A recent post prompted this thread, replicating a couple similar threads on the old forum.
Sharing needs and solutions is the point....like everything else, really on these threads.
M.
Thanks for starting this thread, mamselle.
For context, this is the post on the venting thread that led to the creation of this thread: https://thefora.org/index.php?topic=64.msg19955#msg19955
I'm so overwhelmed trying to keep all my plates spinning: class, lab, quals preparation, physical therapy, significant other, doctor visits. My doctors want me to start an intensive outpatient psych program (10-20hr/week) because of frequent suicidal/self-harm urges, but I look at the calendar and don't see how I can possibly do it. I could theoretically work later into the night and work more on the weekends to get everything done, but realistically, I know I wouldn't have the stamina.
Current strategy: grit teeth and power through until I get past immediate upcoming academic hurdles, thus freeing up more time to focus on getting treatment. I'm almost done with the non-research requirements for my doctoral program: complete one more course, TA one more term, complete oral quals. If I stay on course, I'll be in the sweet land of full-time research (and a more flexible schedule) by the summer. It seems so close, and yet, so far...
FWIW, three of the women I went to grad school with have CFS. Well, three as far as I know.
They've had a devil of a time getting taken seriously, both by medical professionals and by the people around them. It sounds absolutely debilitating and awful, and I'm horrified by how quickly it's laid low three exceptional scholars, to the point where two have left academia entirely and the third is plotting exit strategies, because maintaining a regular teaching load just isn't possible.
So, although I have nothing much to contribute to this thread beyond hearing and believing you (and them), and checking my own behaviour, I'll be following the thread with interest.
Yours in solidarity,
-Para
Thanks for starting this; I finally read on the venting thread what you did, mamselle, and I'm sorry. My daughter did that same break trail running, and it sucks. The problem is that you rarely do it without a concurrent sprain, and that takes longer to heal (the force required to break that bone usually comes with enough force to also torque the tendons). Anyway, speedy healing to you. She was crutching it pretty quickly and convinced them to give her a walking boot, which probably wasn't the best solution long-term, but she had an active job working with dogs at the time and couldn't be off her feet for that long (go American working environment!).
Anyway, for those of us dealing with chronic conditions, which I have for many years, there seems to be a cycle. I am better for a while, then I have a cycle of bad times (I'm currently in a really good phase; when you saw me, mamselle, I was in a medium-good part of the cycle, but I'm doing pretty fantastic in terms of self-care and feeling good right now, so I'm wondering when the crash will come :D). When my pain levels and exhaustion are high, I feel like I am dragging through my days, and I don't usually have the feeling that any good spell will come back. Mine is chronic thyroid issues that they can't seem to get a handle on (I have a decent endocrinologist but in spite of regular changes to my dosage and being on brand-name synthroid, I can't seem to get a steady dosage - it seems like every 3 months they change my dose). I've tried cytomel to add T3 but it makes me feel even worse. Right now, though, I think they've gotten it dialed in, and it'll be good till I start having heart palpitations from it being too high :D.
I also have RA, and I think the current "good spell" comes from a combination of the synthroid dose being ok with a remission period. I took methotrexate when I was first diagnosed, and that was a really rough period (plus I was writing my dissertation, it was in my hands, and I had to get accommodation to take my Qualifying exams; that sucked). But that seems to be stable now, although my hands look...interesting. I use a Mac keyboard which is soft, but I'm looking into virtual keyboards for an even better experience. This has definitely cut into my research, though - I've focused on more teaching-centered positions because they involve less writing.
Anyway, that's my story; my university has been pretty accommodating. I teach fully online (I use a lot of voice to text and video feedback methods to reduce my typing loads, and the students like that) so I don't have to go in as often, which is really splendid of them.
Quote from: smallcleanrat on February 03, 2020, 02:47:21 PM
Thanks for starting this thread, mamselle.
For context, this is the post on the venting thread that led to the creation of this thread: https://thefora.org/index.php?topic=64.msg19955#msg19955
I'm so overwhelmed trying to keep all my plates spinning: class, lab, quals preparation, physical therapy, significant other, doctor visits. My doctors want me to start an intensive outpatient psych program (10-20hr/week) because of frequent suicidal/self-harm urges, but I look at the calendar and don't see how I can possibly do it. I could theoretically work later into the night and work more on the weekends to get everything done, but realistically, I know I wouldn't have the stamina.
Current strategy: grit teeth and power through until I get past immediate upcoming academic hurdles, thus freeing up more time to focus on getting treatment. I'm almost done with the non-research requirements for my doctoral program: complete one more course, TA one more term, complete oral quals. If I stay on course, I'll be in the sweet land of full-time research (and a more flexible schedule) by the summer. It seems so close, and yet, so far...
Do you have the option of paid leave for medical reasons?
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on February 03, 2020, 02:52:08 PM
FWIW, three of the women I went to grad school with have CFS. Well, three as far as I know.
They've had a devil of a time getting taken seriously, both by medical professionals and by the people around them. It sounds absolutely debilitating and awful, and I'm horrified by how quickly it's laid low three exceptional scholars, to the point where two have left academia entirely and the third is plotting exit strategies, because maintaining a regular teaching load just isn't possible.
So, although I have nothing much to contribute to this thread beyond hearing and believing you (and them), and checking my own behaviour, I'll be following the thread with interest.
Yours in solidarity,
-Para
I appreciate this message, Parasaurolophus. Being taken seriously has definitely been an issue at times; and I've encountered doctors who got annoyed when I want advice beyond "learn to live with it". I even met one who said, "Well, you've seen a lot of other doctors and they weren't able to help you. I don't know what you expect me to do." This was someone I had had to wait 3 months to get in to see. To get to his office, I had to bus nearly 3 hours one way. He gave me all of five minutes of his time before brusquely shooing me out the door.
Had I given up there instead of pursuing further medical help, I never would have improved enough to start my PhD program. I'd probably still be unemployed with little hope for the future.
Para, do you know what your former classmates are doing/planning to do instead of academia? I feel I really should think about backup plans in case things don't get better or things get worse for me.
Quote from: backatit on February 05, 2020, 04:41:58 AM
Thanks for starting this; I finally read on the venting thread what you did, mamselle, and I'm sorry. My daughter did that same break trail running, and it sucks. The problem is that you rarely do it without a concurrent sprain, and that takes longer to heal (the force required to break that bone usually comes with enough force to also torque the tendons). Anyway, speedy healing to you. She was crutching it pretty quickly and convinced them to give her a walking boot, which probably wasn't the best solution long-term, but she had an active job working with dogs at the time and couldn't be off her feet for that long (go American working environment!).
Anyway, for those of us dealing with chronic conditions, which I have for many years, there seems to be a cycle. I am better for a while, then I have a cycle of bad times (I'm currently in a really good phase; when you saw me, mamselle, I was in a medium-good part of the cycle, but I'm doing pretty fantastic in terms of self-care and feeling good right now, so I'm wondering when the crash will come :D). When my pain levels and exhaustion are high, I feel like I am dragging through my days, and I don't usually have the feeling that any good spell will come back. Mine is chronic thyroid issues that they can't seem to get a handle on (I have a decent endocrinologist but in spite of regular changes to my dosage and being on brand-name synthroid, I can't seem to get a steady dosage - it seems like every 3 months they change my dose). I've tried cytomel to add T3 but it makes me feel even worse. Right now, though, I think they've gotten it dialed in, and it'll be good till I start having heart palpitations from it being too high :D.
I also have RA, and I think the current "good spell" comes from a combination of the synthroid dose being ok with a remission period. I took methotrexate when I was first diagnosed, and that was a really rough period (plus I was writing my dissertation, it was in my hands, and I had to get accommodation to take my Qualifying exams; that sucked). But that seems to be stable now, although my hands look...interesting. I use a Mac keyboard which is soft, but I'm looking into virtual keyboards for an even better experience. This has definitely cut into my research, though - I've focused on more teaching-centered positions because they involve less writing.
Anyway, that's my story; my university has been pretty accommodating. I teach fully online (I use a lot of voice to text and video feedback methods to reduce my typing loads, and the students like that) so I don't have to go in as often, which is really splendid of them.
Thanks for joining the thread, backatit. I know the frustration of the transience of good spells. A treatment strategy seems to be working until one day it no longer does...
Quote from: Anselm on February 05, 2020, 07:54:20 AM
Do you have the option of paid leave for medical reasons?
I don't know how the finances would work out, but I probably have the option of some kind of medical leave. However, I really want to avoid that if I possibly can. Besides complications like probably losing student housing, making progress in my schooling and research is the only thing keeping me from feeling completely useless. Medical leave can be very isolating. Without my work to provide me with goals and some kind of structure, I worry I would completely unravel.
Feeling irrationally upset over not being able to have a cat (yet).
I live in student housing with a no-pet policy. Yet the neighborhood teems with people walking dogs and cats peering out of windows. My SO talked to some of the animal owners and they all told him they're emotional support animals (and that it's incredibly easy to get approved for one). My SO and others kept encouraging me to apply for one since I love cats and dogs so much, but I held off for a long time. I was hung up over the requirement that the animal be "necessary" to mitigate the effects/symptoms of a disability. I didn't want to exploit the system by requesting an accommodation I didn't strictly "need".
I've found animals to be a great comfort during bouts of anxiety or pain (there is something about a warm, purring feline that soothes in a way no heating pad ever could); they can also help ground me during times when I am struggling against thoughts of self-harm. But is this a need or a 'would-be-nice'? My SO encouraged me to send in the application and let the housing accommodations committee decide.
The letter I got back from them was not a rejection; it was a request for more information (apparently, my doctor only wrote a very brief, 3-sentence note). They told me they didn't have sufficient info to decide whether I actually had a disability (even though I have records on file with the disability office), or what the cat is actually going to be doing for me. They also took issue with my doctor requesting I be allowed to have a "pet" cat, saying support animals are not pets; pets will not be approved. My doctor's been out of town, so he hasn't responded to my messages asking him if he could write another letter.
It sounds like the issue is just that my doctor needed to be more thorough. I'm reasonably optimistic I will get approval eventually. But I am feeling the same way I've felt every time an insurance provider declines to cover a test or treatment because they don't deem it "necessary": guilty, useless, and weak. Part of me interprets these things as saying "You are not really that sick. You are not suffering that much. You don't need this. You should be able to deal with it on your own. The people who get approved for these things have real issues. You are just wasting everybody's time asking for things you don't deserve." I know this is a foolish overreaction, but I don't know how to turn it off...
Do NOT internalize those messages.
Do NOT.
We on this thread will all tell you not to.
So, DON'T.
<<channeling Octo's stern gaze>>
I'd ask a different doctor, if possible.
Or ask the people who supply care animals for some sample letters or phrases to give your doc.
It's true they get busy and don't realize that a catch-phrase means something specific in a field not directly connected to the Latin words for bones. (A social worker at a hospital where I used to work had a bunch of pages like this for required letters for things like senior care center admissions, etc.)
You're probably right, and the word "Pet" was a trigger for the people vetting the letter.
(The letter-vetters? Oh, dear, a new Dr. Seuss character has appeared in my brain...licking a pencil point and wearing a green eyeshade...)
I agree about cats.
They know your soul.
M.
Chiming in with Mamselle.
I stayed home today--a teaching day--even though I was really hoping to get through the spring without any sick days. After all the months of delay and drama over finally getting the ADA accommodation to a 2-day-F2F teachinig week, I can just imagine the nimrods in HR saying, "Wait! We gave you a shorter work week--why are you still taking sick days?!". (Then again, knowing said nimrods, they very well might not even notice until after I retire in a few years.)
Kid #1 was finally diagnosed as bipolar recently (really? We've known this for years), but because of several severe concussions, so psych meds aren't a serious option. Long story short, she was great over the weekend, then yesterday showed up NOT good, at all. It's all resolved, and she's better now, but the stress put me over the edge. I was feeling like I'd been run down by a tank by 10 a.m., and it went downhill from there. After finally giving in and taking a pain pill at bedtime, there was no way I was going to try to get up--and drive an hour in to work hung-over and woozy--at 5 a.m. today.
Oh, well, life will go on. Today was going to be an in-class read, analyze, and discuss day, and we can pick it up next week with no harm.
Is anybody else dealing with S-I joint dysfunction? Mine is of the "sorry, you're kind of screwed" variety, as my ortho put it. PT makes it unbearable and isn't improving the function anyway; surgery will do more harm than good; and the $8000 "steroid shot under live CT" routine made it feel great--for about 3 hours--so no more of that for me, thanks. (Besides, I'm diabetic, and steroids shoot my blood sugar through the roof.) Pain management is pretty much what I have to look forward to, but I'm putting it off as long as possible, as I saw Mom through about 5 years of it--again, no, thank you. Any fellow SIJD people, feel free to PM me, for support and mutual sorrows.
OK, I'll stop whining. Here's wishing everyone better days!
Quote from: AmLitHist on February 13, 2020, 11:10:46 AM
I stayed home today--a teaching day--even though I was really hoping to get through the spring without any sick days. After all the months of delay and drama over finally getting the ADA accommodation to a 2-day-F2F teachinig week, I can just imagine the nimrods in HR saying, "Wait! We gave you a shorter work week--why are you still taking sick days?!". (Then again, knowing said nimrods, they very well might not even notice until after I retire in a few years.)
Kid #1 was finally diagnosed as bipolar recently (really? We've known this for years), but because of several severe concussions, so psych meds aren't a serious option. Long story short, she was great over the weekend, then yesterday showed up NOT good, at all. It's all resolved, and she's better now, but the stress put me over the edge. I was feeling like I'd been run down by a tank by 10 a.m., and it went downhill from there. After finally giving in and taking a pain pill at bedtime, there was no way I was going to try to get up--and drive an hour in to work hung-over and woozy--at 5 a.m. today.
Oh, well, life will go on. Today was going to be an in-class read, analyze, and discuss day, and we can pick it up next week with no harm.
Is anybody else dealing with S-I joint dysfunction? Mine is of the "sorry, you're kind of screwed" variety, as my ortho put it. PT makes it unbearable and isn't improving the function anyway; surgery will do more harm than good; and the $8000 "steroid shot under live CT" routine made it feel great--for about 3 hours--so no more of that for me, thanks. (Besides, I'm diabetic, and steroids shoot my blood sugar through the roof.) Pain management is pretty much what I have to look forward to, but I'm putting it off as long as possible, as I saw Mom through about 5 years of it--again, no, thank you. Any fellow SIJD people, feel free to PM me, for support and mutual sorrows.
OK, I'll stop whining. Here's wishing everyone better days!
AmLitHist, so sorry you are having to deal with your pain on top of being there for your daughter. Hers sounds like a rough situation; I hope she is still doing better now.
I'm still marking time until I can see my doctor again. Office has been unusually unresponsive lately; I sort of feel abandoned. And I need to figure out how to explain how bad the suicidal impulses are without leading anyone to think I need to be sectioned. I've been using minor self-injury to cope, but it only helps for an hour or two at a time. I tried one of those suicide hotlines during a bad spell, but felt worse after talking to them than I did before. The responses were just so cookie cutter: "That must be rough." "I bet that's frustrating." But I'm not really sure what else they could have done when they are working with minimal information about a person's situation. I feel stuck.
Do you have any friend who could stay with you or with whom you could visit?
The minor self-injury strategy is best avoided in whatever ways possible.
As you note, it's not a lasting solution, either.
Thinking of you.
M.
AmLitHist, I have a similar issue with one of our kids (we have 4; all with varying issues, but one daughter is having some serious issues lately, resulting in me having to come stay with her for a bit), so if you ever need to talk to someone who's been there, done that, let me know. I have a good therapist and I have to lean on him a lot to deal with boundaries and stress. Sometimes I feel like she's going to drag me and my partner down with her...sometimes work is a balm, and sometimes I feel like I can't cope with student's issues at the same time(which are petty, or not-so-petty, but seem really removed from ours at the moment).
Smallcleanrat, I'm sorry that you're having difficulty getting your pet approved. My daughter has a therapy dog, and I've noticed that she helps her, and her counselor also has a therapy dog who works with her, and you might look for that as an option in the meantime. She was able to get in fairly quickly by explaining to the practice that she was in crisis, and they had a sliding scale so that was good. I helped her find this style of therapy via a google search, so it might be worth looking into in the meantime (she needed trauma-based counseling for something that had happened to her, and so we were looking for a very specific set of therapeutic methods). I agree with Mamselle - it would be ideal if someone could stay with you; otherwise is there someone you could call or text when you're feeling bad? There is a tendency not to reach out for support because you feel like you're a burden, but I can assure you that we NEVER feel like that with my daughter, and her friends do not either. We've talked to all of them these past few weeks, and they have been very reassuring and one has come to stay with her from time to time when she's had a particularly rough day and I had to be back home.
Going to try to post here again when I can be more coherent, but had a therapist appointment today that left me feeling lower than dirt. Towards the end tears were rolling down my face and when she said she had to stop (even though we had started late and our allotted time wasn't over yet) I grabbed my stuff and bolted away so I could finish crying I the bathroom.
Psychiatrist's office is still not very responsive about getting me an appointment time. I haven't had an appointment for over a month.
I want help. I'm asking for help. But the people who want to help me don't know how and the people who should be helping me don't seem to hear me.
Quote from: smallcleanrat on February 21, 2020, 01:50:14 PM
Going to try to post here again when I can be more coherent, but had a therapist appointment today that left me feeling lower than dirt. Towards the end tears were rolling down my face and when she said she had to stop (even though we had started late and our allotted time wasn't over yet) I grabbed my stuff and bolted away so I could finish crying I the bathroom.
Psychiatrist's office is still not very responsive about getting me an appointment time. I haven't had an appointment for over a month.
I want help. I'm asking for help. But the people who want to help me don't know how and the people who should be helping me don't seem to hear me.
Yuk!
I'm very sorry you had to deal with that.
Good for you for going to the appointment and for doing whatever you had to do to finish it for yourself.
That is NOT how you're supposed to be treated!
Did they say "why" they had to stop? Surely they've dealt with people in tears before!
Stay strong. (At least you know you're stronger than one therapist in the world!)
M.
Quote from: mamselle on February 21, 2020, 02:51:04 PM
Quote from: smallcleanrat on February 21, 2020, 01:50:14 PM
Going to try to post here again when I can be more coherent, but had a therapist appointment today that left me feeling lower than dirt. Towards the end tears were rolling down my face and when she said she had to stop (even though we had started late and our allotted time wasn't over yet) I grabbed my stuff and bolted away so I could finish crying I the bathroom.
Psychiatrist's office is still not very responsive about getting me an appointment time. I haven't had an appointment for over a month.
I want help. I'm asking for help. But the people who want to help me don't know how and the people who should be helping me don't seem to hear me.
Yuk!
I'm very sorry you had to deal with that.
Good for you for going to the appointment and for doing whatever you had to do to finish it for yourself.
That is NOT how you're supposed to be treated!
Did they say "why" they had to stop? Surely they've dealt with people in tears before!
Stay strong. (At least you know you're stronger than one therapist in the world!)
M.
No, she didn't say why we had to stop. She gave no indication she even noticed the tears.
I'm paraphrasing in the following paragraphs because I was too upset to form clear memories of her exact wording (I generally have a good verbal memory).
I was frustrated because I wanted to specifically address the constant suicidal thoughts. But she spent most of the time lecturing me on the importance of sleep and exercise. She's given me near identical lectures in previous sessions; it really was not helpful to hear it again. In fact, it really wasn't helpful to hear her say it the first time, as I already knew it coming in. She knows my background is in biomedical research...
When I mentioned having had a frustrating experience with a suicide hotline, her only commentary was about how "Well, a lot of people
do find them helpful." She asked me no questions about the circumstances under which I felt distraught enough to use a hotline, or what about the experience was so negative for me. Why didn't she care about this? This is what I need help with. Not middle school-level health science lessons.
When I brought up my experience trying to get an emotional support animal approved, she told me I don't qualify for one and that housing should not approve the request. I mentioned there are tons of animals around our no-pet grad housing, and their owners claim they are emotional support animals. She said, "They aren't support animals. They are pets that people pass off as support animals so they don't have to pay extra rent or airline fees."
Apparently, she was on some advisory committee a few years ago attempting to make the rules for support animals in student housing more stringent (but she complained the stricter rules hadn't gone into effect yet). She says the only people who truly
need support animals are people who are so dysfunctional that they cannot leave the house or interact with other people without that animal. She says she's only met 2 or 3 people who truly qualify in her entire career. An animal shouldn't be approved just because it makes you feel better; it has to be undeniably necessary for you to function. And this person needs to be unable to get support from other people, including clinicians and therapy groups. If they can get support from people, they don't need an animal.
Me: But I read the housing guideline's list of criteria, and all it said was --
Therapist: I know what the criteria are! I know them very well. You don't qualify.
She is a colleague of my psychiatrist. Perhaps she will speak with him and convince him not to write me another letter.
The whole exchange made me feel like I was just another person trying to game the system; an entitled snowflake who thinks the rules shouldn't apply to her. This hurt...a lot. I always aim to behave conscientiously and legitimately, because I know cheating can hurt other people. I pay for my music downloads, I don't litter, and I refused to comply with my friend's prompting to go to the ER with a non-emergency problem after spending hours hopping from one overbooked urgent care clinic to next.
I broke down crying out of guilt when the urgent care doctor I finally got in to see chastised me for coming to urgent care: "You have [a lot of health issues] going on, and you're already on multiple medications. I don't want to make a treatment decision for you because of this. You really should have gone to see your primary care physician; you should have known urgent care can't do anything for you." I had tried to make an appointment with my primary care doctor; the closest date they had available was over 3 weeks away. One of my legs was tremoring and spasming so badly, I couldn't walk without someone helping me stay balanced. I had come into the clinic using a friend as a human crutch. It didn't seem like something to put off addressing for 3 weeks... But I still felt tremendous guilt for wasting other people's time.
This was a similar situation.
I hadn't seen this therapist in two months. Hadn't seen my psychiatrist in over a month. Weeks ago a professor contacted the student counseling center on my behalf and told me they would get in touch with me. Haven't heard anything.
If I actually killed myself, I wonder how long it would be before any of my treatment providers found out? Apparently I can just drop off the radar for weeks to months without any of them asking questions.
Oh wow, smallcleanrat. What a terrible experience. It's not you; it's her. That therapist sounds awful. You need a better one. Even if you're currently stuck with medical professionals who don't care, that doesn't mean nobody cares. You shouldn't feel guilty about advocating for your health.
Does your student counseling center take emergency walk-ins? The one on my campus does. That seems worth exploring unless you know for certain that yours doesn't.
I agree - check with your center on campus. Ours also does walkins. You need a new therapist without such a specific agenda. I have a friend who works for the agency who approves support animal applications and unfortunately there are people who share your therapist's opinion, but at least as many who do not.
Well, your therapist sucks. It's not you.
I recommend calling the psychiatrist's office immediately, using the messaging service if needed, to let someone know about the suicidal ideation. Keep calling the suicide hotline, odds are you'll get a different person who should be more helpful. And as backatit mentions, contact your campus counseling center.
Edited to add: the feelings of guilt and desperation are part of the depression. Medical care in this country is a customer service business. If you are not getting the service you deserve, it's perfectly acceptable to go to another provider or demand better treatment.
Thanks so much to everyone who replied. It really helped me feel less alone in this.
Checking the website, it doesn't look like our counseling center does walk-ins, but there is an after hours crisis number to call. I'm ambivalent about using this. The crisis services I've tried before were chat/text-based; I find it difficult to speak coherently when I'm mentally in a bad place. I'm also afraid if I say the wrong thing they will send police after me to force me into a hospital (something that's been threatened before).
This is also the center that referred me to the therapist in the first place saying she was "very, very good."
I'm still feeling pretty low from yesterday. My mind is spitting out thoughts that part of me recognizes as unwarranted and part of me feels are definitely true.
For instance,
Event: Therapist tells me I do not and absolutely should not qualify for an emotional support animal (even though my psychiatrist thought it would be good for me). I am surrounded by support animals in the student housing complex. I know at least two people at lab who say they had no trouble getting letters and approval to live with their emotional support animals.
My Brain: The people with animals deserve them; you do not. You are being irresponsible, selfish, and insensitive to people who are truly suffering by elevating your problems to be on par with theirs. You were trying to abuse a system designed to help people with real problems. The people who got their animals approved succeeded; you have failed (although I cannot pinpoint a specific thing I failed at; I just feel a failure).
Event: I tell the therapist I have been suicidal, and in enough distress to feel the need to reach out to a suicide hotline. She doesn't ask what happened, doesn't ask whether I'm feeling suicidal now, doesn't ask about whether I feel I can keep myself safe. She is finished with the topic in under two minutes, even though this is the only reason I wanted to talk to a therapist. I run out of her office crying. She does not ask about this either or send any kind of follow up message to check in with me.
My Brain: I'm just an annoyance to her. She doesn't care whether I live or die. Or she doesn't believe me; she thinks I'm playing it up for attention. Maybe she wants me to kill myself. Maybe ignoring the issue is her way of daring me to do it.
Before this, I had the frequent ideation and urges, even went so far as to research and work out details, but I fought against the impulses because I didn't want to die, and I knew the people around me didn't want me to die either. Now the old depressive convictions I haven't felt in years are creeping back and settling in: that people are sick of me and would prefer I die, that I deserve to die because I've failed to make good use of my life and will only continue to fail if I go on...
I know it's an overreaction. I know it's stupid. But I'm so tired; I feel so useless; and I don't know how to get myself out of this when I can't think clearly.
As I said before, that therapist sucks. I would not describe her response as competent.
People are in your corner, rooting for you. The depressive thoughts are not "you." The real you has a lot to offer the world.
Chime to spork, and the above comments.
YOU ARE A VALUED HUMAN BEING AND YOUR ISSUES ARE WORTHY OF ATTENTION AND HELP.
Do you have a close enough relationship to any of the people in your building with a support animal that you could ask how they traversed the requirement tree and who they found to be helpful?
Your therapist has control issues that are unrelated to your value or needs; they can't be helpful to you because they haven't gotten their own countertransference out of the way (translated: they need therapy themselves if this is how they present professionally).
Do not absorb their issues empathically in order to absolve them and give them a place in your mindspace. Let them go and focus on the next thing you can do for yourself.
You can do this.
M.
Dear smallcleanrat,
Please know that you are not alone. You don't have to feel better right now; you just have to keep going. Distress line operators are usually pretty good at listening even if you feel incoherent. If you get one who isn't, try again. If you get a psychologist who isn't, try again. Just keep going--even though it's hard and exhausting.
I'm trying to think through this support animal issue more thoroughly and rationally. Googled "support animal ethics" and pulled up all kinds of articles and editorials, some from mental health professionals. Trying to sort through factors to consider...there are a lot of conflicting opinions.
Maybe I'll make this its own thread; there was a related thread not too long ago, but it was about the specific problems of having a dog in a lab (not clear from the OP if it was a service dog or support animal; huge difference...), not about support animals in general.
I still very much want the cat (I think it would really help me reduce the self-harm behavior), but I need to figure out whether getting him approved as a support animal is justified or just taking advantage of a system with regulations far laxer than they should be.
I talked to the two lab friends about the process of getting their dogs approved. Apparently, all they had to do was get a letter from their doctor ("so-and-so has a diagnosed mental illness...the animal would help alleviate some of their symptoms"); they got no push-back or argument from building management (but they are not in student housing; perhaps student housing is just pickier). I don't know all the specifics of what exactly went into the letters, but one friend said the only rationale her doctor had to give was that a dog's need to be walked daily would motivate her to get out of her apartment when depression lowers her motivation to leave home. She doesn't bring the dog to lab, so she can clearly function without it. But the dog improves her life.
I think one of the reasons I felt so upset was because so many people told me it was extremely easy for them to get a support animal approved. Since it's not proving to be easy for me, it gives me the sense that my issues are trivial compared to everyone else's. But I think that if I get any worse, I won't be able to function well enough to continue school, whether I had an animal or not.
I already have days when I have to avoid certain parts of the lab where sharp tools are kept or avoid certain parts of the building where it would be easy to jump out a window or off a stair landing. Over the weekend I had to draw blood several times via a couple dozen puncture wounds in order to get relief from suicidal urges. If other people are struggling with worse, how are they managing? What am I failing to do that they've figured out?
Some people in the grad housing have multiple animals, and the housing requirements state that any additional animal must be justified via a separate approval request form detailing what service the animal would provide and why this could not be achieved with a single animal. That sounds even more difficult; how did they do that? Could some of them be lying about getting approval? Maybe they never bothered, and only say theirs are support animals when asked so that nobody reports them?
My SO wants to bring the cat in anyway ("better to ask forgiveness than to ask for permission"; "what are they going to do? raid the place?"), but I know if we did this it would eat at me every day. I want to do this the right way...
Quote from: backatit on February 19, 2020, 07:36:25 AM
AmLitHist, I have a similar issue with one of our kids (we have 4; all with varying issues, but one daughter is having some serious issues lately, resulting in me having to come stay with her for a bit), so if you ever need to talk to someone who's been there, done that, let me know. I have a good therapist and I have to lean on him a lot to deal with boundaries and stress. Sometimes I feel like she's going to drag me and my partner down with her...sometimes work is a balm, and sometimes I feel like I can't cope with student's issues at the same time(which are petty, or not-so-petty, but seem really removed from ours at the moment).
Smallcleanrat, I'm sorry that you're having difficulty getting your pet approved. My daughter has a therapy dog, and I've noticed that she helps her, and her counselor also has a therapy dog who works with her, and you might look for that as an option in the meantime. She was able to get in fairly quickly by explaining to the practice that she was in crisis, and they had a sliding scale so that was good. I helped her find this style of therapy via a google search, so it might be worth looking into in the meantime (she needed trauma-based counseling for something that had happened to her, and so we were looking for a very specific set of therapeutic methods). I agree with Mamselle - it would be ideal if someone could stay with you; otherwise is there someone you could call or text when you're feeling bad? There is a tendency not to reach out for support because you feel like you're a burden, but I can assure you that we NEVER feel like that with my daughter, and her friends do not either. We've talked to all of them these past few weeks, and they have been very reassuring and one has come to stay with her from time to time when she's had a particularly rough day and I had to be back home.
backatit, not trying to be argumentative, but I don't understand how these two bolded statements are compatible. Would you be ok with elaborating a little more? How is feeling someone might drag you down different from feeling that they are a burden?
I've heard similar language from my family about how they've felt I was "dragging [them] down"; they've told me the stress of dealing with my issues is going to send them to an early grave ("I get so angry with your failure to get it together. When I think of you my blood pressure rises, and I feel like I'm going to have a stroke. Is that what you want? You want me to drop dead of a stroke?!?"); they've told me if I'm ever hospitalized again, I should consider myself disowned. I don't know they would actually do that last thing, but I do know they would consider it another failure on my part.
I can't remember if they ever used the exact word "burden", but "leech", "emotional vampire", and "weight around my neck" have been which seem to me similar enough in meaning.
smallcleanrat, I'm so sorry you've had such lousy support and awful comments from both your therapist and your family-- that's on them, not you.
In particular, the behavior you describe from your therapist is truly negligent and I would say constitutes malpractice. Fire her, report her (not necessarily right now, when you're better and have the energy for this), and find someone better (almost anyone would be better).
Do this now--The suicidal urges and self-harm you are describing are very serious and you need urgent care for them. Use your campus counseling center--be honest with them about what is going on, and I would be very shocked if you did not get an urgent appointment. On my campus any student reporting suicidal thoughts is seen immediately. If calling or walking over seems too hard, enlist someone's support to do it-- enlist a trustiest professor (I've called for and walked several students over), friend, or your SO.
And regardless of what your family says, there is absolutely no shame in being hospitalized if that is what is needed right now to keep you safe and get you treatment that will help.
This is no more your fault than a physical illness. You deserve the healthcare you need to treat it.
Once things are more stable you can go back to navigating getting the cat (and having a better therapist will facilitate that).
And please keep posting here-- we may be strangers on the internet, but there are a lot of people here thinking of you and wishing you well.
I agree with Puget: the suicidal urges and self-harm constitute an emergency. Putting yourself in the care of competent professionals is the best thing you can do right now. They can help get you into a better mental space where day-to-day life is much easier to manage.
Smallcleanrat, of course I'll be happy to elaborate. It's part of being a parent - things are complicated and often conflicting from one day to the next, even with one's adult children (I kind of left those two thoughts in opposition to illustrate that, but I probably should have clarified a bit and put them closer, but I'm struggling a bit myself right now so I'm a bit muddier than I am normally, which is pretty darned muddy sometimes).
Some days I do feel a bit like I'm drowning with our kids (especially our middle daughter - right now she's going through a crisis situation, and it IS draining and exhausting). But I also NEVER want her to feel like she can't come to me with it, because I recognize that my support is crucial. We struggle a bit with boundaries (we are both in therapy; separately and together; she lives in a different state, which contributes a bit to my own anxiety, but she doesn't want to move, so I have to balance support with letting go (she is in her early 20's, and we have always been very close and this is an ongoing issue of ours as she tries to become more independent which I support, while still trying to support her ongoing mental health issues) She's been suicidal in the past and I'm terrified this outside crisis will set her back so just telling me to step back doesn't always work all that well, you see. And the weight of the responsibility is not all that much, compared to how much I love her. She is not heavy :). I perhaps shouldn't be this honest in this thread about the mix of what I feel (I am semi-honest with her, actually, in that I articulate my own need for support from my therapist, and from my friends as I support her, in order to model that for her) because it may not be helpful for you. But maybe seeing how someone balances that might also be helpful, so I'm glad you asked me to explain further.
If you would like to talk to someone who specializes in approving emotional service animals, I happen to have a friend who works for the State of North Carolina and maybe she would be willing to talk to you about what to do - I know she can only reference her own states' requirements but she may know something about your state or may know someone in the pipeline in other states (or she may not - she's fairly new in her job). PM me if you're comfortable doing that with just the state information and I'll ask her.
Re: support animals, in another context, I realized I know someone who volunteers on an equestrian therapeutic farm in the south; if getting an animal to come to you at the moment is hard, is there any chance of visiting one of the places where they are kept and trained?
Or, I know one local school near me that had visiting animals during exam week (a friend and I attended, just to see how they handled the program; her church may be doing something like that soon). Apparently, the visiting dogs we saw go on weekly rotation to two or three schools in the area, and are available for private times as well; in a different (graduate) school I know of, two or three of the grad schools in that university have worked together to book a constant weekly time for their students (I think theirs is Wednesdays at 3 PM) as well as having some on-call availability.
I know the person who arranges for that; I could ask what they know about more broadly available programs in other areas, as well.
M.
Thanks again for all the replies and encouragement.
I'm still struggling a lot with the self-harm. Caused more damage than I meant to with the last bout; nothing that won't heal given time, but I guess this is why I really need a better way to cope.
backatit, thank you so much for sharing a parent's perspective. I do appreciate your honesty about how your daughter's struggles can cause a lot of distress for you. I was in my teens when my issues started, but I didn't get a diagnosis or any kind of treatment until my early 20's. I'm well past that age now, so my parents have had to deal with the stress of having an adult child still struggling to function independently for quite a while now. I try to have compassion for them; I know some of their anger is really an expression of fear. They worry about me.
I don't keep them very informed about my mental health or treatments because they don't believe in psychiatry or medication (for any illness at all). We've had some heated arguments in the past on the value of Western medicine and the evils of "Big Pharma". My mom calls people who take medicine "druggies" who are destroying their bodies, even if it's just over-the-counter aspirin. They insist that no matter how many degrees I get they will always be older and wiser, thus I should defer to their opinions. They prefer "natural" and mystical-type "cures" for reasons that still elude me. They get angry if they feel I'm withholding information from them (Mom once insisted she has the right to read the notes from all my therapist sessions to see if I'm saying anything bad about her; Um...no, Mom. No you don't), but I just don't have the energy to engage in the same old arguments.
mamselle, I do like your suggestion about looking for other types of opportunities to spend time with animals. My SO is always on the lookout for animal-related events: adoption fairs, cat conventions, etc... He also snaps pictures of cute dogs and cats he happens to encounter and shares them with me. It's his way of expressing love and showing me he's thinking of me.
I do love interacting with the animals, but there's always some sadness that the encounters are so brief. It's not the same as bonding with a specific animal and nurturing that bond over time. One of the best feelings in the world is being an animal's favorite person. I grew up with a dog I could always count on for a nuzzle and a cuddle when I was sad; and I was always the person he ran to for play or affection or comfort. We made each other feel loved. I miss that.
Have you read Educated by Tara Westover? You might find it an interesting example of someone who chose life over a non-supportive, dysfunctional, and in the end abusive family. I'm not saying your own family background is as terrible as hers, but you might find the book inspiring.
You need competent professional assistance. Now. The suicidal urges and self-harm you describe are not something you can work through on your own.
Another way to be in touch with furry four-foot critters over a longer period is to volunteer in a shelter.
The cat thread (Herd Your Cats Here) discusses that often: two or three forumites are longstanding volunteers and post about their friends.
There are also some vets offices that have one or two slots for volunteer caregivers, or in some cases, paid short-time assistants who help walk or do basic cage care and feeding for animals that board there.
I'm glad your appointment is coming up soon (interthreaduality); I agree it's important to be very clear about all that's going on, and I'm very glad your PI remains supportive.
M.
Quote from: spork on February 29, 2020, 03:27:39 PM
Have you read Educated by Tara Westover? You might find it an interesting example of someone who chose life over a non-supportive, dysfunctional, and in the end abusive family. I'm not saying your own family background is as terrible as hers, but you might find the book inspiring.
You need competent professional assistance. Now. The suicidal urges and self-harm you describe are not something you can work through on your own.
Thanks for the reading recommendation, spork. I grabbed a copy from our library; I'm about 50 pages in so far.
I'm definitely seeking professional assistance... It's a lot of trial and error.
dragging...dragging...dragging...
May have been overambitious with work this week. Planned way too many experiments considering I just started an outpatient program which is in itself a significant time commitment.
I'm exhausted without being sleepy. Just shutting down. Trapped in a heavy fog. Trying to get my body in motion for lab-work. Trying to get my mind to focus on all the reading and writing I've got to get through today and tomorrow; assignment is due, has to happen somehow. No real mood tonight; no sadness or anxiety or frustration; just nothingness.
Odd thought warring with urge to jump out window: My desk is untidy. I can't leave behind a messy desk for someone else to deal with. That's just inconsiderate.
Most likely won't do it. Just like I haven't done it all the other times I've thought about it, even the times I've opened the window, sat on the ledge, and dangled my feet imagining what the fall would feel like. Getting to a point of feeling pathetic for thinking and talking about something so long without going through with it. Don't like being wishy-washy. Still, the desk...and I don't know how many other loose ends to be tied...
I've been trying to get clear of this fog for years. I'm running low on optimism. I don't want this to be my life; if it's not going to get better what's the point of this struggle? I'm no use to myself like this; no use to anyone else either.
Probably need to find a place to curl up and close my eyes for a bit. See if I can recharge just enough to finish today's tasks.
EDIT: And....just sliced a finger on a piece of equipment. At least it was the last lab task of the night.
Take care of yourself-- the tasks can wait, taking care of your health cannot. Ask for an extension, go on leave if you need to-- treatment takes priority right now.
That you have to acted on these thoughts makes you strong, NOT weak. You have the strength to continue even if you can't see a better future yet. Keep talking, keep checking in. The more you talk about these thoughts to people who care about you, the less power you give the thoughts over you and the more chances you have to finds support. Rest now and go to your treatment tomorrow. Be kind and gentle to yourself. You are loved and valued even when you can't love yourself.
Quote from: smallcleanrat on March 09, 2020, 05:15:04 PM
dragging...dragging...dragging...
May have been overambitious with work this week. Planned way too many experiments considering I just started an outpatient program which is in itself a significant time commitment.
I'm exhausted without being sleepy. Just shutting down. Trapped in a heavy fog. Trying to get my body in motion for lab-work. Trying to get my mind to focus on all the reading and writing I've got to get through today and tomorrow; assignment is due, has to happen somehow. No real mood tonight; no sadness or anxiety or frustration; just nothingness.
Odd thought warring with urge to jump out window: My desk is untidy. I can't leave behind a messy desk for someone else to deal with. That's just inconsiderate.
Most likely won't do it. Just like I haven't done it all the other times I've thought about it, even the times I've opened the window, sat on the ledge, and dangled my feet imagining what the fall would feel like. Getting to a point of feeling pathetic for thinking and talking about something so long without going through with it. Don't like being wishy-washy. Still, the desk...and I don't know how many other loose ends to be tied...
I've been trying to get clear of this fog for years. I'm running low on optimism. I don't want this to be my life; if it's not going to get better what's the point of this struggle? I'm no use to myself like this; no use to anyone else either.
Probably need to find a place to curl up and close my eyes for a bit. See if I can recharge just enough to finish today's tasks.
EDIT: And....just sliced a finger on a piece of equipment. At least it was the last lab task of the night.
Quote from: Puget on March 09, 2020, 09:10:55 PM
Take care of yourself-- the tasks can wait, taking care of your health cannot. Ask for an extension, go on leave if you need to-- treatment takes priority right now.
That you have to acted on these thoughts makes you strong, NOT weak. You have the strength to continue even if you can't see a better future yet. Keep talking, keep checking in. The more you talk about these thoughts to people who care about you, the less power you give the thoughts over you and the more chances you have to finds support. Rest now and go to your treatment tomorrow. Be kind and gentle to yourself. You are loved and valued even when you can't love yourself.
Thanks for the words of support, Puget. It was a positive message I could focus on. I think I need to avoid late nights alone in the lab for a while. Being alone seems to make things much worse.
My next outpatient visit is tomorrow. It's been an interesting experience so far, if not directly helpful yet. Best thing I've got out of it so far is meeting the other patients and hearing their experiences and perspectives. There is a common theme of "I thought I'd be further along in my life by now."
Ended up rescheduling some of the lab tasks to spread out the work. Also got an offer from a labmate who saw I wasn't feeling well to be an extra pair of hands on one of my experiments later this week. I've been pretty lucky to end up in such a friendly and collegial lab.
Decided to turn the assignment in almost-but-not-quite completed. As long as I pass the course, it's fine. I don't need to ace it; gpa is fine (if it matters at all beyond staying above the threshold to continue the program).
But I don't just want to get by; I want to feel alert, alive, and part of the world again. I don't know how much longer I can stand being trapped in this fog.
I'm encouraged, too, by your well-thought-out responses to the things you're dealing with.
Re-scheduling lab tests to spread them out over time is wise, it reduces pressure in ways that are negotiable and have no-harm/no-foul dimensions.
Being able to accept an "OK" grade to pass instead of pushing for perfection is huge--it takes some people a lifetime to learn that.
A preacher at a chapel program in a high-pressure school once spoke about overcoming the "disease of perfectionism," and the tendency to make an idol of "the perfect." Another in the same community once spoke of the need to learn to value "satisfaction" over "success"--messages I've often also had to contemplate.
Avoiding late nights alone and getting help from (I agree, wonderful) labmates is also a good plan.
Keep at it, you're making good choices and moving forward at your own pace.
And you clearly have people in your court....that's so cool.
M.
Sitting in lab trying to clear my head.
Completely unable to participate in today's therapy groups due to crying through every session. Not much noise; no sobs; just a heavy feeling and tears spilling out continuously. I don't really know why.
Social worker tried to talk to me at the end of the last session, but all I could really say was I wanted to leave. He asked if I felt safe, I muttered "I don't care", and walked out. He let me go saying he'd call me tomorrow. Not that I really wanted to be detained, but the fact they let me go so easily seemed a bit off to me.
Just sitting now. How is it possible to feel empty and heavy at the same time?
Feel like I'm shutting down. Heavy, tired, foggy.
Yesterday sat on the ledge of an open top floor window staring down. Not sure how long. Normally I don't like heights; even when feeling suicidal, looking down can make me feel uncomfortable. Yesterday, I didn't feel anything. It didn't seem real. I don't remember climbing back down but logically I must have.
Why can't I take that final step? If it's because deep down I don't want to die, then why do I think about it all the time?
It sounds as if you've been holding on to a lot of pain for a very long time.
Beginning to address it is both scary, and, well...ugly. A lot of that stuff is swirly, dark, and smelly, and having the courage to look at it straight on doesn't make it any more pleasant.
It's also hard, sometimes, to see how someone else can help, but that doesn't mean they can't, just that you're exploring new territory in letting them into the ugliness you've been curating.
The fact that you now have the support to do so is important; next time the group leader asks you if you want help, maybe you could nod and ask "how can you help me?" since it might not be clear to you, but they might in fact be able to do so.
M.
Quote from: mamselle on March 12, 2020, 12:48:19 PM
It sounds as if you've been holding on to a lot of pain for a very long time.
Beginning to address it is both scary, and, well...ugly. A lot of that stuff is swirly, dark, and smelly, and having the courage to look at it straight on doesn't make it any more pleasant.
It's also hard, sometimes, to see how someone else can help, but that doesn't mean they can't, just that you're exploring new territory in letting them into the ugliness you've been curating.
The fact that you now have the support to do so is important; next time the group leader asks you if you want help, maybe you could nod and ask "how can you help me?" since it might not be clear to you, but they might in fact be able to do so.
M.
It's like I can't wake up properly. It's hard to interact with people when I feel this tired and foggy. Sometimes it feels like I have to make a conscious effort to breathe.
The outpatient program is a lot less structured than I thought it would be. There is no set schedule for the therapy groups, so it's a toss-up whether the days you are scheduled to go in will coincide with groups that are relevant to you. I end up sitting in groups like Anger Management, which I don't need, just because that's what happens to be available. Tried to attend a Distress Tolerance group only to be turned away because it was full. So far, there hasn't been a single group that directly addresses self-harm or suicidal ideation or intrusive thoughts or dissociation.
The advice is also pretty generic and nothing I haven't heard before.
-Try to find a way to distract yourself.
[I can't do this forever. I'm so, so tired. I don't know how long I can keep this up.]
-Don't be afraid to reach out to friends and family for support. Concerns that you might look weak or that you are burdening them are based more in your insecurity than reality.
[Eh...not my family. And I've definitely had friends pull away and shut me out, even if I didn't reach out to them. The fact that I was having issues at all made them uncomfortable enough to cease contact. Sometimes a person may want to help but not know how (or be willing and able to provide that help). In which case, you haven't made your situation better, you've made theirs worse by adding stress and guilt. And even a supportive person can get burned out if they are simultaneously dealing with their own issues or if you try to lean on them too frequently. This rarely gets mentioned.]
-Remind yourself that you won't feel this way forever, that you can get through this.
[Except that isn't always true is it? I may never be free of this. I meet people in the program who are 10, 20, 30 years my senior who've been in treatment for decades. They are still miserable. I've tried so many therapies. So many medications. It helps, but it never gets me back to the way I used to be. Every time I think I may be breaking free, I'm pulled back down again. This latest downswing has lasted almost five continuous years. I've been striving, fighting...but now I am utterly exhausted.]
If it's not going to get better then what I need is guidance on how to reevaluate my identity and goals in life. I push through with my grad school work under the assumption that someday I will be stronger. I will regain energy. I will no longer lose touch with reality. I will regain my previous range of thoughts and emotions instead being stuck in this muted internal existence. If my assumption is faulty and none of this is going to happen, I don't see how I can sustain a research career. I just won't have the stamina to continue year after year.
If this diminished existence has become my new baseline, it changes the way I think about my life. SO wants to raise a family. I sometimes wonder if the most loving thing I can do for him is to let him go so he can find a partner who can definitely do this with him. I don't know if I have the strength to get through a pregnancy and birth. I'm terrified of post-partum depression and psychosis. Even if we can adopt, there's still the question of whether I can be the parent a kid deserves. How can I take care of them, bond with them, make sure they feel loved if there is always this haze of fatigue and depression separating us? Who wants to be raised by a zombie?
I'm not consciously trying to shut down. I'm trying to reactivate. But if I'm fighting a losing battle, then the struggle is pointless.
smallcleanrat, I hesitate to suggest both these things because I'm definitely not a healthcare provider but--
1) It may be time to consider seeking in-patient treatment to keep yourself safe as you work to get better. At the very least you need a good safety plan. From what you've been posting I'm very worried about you.
2) You may want to talk to your psychiatrist about whether trying ketamine may be an option. It may not be, and forgive me if you've already explored this, but it has shown a lot of promise for folks who have not responded to other treatments and who are actively suicidal. When it works it works fast, and can provide a jump start to engage more effectively with CBT and other therapies.
Since you're in the field, I'll leave this link here in case you want to learn more about the science behind it:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089662731930114X
Hang in there-- there is hope! If not from this medication, then from other drugs and therapies down the road.
I'm glad the outpatient program has some of the things you need, sorry it may not offer everything, but it's important that you have a contact there and are in touch with others as well.
I'm also wondering, along the lines Puget mentions, if they have any part-time admission programs: a friend dealing with depression a while ago was able to be out during the day for some number of hours, then check back in at night and over the weekends, so as not to be unsupported in the kinds of times you describe, when structured work was finished and she found herself dealing with her more difficult thoughts and feelings alone.
The fact that you are consistently trying, working towards health, and staying aware of your needs and responses means that you have the resources at hand that you need to pull through.
You become stronger as you fight the fog. It may be tiring, but you're showing yourself each day that you can do it. And you're building resilience.
Did you also realize you're an encouragement to others? Your transparency and courage are valued.
And I wouldn't focus too much on children right not. You are parenting yourself through a birthing process right now, you are giving birth to a new, healthier self and that's as much as you need to focus on right now.
If SO is a cool as he appears to be, he'll understand, and be able to wait for you to be in a better place in order to decide.
Step at a time, a day at a time.
You can do this.
M.
Quote from: Puget on March 12, 2020, 05:41:15 PM
smallcleanrat, I hesitate to suggest both these things because I'm definitely not a healthcare provider but--
1) It may be time to consider seeking in-patient treatment to keep yourself safe as you work to get better. At the very least you need a good safety plan. From what you've been posting I'm very worried about you.
2) You may want to talk to your psychiatrist about whether trying ketamine may be an option. It may not be, and forgive me if you've already explored this, but it has shown a lot of promise for folks who have not responded to other treatments and who are actively suicidal. When it works it works fast, and can provide a jump start to engage more effectively with CBT and other therapies.
Since you're in the field, I'll leave this link here in case you want to learn more about the science behind it:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089662731930114X
Hang in there-- there is hope! If not from this medication, then from other drugs and therapies down the road.
Thanks, Puget. (Especially for the link)
Maybe going in-patient is a good idea, but I'm considering that a last resort. For patient privacy, most units don't allow cell phones or laptops, so it would mean difficulty communicating with my friends and my partner and no chance of getting any work done. I'm too worried about losing my place at school; it's not always easy to reintegrate. Even though it frustrates me that I am nowhere near performing at full capacity, being a part of this lab and working on this project gives me a big reason to keep fighting. If I lose that, I will feel adrift.
Talked to a different social worker at the program yesterday. Told her about the loss of hope, sitting on the window ledge, etc... She ended up calling SO to work out a plan for the weekend to make sure I do not spend any time alone (allowing for suicide opportunity); I see her again Monday to check-in. It sounded as if she would have made me an inpatient if I lived alone and couldn't have someone checking on me frequently outside a hospital environment.
Because I feel so shut down and foggy, it's easy to imagine just opening up a window and casually flinging myself out. I had a vague notion earlier that if I jumped I might fly; but there's enough rational thought to recognize this might not be true. There's also a dremel in the lab and it would be easy to do some serious damage with it; I've found myself toying with it by getting the blade as close to my skin as possible without actually touching. It's this dreamy state of unreality that dampens fear of consequences.
I still feel so worn out. I want to wake up and be able to think clearly, but nothing is working. I slept, ate, took a walk, tried to shock my system by hugging a large frozen ice pack, tried to have a conversation with SO...nothing is bringing me out of it. I think last week some switch flipped in my brain. I've gone from fighting the suicidal thoughts to fighting whatever is holding me back from acting on the suicidal thoughts. It now feels like the right thing to do, and I feel ashamed that I have yet to follow through.
What's holding me back now is thinking of the consequences: other people will be hurt/traumatized emotionally, somebody's going to have the chore of cleaning out my things, many suicide attempts fail leaving the person alive but possibly seriously injured/permanently disabled... And it's not so much that I want to die as I don't want to live in this fog anymore. If it's going to be there for the rest of my life, why would I want that life to be a long one?
My psychiatrist gave me a referral for a TMS evaluation. I'm going in next week. They told me it has about a 50% success rate; not great, but not bad, I suppose. If that doesn't work, I think I will ask about ketamine. I had read that it induces a dissociative state, which was why I had no interest in it before; but I'm running out of things to try. Thought it was especially interesting the article mentions attempts to find a therapeutic dose that doesn't induce dissociation...
I know I'm supposed to keep fighting, but how can I do that when my head is so muddled? How can I wake up and muster the energy?
I'm glad the new social worker took you seriously and helped you make a safety plan.
I understand your reluctance to go inpatient but your level of risk honestly sounds really high right now, so it may be necessary to step away from the work for a little while in order to make it through this and come back able to function better.
Your SO cares about you. Your lab-mates care about you. Even strangers on the internet care about you. Just take it a day at a time-- you don't have to see you're way through yet, you just have to keep going for now.
Lab is shut down. Classes being taught online. All lab meetings through Zoom. I am not handling this well.
The outpatient program seems to have worsened my depression and suicidal thinking. Days I go in I usually do nothing but cry. It's difficult to concentrate and engage in the therapy groups. When I do participate I feel like I'm being dismissed rather than helped.
Been trying to explore other options, but things are so chaotic with the pandemic it's not easy to get people's attention.
Every day there is despair that physically pains me; my chest hurts and at times I have to fight to keep breathing. I'm so exhausted even minuscule tasks take a great deal of effort. People think it's when you are planning to act on suicidal impulses that you need help the most; but these periods in which I can keep myself alive but living just feels so wrong...these are the times I hurt the most because I don't have the comfort of thinking things will be over soon. These are the times I most crave comfort and a sense of belonging. But everyone is so stressed now; I've had friends contact me to vent, and it didn't feel appropriate to try to drag them into this.
I can't make a half-hearted, ill-planned attempt that just lands me in the ER. The health care system is overwhelmed as it is. It would have to be all or nothing.
Given what's happening, even people without chronic mental illness will be experiencing anxiety and depression. If I drop out of treatment it would free up space for someone who could actually be helped.
I've tried. I've really tried. But I'm not getting better and I just want to stop hurting. The more I think about it the harder it becomes to rationalize staying alive.
smallcleanrat, I'm very worried about you-- you deserve help and treatment, please tell someone immediately about these thoughts. Tell your SO if you haven't already and have him make a safety plan with you. Tell absolutely everyone in the treatment program till someone really takes you seriously. You are not thinking rationally right now-- you just need to hold on day by day till you are able to get more effective treatment. I really do think you need to be inpatient right now for your safety. Do this for the people who love and care about you if you can't do it for yourself right now.
Hello smallcleanrat, I have been a long-time lurker, since before the Fora separated from the Chronicle. I have just finally registered so that I can respond along with Puget.
DO NOT GIVE UP! Keep going to your treatments. You are NOT taking a place in treatment away from someone else. It is yours. Tell the therapist and others treating you what you've said in your last post. Tell them, and keep telling them, how close to the edge you are until they listen and do something about it. Keep going just one more day; keep doing just one more thing. Help is possible, more than possible.
Larimar
Chime to everything Larimar says.
Smallcleanrat, you don't have to feel better right now; you just have to keep going. Lots of people care about you--even people on an anonymous forum. So just keep going to the sessions and tell them over and over what you're feeling.
Hi smallcleanrat,
Very sorry you are so miserable. Count me among the many who care.
I know it's hard to believe now but you can feel better.
Please keep fighting.
Tell your partner. Tell your friends who are venting to you. You deserve their support, you are supporting them and you would always help a friend in need.
Please call 911 or the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-TALK (800-273-8255).
You matter. We care. You can get through another day and get the new help you deserve. Please.
I've been holding on and fighting for a long time now. I'm so tired now.
With the new policies keeping everyone at home, I don't actually have a lot of opportunity to carry out an impulse. My SO is home with me all the time. I don't think safety is a huge issue at moment. It's the constant emotional pain I don't know how to endure. Not anymore.
I've been pretty persistent with trying to explain the progression of my symptoms to my treatment providers. But the techniques they teach seem to make a lot of assumptions I don't think are always warranted. When I try to explain why I'm having difficulty applying them to my specific situation I get a generic "Hmm...I see how that can make things tough. Well, moving on..." Maybe individual therapy is better, but my experience has been that a lot of trial-and-error is required to find one that can actually help.
I can't really talk to any of my friends about this. One friend who knows a lot about my situation told me to keep things light if I want people to continue to feel comfortable talking to me. But I'm having difficulty eliciting even generic friendly conversation. I toss out a "What did you do this weekend?" message and get back "Oh, not much. Worked on some writing." I might follow up by asking what they were working on, but it often becomes clear very quickly they are not interested in conversation with me. Very rarely do I get any return questions on what I was up to or working on.
The few people who do know more about what I'm going through are quick to say "please get some help; go see a counselor; hope things work out for you", and then back off as soon as they can; it's just too uncomfortable. They've asked me how they can help; I've said I just want to talk to them more, it doesn't have to be about anything heavy, just some interaction to remind me I have a place in the world outside my apartment. They readily agree to this, but in practice haven't seemed that interested in following through.
I'm terrible company right now. I've been terrible company for awhile. Friendship should involve give and take, and I've got nothing to give.
Good to see your recent post, smallcleanrat. Hope you'll continue posting. I'm sure many on this board will be happy to communicate. I certainly benefited from your post about using the term "actually" with a student awhile back. : )
The friend who said to keep things light was insensitive. Probably well-meaning but inappropriate.
I'm sorry, but not surprised, about responses you've had from friends. It's not unusual. You said "Very rarely do I get any return questions on what I was up to or working on." In my experience, this is not uncommon, please don't take it personally. There are numerous friends and acquaintances who I check on: "how are your classes?" "how was your recent trip?" or "are you doing OK?" who go on to answer about themselves but never check on me or ask similar questions. A good friend of mine is in a knitting group. She always asks others about what they're working on. She said no on ever asks her about her projects. I told her "it's not you, it's them." It's just how some people are. Some are self-focused, some lack empathy (they can't help it), some have a social blind spot, some aren't warm and fuzzy, some are just trying to get through another day themselves.
Many are struggling under the stress and uncertainty of the pandemic crisis. This pain is not like yours but may constrain what people would otherwise be able to give in other circumstances. Again, I want you to know, that friends not behaving as you might wish isn't because you are not worthy, "are terrible company" or not a good friend.
My whole extended family, with a couple of exceptions, is like that.
They all have kids. I don't.
They're all Republicans. I'm not.
They mostly live in the South and the Midwest. I don't.
I'm willing to listen to the hockey exploits of this one's kid, the pretty-good theater gigs of that one. The announcer-for-the-high-school-football-games visibility of another. I congratulate them, give praise where it's due, and am truly glad for their joys and celebrations. (We avoid political observations....)
Then (sometimes) they ask about me. I excitedly tell them about my findings in this archive; my harrowing trip to Rouen to see that library, with a rail strike going on; my delight in my music student's new work on a hard piece.
Their eyes glaze over, they raise an eyebrow and say "Oh, that's nice," as if I'm making it up to impress them or trying to make them feel bad.
I'm not, I thought I was trying to share my joys at a level that matched theirs. But they don't get it.
So I've stopped attending big family reunions, and I relate to the one or two folks from my high school class who still connect at those deeper levels, and two or three faithful friends where I live now who are supportive, and a few others I've met in my travels with whom there's a strong connection--and that's it.
Even in the churches I've attended throughout my life, there are usually only a couple folks in any one place who hum at the same pitch--and I'm baffled, sometimes, at the level of incurious laissez-faire among those for whom I'd think some of my work and interests would be spot-on.
I've come to think we might each only have a few people here or there who really "get" us, and the point is to cherish those relationships, let the others go, don't expect so much of them, let them find their own forest of like-minded friends, and wish them well.
You can't change others and you can't change situations. You can only change yourself and how you respond to the situation.
Exercise your power where it lies.
M.
Quote from: mamselle on March 29, 2020, 02:35:17 PM
...
I've come to think we might each only have a few people here or there who really "get" us, and the point is to cherish those relationships, let the others go, don't expect so much of them, let them find their own forest of like-minded friends, and wish them well.
You can't change others and you can't change situations. You can only change yourself and how you respond to the situation.
Exercise your power where it lies.
M.
mamselle, the following is written from a point of frustration. But please know it is not intended as a swipe at you personally. I do appreciate you continuing to respond to my posts to add your perspective.
But....
I was looking for the equivalent of water cooler chat. Is that expecting "so much of them?"
And those last two lines are like salt in the wound at this point. No, I can't change others, but how much can I really change about wanting those connections and feeling pain over my failure to forge them? Some of these people I did consider myself close to; people who "get me" more than most. But like Cheerful says they are likely too buried under their own stress to be available. Knowing there is a reasonable explanation does not make me feel any less lonely. Exercise my power? What power? I'm so depleted of energy and hope. My mind is forever in fog. I hurt all the time. Treatment after treatment has failed to have any lasting impact. If I were a dog, I would have been euthanized long ago and replaced with a livelier pet. There's a reason they call it putting an animal "out of its misery".
smallcleanrat, I'm relieved to hear you are home with your SO looking out for your safety.
Sometimes when we need them most people don't show up for us. It's not fair, and it's not right, but it happens. Maybe they're self absorbed, maybe they are just overwhelmed, maybe they just don't know how to help and are scared to try, but whatever it is it is NOT your fault.
I for one would be happy to chat with you here. I know it's not the same, but let us be your digital water cooler buddies!
Yes, that's a great image.
Count me in as a water-cooler buddy!
Sorry if my post was upsetting; I actually do think you have a lot of power (if my physics class definintion still holds, power = force over time, and you are clearly exerting that, tiring as it may be: so, I would say in that sense, you really DO have power.)
But I agree, it's maddening sometimes.
In any case, I agree, please do continue to post, your voice is most welcome here!
M.
Thank you, Puget and mamselle.
I'll try to keep posting here. It does help to hear from other forumites.
Part of my frustration might be, with SO nearby at all times, I haven't been able to fall back on self-harm as a coping strategy.
Something new developed. For a couple of days going into the weekend I was convinced that if I stayed alive terrible things would happen to people I care about. I had vivid imagery going through my head of a lab mate being hurt in a car wreck, my PI developing some kind of serious illness, a friend's child being kidnapped, etc... It wasn't like a hallucination; I wasn't seeing things as if they were in front of my eyes. But it was more vivid than ordinary thoughts, like a vision (and I don't believe in psychic visions). It was scary and upsetting; I cried and felt conflicted, thinking that by not killing myself I was hurting other people.
My head was so hazy it was impossible to think rationally at the time.
These feelings gradually receded over the last couple of days. I don't know if I need a meds adjustment or if this is some combination of exhaustion and stress. I'm just glad I didn't send a flurry of messages checking the status of everyone I know. That would have been awkward to explain.
Quote from: smallcleanrat on March 29, 2020, 07:43:03 PM
Thank you, Puget and mamselle.
I'll try to keep posting here. It does help to hear from other forumites.
Part of my frustration might be, with SO nearby at all times, I haven't been able to fall back on self-harm as a coping strategy.
Something new developed. For a couple of days going into the weekend I was convinced that if I stayed alive terrible things would happen to people I care about. I had vivid imagery going through my head of a lab mate being hurt in a car wreck, my PI developing some kind of serious illness, a friend's child being kidnapped, etc... It wasn't like a hallucination; I wasn't seeing things as if they were in front of my eyes. But it was more vivid than ordinary thoughts, like a vision (and I don't believe in psychic visions). It was scary and upsetting; I cried and felt conflicted, thinking that by not killing myself I was hurting other people.
My head was so hazy it was impossible to think rationally at the time.
These feelings gradually receded over the last couple of days. I don't know if I need a meds adjustment or if this is some combination of exhaustion and stress. I'm just glad I didn't send a flurry of messages checking the status of everyone I know. That would have been awkward to explain.
Good, keep posting! We're here, and if we don't respond right away it's not because we don't care.
What you are describing are delusions. I'm sure they seem powerfully real, but they are not, as you know. It's good they've subsided, but I would definitely check with your psychiatrist about possible med adjustments, since you've had both hallucinations and delusions recently. I also think individual therapy is a really good idea, since the groups don't seem to be a good fit.
What are some healthier coping strategies that you could try? If the tools you're being offered in therapy aren't helping, perhaps you can enlist your SO to help you brainstorm some others. Anything that grounds you in the here-and-now, rational world and/or boosts your mood, even temporarily, is worth trying. Harness your skills as a scientist to experiment and see what might work for you.
[accidental duplicate post deleted]
Hi Smallcleanrat, I hope you're doing relatively OK. I looked for you at the watercooler, but didn't see you.
Quote from: Morden on March 31, 2020, 04:55:23 PM
Hi Smallcleanrat, I hope you're doing relatively OK. I looked for you at the watercooler, but didn't see you.
(Which is now located here: https://thefora.org/index.php?topic=1202.0 )
Thanks everybody.
I'll go check out the Water Cooler Chat thread.
I pulled out of the outpatient program and am focusing on getting TMS scheduled and finding an individual therapist. Head's a bit clearer for the last couple of days so I don't feel quite as wretched. The delusions really scared me; I desperately wanted to check that people I knew were ok, but somehow believed that checking in would actually make the bad things happen. So I just had to sweat it out. I hate the uncertainty that comes from not being able to trust your own brain. I really hope TMS makes a difference.