The Fora: A Higher Education Community

Quote from: mbelvadi on Today at 08:42:26 AMI completely agree with posters who point out that this is a curriculum issue - if a student CAN submit exactly the same work for two different courses, then there's too much overlap in those two courses for it to be academically legitimate for a student to get credit for both even if they don't copy themselves.

I had this one time and plagiarism software picked it up.  "Self-plagiarism" is not a big problem in writing courses, but it is a problem.  The issue is not curricular, it is simply students trying to use something they already wrote in another class and passing it off, which generally doesn't work. Generally, unless a student flunked or dropped out of the exact same class previously, they will turn in a paper that looks a little bit like the assignment but is not the assignment.  This has been my experience.  I have had other papers not caught by the software for which I've commented, "This appears to be a paper for a [XXX] class" and then graded them appropriately, which is to say, with a poor grade.  In other words, students will try to use past material in a class, but it generally does not work too well.

On other occasions I have read papers that look like, say, a history or a business paper that has been rehashed to look like the assignment.  But if the software does not pick anything up, what is one to do but grade the assignment on its merits, which again are not generally very good.

The problem is, did the student self-plagiarize, or did they just write a bad paper that does not follow the confines of the assignment?  Or did they try to write a paper like the one they wrote before rather than reading the specifics of current assignment sheet?  These things happen too.

So I, at least, don't see a curricular problem but a simple problem with students trying to pull a fast one (nothing new there).  Sometimes it will work, as will paying someone to write a paper for you, sometimes it will not.

At least we have software now.  In the old days instructors used to email papers around asking if anybody recognized it when they were suspicious.

My university's student code of conduct explicitly says that students cannot submit the same assignment in two different classes.

Honestly, a well-scaffolded assignment would mean the student would have to do the work in both classes anyway.  If all you are asking is a final draft, and there is no similar policy, I'm on the side of the student. 

If we say we value the process of creating an assignment/essay/lab report and not just the final version, then you need to include a few "work in progress" check points (outlines, lists of references, figures/data tables, etc.).

Quote from: apl68 on Today at 07:45:35 AMWonder whether those non-students spotted among the demonstrators are actually "professional agitators" from out of town, or simply local lewd fellows of the baser sort taking an opportunity to blow off some steam by joining a protest?  Either way, if the protest's organizers can't keep such people from co-opting their protest for their own purposes, they'd do well to reconsider the wisdom of these demonstrations.

I was on a "liberal" campus during the first Gulf War when we only had, like, a week to protest.  The students managed not to damage anything, but I became convinced that their motivation was not pacificism but the excitement and adventure of the protest.  I was a bit older than most undergrads, so while I went to see the show I wasn't terribly impressed. 

What we ended up with were a number of elderly hippies stoking on the disruption. I'm sure someone has done scholarship on this aspect of American college life, and I just wonder how much protest is genuine and how much is the perception on students' part that this is how they are supposed to object and express themselves.  Certainly it is okay to support Gaza in this situation and call on Israel to behave in a civilized manner (without being accused of antisemitism), I just wonder how much actual good it does for students to wreck their own campuses.

Regarding what else to include, I have heard from a number of reputable sources that Israel was on the cusp of signing an agreement with Saudi Arabia that would potentially have marginalized Hamas' support in the region and that the timing of the attack was specifically intended to derail that, which it so far did do.  Maybe that would be relevant in a discussion about the region?  https://www.britannica.com/topic/Israeli-Saudi-peace-deal

I completely agree with posters who point out that this is a curriculum issue - if a student CAN submit exactly the same work for two different courses, then there's too much overlap in those two courses for it to be academically legitimate for a student to get credit for both even if they don't copy themselves.

Also the term I hear for this issue to supposedly morally justify it is that it's "self-plagiarism" which is one of the most ridiculous oxymorons I've ever heard, much less seen taken seriously.

Count me among those who think that a policy of banning students from reusing their own work has no moral justification.

Good morning!

Past genius with pangram so far.  Congrats, Langue_doc! Yesterday we needed bee buddy help with could.

I also had the schmofficial jackpots-swirl after heading down other roads.

Happy solving!

Quote from: spork on May 01, 2024, 01:37:57 PMThe key sentence, in my opinion, is "You don't see this in lower tier schools from kids of lower socio-economic standing because they aren't plagued with the guilt of privilege that they're seeking to launder through Middle East role plays of feigned suffering."

Probably a good deal of truth to that.

Some of the stacked and overturned furniture in the photos in the article Langue_doc posted looks like that highly durable old-school wooden stuff.  It may well have been used for a similar purpose during the Vietnam-era protests.  At least they don't seem to have gone around wantonly breaking stained-glass windows in the buildings.

Wonder whether those non-students spotted among the demonstrators are actually "professional agitators" from out of town, or simply local lewd fellows of the baser sort taking an opportunity to blow off some steam by joining a protest?  Either way, if the protest's organizers can't keep such people from co-opting their protest for their own purposes, they'd do well to reconsider the wisdom of these demonstrations.

Thanks very much for the Cold War recommendation, spork.  Sounds worthwhile, will take a look.  Didn't know this was on Amazon Prime.  Had to do a title search after it didn't appear when skimming numerous relevant movie categories.

As a recent Amazon Prime subscriber, wading through the movie menus is a chore. Not interested in Freevee movies, hate the loud ads.  Any tips for efficiently finding movies aligned with one's interests on this platform?

Peak protest has come and gone. Final exams start soon. In another week, undergrads will have left campus.

Cold War (2018), a multinational European production now available on Amazon Prime. A torturous love story set in the first two decades of the Cold War in Poland, East Berlin, Paris, and Yugoslavia. Shot in black and white. Great cinematography and set design. Really evokes the period.