Surgeon General Worried/ Kids' Mental Health

[mahagonny]

I came in thinking Mahagonny was actually making an interesting thread for once, but then I read this:

I'm interested in the effect on children's mental health of being taught that they belong to either the oppressor race or the victim race, and that action to address this (version of) reality is urgently needed, and also probably futile. Also, I'm interested in who's making a point of not being interested.

Turns out it is yet another white grievance thread!

As far as I know, cognitive behavioral therapy isn't race-based, but it does discourage people from seeing themselves as victims because that undermines their mental health.

The "victim-oppressor" mindset is bad for the victims.

Absolutely right. To forfeit one's personal agency is tragic. Also false.
Not to mention some students and their parents understand themselves to be of mixed racial origin (as long as the woke-a-crats who populate their school's administration insist that everyone must claim a racial identity, which might not even be considered necessary were it not for the presence of these educators and their political agenda) so they find themselves in the stressful situation of having to choose which reason their lives are hopelessly ruined from the get-go, according to the new world view that these authority figures dictate. I suspect this also contributes to the depression the surgeon general notices. Some are beginning to fight back though. this would not mean they are not depressed. You could be fighting back because you are frightened.

[pgher]

Here's what I don't understand. Groups like the Southern Baptist Convention are up in arms over the idea of critical race theory, which teaches that our society is structured in ways that fundamentally advantage one group over another—or to put it another way, our society is structurally sinful. Yet at the same time, they subscribe to Calvin's doctrine of total depravity: human nature is thoroughly corrupt and sinful as a result of the Fall. If we are totally depraved, then of COURSE our society is structurally sinful. They don't want schools teaching kids that they are racist, but are happy to teach kids that they are sinners. Do they not see the contradictions?

[marshwiggle]

Here's what I don't understand. Groups like the Southern Baptist Convention are up in arms over the idea of critical race theory, which teaches that our society is structured in ways that fundamentally advantage one group over another—or to put it another way, our society is structurally sinful. Yet at the same time, they subscribe to Calvin's doctrine of total depravity: human nature is thoroughly corrupt and sinful as a result of the Fall. If we are totally depraved, then of COURSE our society is structurally sinful. They don't want schools teaching kids that they are racist, but are happy to teach kids that they are sinners. Do they not see the contradictions?

The big difference is that the doctrine of original sin applies to all of humanity. People aren't born into different levels of original sin, i.e. "privilege", and everyone must strive to overcome that tendency. (The desire to "oppress" is part of the human condition, not a result of belonging to a particular cultural or ethnic group.)

"There is none righteous; no not one."

That's antithetical to CRT.

[apl68]

Here's what I don't understand. Groups like the Southern Baptist Convention are up in arms over the idea of critical race theory, which teaches that our society is structured in ways that fundamentally advantage one group over another—or to put it another way, our society is structurally sinful. Yet at the same time, they subscribe to Calvin's doctrine of total depravity: human nature is thoroughly corrupt and sinful as a result of the Fall. If we are totally depraved, then of COURSE our society is structurally sinful. They don't want schools teaching kids that they are racist, but are happy to teach kids that they are sinners. Do they not see the contradictions?

My answer to that would be that critical race theory could be easily interpreted as implying that certain groups in society are bigger sinners than other by virtue of belonging to an "oppressor" race, as opposed to an "oppressed" race.  Which doesn't sound any fairer than the idea that some belong to "master" races and some to "slave" races.

I can also tell you that within Southern Baptist circles there has been a great deal of developing realization in recent decades of a need to move away from past racism.  You'll recall that some years ago the Southern Baptist Convention formally apologized for its origins as a denomination that broke with the wider Baptist fellowship in adopting a position of supporting slavery.  That was a huge mea culpa.  And it was done, like all Convention resolutions, by a majority of elected messengers from individual church congregations.  In other words, it had grass-roots support far beyond the usual institutional apologies that have become so common in recent years. 

Southern Baptists get it--we have a history of white supremacy, and that is a sin that we have to work on.  And it is understood to be an ongoing issue.  I've known a number of pastors--our own pastor is one--who have been quite outspoken about repudiating racism in our personal and institutional life and conduct.  Yet these same pastors are generally opponents of critical race theory, because they understand it as a radical ideology that is more likely to hinder rather than help reconciliation between the races.

[mahagonny]

In Christianity, you ask God to forgive you and he says 'sure, OK'. In CRT, the white man asks the black man for forgiveness, and the black man answers 'you don't even comprehend the evil that you are yet.' And black people mostly want nothing to do with anything so extreme. It's mostly radical white liberals and some black journalists, sports figures, academics et al who are making the noise. The majority of Americans recognize it as toxic but don't go around saying so, because if you do, you're called either Uncle Tom or white racist by the noisy mob.
Academia, of course, has been dying to get more blacks on the tenure track, which has been one the whitest places on earth. Therefore the plethora of 'why and how white people suck' graduate programs that have POC on the faculty.
I have a feeling we're gonna be making a U-turn in our public discourse when the democrats get their well-deserved disaster of an election year come November. One should hope, but not be complacent.

[Sun_Worshiper]

In Christianity, you ask God to forgive you and he says 'sure, OK'. In CRT, the white man asks the black man for forgiveness, and the black man answers 'you don't even comprehend the evil that you are yet.' And black people mostly want nothing to do with anything so extreme. It's mostly radical white liberals and some black journalists, sports figures, academics et al who are making the noise. The majority of Americans recognize it as toxic but don't go around saying so, because if you do, you're called either Uncle Tom or white racist by the noisy mob.
Academia, of course, has been dying to get more blacks on the tenure track, which has been one the whitest places on earth. Therefore the plethora of 'why and how white people suck' graduate programs that have POC on the faculty.
I have a feeling we're gonna be making a U-turn in our public discourse when the democrats get their well-deserved disaster of an election year come November. One should hope, but not be complacent.

This summary of it is hilarious.

I have to give you credit: It is impressive that you have such strong opinions about critical race theory while simultaneously knowing so little about it.

[mahagonny]

[snort] Ah, yes, CRT, that thing that, just maybe, exists, somewhere, it's like a heavy fog. You can never walk into the center of it. you can only see it in the distance.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3KWxcupP-w

'Antiracism,' dismantling white privilege, centering whiteness, dismantling white supremacy. One term is interchangeable with the next. The people who are want to insert this religion into our government, schools, 9-5 jobs, by mob rule, have all been smoking the same water pipe. Knowing who they are is enough, I have decided.
In a somewhat surprising plot twist, though, it turns out Kendi is a transphobic bigot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3KWxcupP-w
If the Baptists have been trying to make everyone in the USA into Baptists by that method, they surely have been doing a poor job of it. So they would be no threat to our freedom.
ETA: Scientology talks about 'engrams' which are mental/emotional obstacles to inner peace and happiness that exist in your soul over decades, centuries, and were caused by traumatic experiences that you experienced in a former life. That life and all your other ones are shrouded in mystery, which the medicine man will unveil to you by degrees. The highly trained auditor removes them, as though by surgery. It's not unlike a person today who has been convinced he walks around all day suffering from hurts his distant relatives endured. And someone comes along who wants to make you whole again.
Fairy tales.

[Sun_Worshiper]

Classic Mahagonny: threadjacking his own thread with a bunch of unhinged CRT posts.

[little bongo]

The pertinent bit begins at about 1:20:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2dj59Db1C4

[Hegemony]

The pertinent bit begins at about 1:20:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2dj59Db1C4

Hahahaha, Little Bongo, very apt!

[mahagonny]

Classic Mahagonny: threadjacking his own thread with a bunch of unhinged CRT posts.

If it's not too much to ask, please observe my preferred pronouns. I am gender non-binary.