinic.
I suggested this a few pages back, as did someone else, but crickets from K16. And to give him credit, there may not be a dental school easily accessible to him. In my little corner of the world, I would have to drive @80 miles to a dental school. And perhaps Wahoo Redux has a good point.
Errrrr.....
1) I confess I am trying to ascertain why exactly it is that it is so hard for many people here to grasp the reality that I cannot afford such work, even if I thought I needed it (I've no dental pain, and no visible cracks, etc., nothing really much different from my last physical a year ago). I will be, as I said, looking into various options after the New Year, but I will not be placing my teeth out to bid, not the least reason for which is that such bidding will doubtless encourage dentists to say that they would do the work for $x, whether the work needs to be done or not, since they'd make exactly nothing from me if they said other than that. My dental health is of course important to me, and I do acknowledge being somewhat surprised that my dental ins co will pay exactly bupkis for this pretty standard dental procedure, whereas of course my regular med insurance certainly pays something, usually the vast majority of the cost, for all needed med work my docs seek. In no real sense is this dental coverage 'insurance' akin to the regular health ins, and this is an issue we do need, as a society, to address, esp since I am absolutely correct to note that here in Rusty City you will indeed regularly spy out normal, hardworking people (not just street meth addicts) who have crappy teeth, because they cannot afford to do anything about it.
2) The nearest dental school is probably 60 miles away. I could go there, I guess, but I ain't willing to become a practice guinea pig for trainees, like it or not, and have such students be drilling into my mouth, perhaps to make a mistake before their teacher/ supervisor could intervene, any more than I would ever permit such a trainee ophthalmologist to perform the laser treatment or eyeball injections I have needed for my eye condition. I get that such trainees need to be trained in order to be able to do these procedures going forward, but respectfully, they are going to have to find other test dummies.
Quote from: kaysixteen on December 18, 2023, 09:03:50 PMErrrrr.....
1) I confess I am trying to ascertain why exactly it is that it is so hard for many people here to grasp the reality that I cannot afford such work, even if I thought I needed it (I've no dental pain, and no visible cracks, etc., nothing really much different from my last physical a year ago). I will be, as I said, looking into various options after the New Year, but I will not be placing my teeth out to bid, not the least reason for which is that such bidding will doubtless encourage dentists to say that they would do the work for $x, whether the work needs to be done or not, since they'd make exactly nothing from me if they said other than that. My dental health is of course important to me, and I do acknowledge being somewhat surprised that my dental ins co will pay exactly bupkis for this pretty standard dental procedure, whereas of course my regular med insurance certainly pays something, usually the vast majority of the cost, for all needed med work my docs seek. In no real sense is this dental coverage 'insurance' akin to the regular health ins, and this is an issue we do need, as a society, to address, esp since I am absolutely correct to note that here in Rusty City you will indeed regularly spy out normal, hardworking people (not just street meth addicts) who have crappy teeth, because they cannot afford to do anything about it.
2) The nearest dental school is probably 60 miles away. I could go there, I guess, but I ain't willing to become a practice guinea pig for trainees, like it or not, and have such students be drilling into my mouth, perhaps to make a mistake before their teacher/ supervisor could intervene, any more than I would ever permit such a trainee ophthalmologist to perform the laser treatment or eyeball injections I have needed for my eye condition. I get that such trainees need to be trained in order to be able to do these procedures going forward, but respectfully, they are going to have to find other test dummies.
It sounds as though you must have some better alternatives, which makes me wonder why you posted here to begin with. I am sure it will all work out for the best. Good luck to you.
Quote from: kaysixteen on December 18, 2023, 09:03:50 PM1) I confess I am trying to ascertain why exactly it is that it is so hard for many people here to grasp the reality that I cannot afford such work, even if I thought I needed it (I've no dental pain, and no visible cracks, etc., nothing really much different from my last physical a year ago).
We get that.
Peeps here have expressed concern for you. The bacteria in your dead tooth do not care if you can pay for a crown or not. They have their own agenda which may be very damaging or even dangerous.
Get the tooth pulled.
Quote from: Wahoo Redux on December 19, 2023, 10:13:45 AMQuote from: kaysixteen on December 18, 2023, 09:03:50 PM1) I confess I am trying to ascertain why exactly it is that it is so hard for many people here to grasp the reality that I cannot afford such work, even if I thought I needed it (I've no dental pain, and no visible cracks, etc., nothing really much different from my last physical a year ago).
We get that.
Peeps here have expressed concern for you. The bacteria in your dead tooth do not care if you can pay for a crown or not. They have their own agenda which may be very damaging or even dangerous.
Get the tooth pulled.
We are kind of worried about you, kay. This sounds like a serious situation. Prayers for you as you seek a solution.
On further reflection, I recall that, last month, when I had this annual dental physical, w. x-rays, the dentist immediately noticed the two teeth that had the cavities needing to be filled, and arranged to do so, but then also noted the tooth that she thought might need a crown, saying something to the effect that she would have her staff ascertain whether my ins would cover that. This does not fill me with inordinate confidence in the necessity of such work. Truth be told, though I have the tooth number that supposedly would be crowned, and of course I could look up where this tooth is in my mouth (dentition numbers are apparently standardized), I see no cracks, feel no pain, and notice no substantive difference from last fall. IOW, this cannot possibly be urgent, esp since, when the dentist office called up to confirm that my insurance would not pay for this, and I told the person I was not going to have the work done at this time, she just acknowledged this (admittedly she is a receptionist/ secretary, rather than any sort of med professional), and I have not received any follow-up calls from the office saying that the dentist feels this to be essential work at this time, an attitude pretty consonant with her original remarks last month.
this cannot possibly be urgent
Well, good then. Now you can eat all the chestnuts you want to over the holidays.....and move on to other complaints.
Hope you found a dentist who is not only affordable, but also quite professional. Here, in the big city, I've had to contend with very greedy and unscrupulous dentists who wanted to pull out several teeth, among other dishonest recommendations. On one occasion, immediately after the extraction of an impacted wisdom tooth, the dentist suggested that I have one of the teeth on the other side of the mouth extracted then and there. I refused, as I never make medical or financial decisions unless I'm sitting up and fully awake. This was an expensive dentist, and the teeth that he wanted pullled are still there, six or seven years later. I subsequently found a good dental practice, and have been happy with them because they recommend treatments, but leave it up to me to decide.
Just chiming in to reiterate that dental issues should be treated promptly, not all dentists are honest or scrupulous, and that going to the dentist is quite expensive. I would suggest asking for referrals.
Quote from: kaysixteen on December 18, 2023, 09:03:50 PM2) The nearest dental school is probably 60 miles away. I could go there, I guess, but I ain't willing to become a practice guinea pig for trainees, like it or not, and have such students be drilling into my mouth, perhaps to make a mistake before their teacher/ supervisor could intervene, any more than I would ever permit such a trainee ophthalmologist to perform the laser treatment or eyeball injections I have needed for my eye condition. I get that such trainees need to be trained in order to be able to do these procedures going forward, but respectfully, they are going to have to find other test dummies.
I had a major dental procedure done at a dental school. They did a great job and at no point in the process did I feel like I was in danger of being mistreated as a guinea pig. The details are a little hazy because it was a long time ago, but the students were definitely supervised and not left to their own devices. And it was highly affordable!
Quote from: permanent imposter on December 27, 2023, 08:21:39 AMQuote from: kaysixteen on December 18, 2023, 09:03:50 PM2) The nearest dental school is probably 60 miles away. I could go there, I guess, but I ain't willing to become a practice guinea pig for trainees, like it or not, and have such students be drilling into my mouth, perhaps to make a mistake before their teacher/ supervisor could intervene, any more than I would ever permit such a trainee ophthalmologist to perform the laser treatment or eyeball injections I have needed for my eye condition. I get that such trainees need to be trained in order to be able to do these procedures going forward, but respectfully, they are going to have to find other test dummies.
I had a major dental procedure done at a dental school. They did a great job and at no point in the process did I feel like I was in danger of being mistreated as a guinea pig. The details are a little hazy because it was a long time ago, but the students were definitely supervised and not left to their own devices. And it was highly affordable!
When we were kids, and my mother was a struggling single mom she took us to USC dental school for free treatments. Worked great for us.