A student was scheduled to give a class presentation a few days ago and he did not show up. Upon checking my emails later, I found that he sent an email 1/2 hour before class to tell me that he wasn't feeling well (of course) and wants to schedule it for later in the semester. I do have an opening later in the semester but I don't want to allow him to reschedule. What would be the best way to handle this? In terms of grading, if I don't allow him to reschedule, should I just give him a 0 for the assignment or let him submit his powerpoint and outline for a reduced grade?
Could be performance anxiety.
Quote from: MProust on October 19, 2019, 09:57:00 AM
A student was scheduled to give a class presentation a few days ago and he did not show up. Upon checking my emails later, I found that he sent an email 1/2 hour before class to tell me that he wasn't feeling well (of course) and wants to schedule it for later in the semester. I do have an opening later in the semester but I don't want to allow him to reschedule. What would be the best way to handle this? In terms of grading, if I don't allow him to reschedule, should I just give him a 0 for the assignment or let him submit his powerpoint and outline for a reduced grade?
Why don't you want to let him reschedule? And how much does the assignment count for?
The wisest thing is to outline ahead of time what is needed to be allowed to postpone the presentation. You don't want to penalize someone who actually does have the flu and who would either drag themselves to class and transmit it to everyone, or who would get a bad grade for wisely staying home. And of course you don't want to encourage slackers to just not show up. If you'd had clear instructions for these situations, your student might have shown up, or you would have been more certain that he was genuinely ill. Something like, "You are only allowed to skip and postpone your presentation in cases of genuine serious illness or emergency. Documentation may be required to prove this. You must give me notice as soon as you are aware of the difficulty, and we will discuss whether or not you will be allowed to do the presentation at a later date."
But in the current situation, you are in a tough place, because it's not really clear what your policy is, and the student may be trying to scam you, or may have been genuinely ill. I think it would be unfair to penalize someone who was genuinely ill. I think in your shoes I would tell the student that in order to think about postponing, they'd need to come in and talk to me, and then I would say, in my kindest voice (to encourage them to let down their guard), "Did you have something going on, or perhaps you were worried that your presentation wasn't quite ready and you'd be better doing it a different time?" And if they admitted to the latter, I would lower the boom and say, in a similar kind voice, "Well, I'm afraid make-ups for not being ready aren't possible, so that will be a failing grade for that. Do plan ahead next time, okay?" If they gave a persuasive account of illness, I'd let them make it up at the very earliest time possible (like, the beginning of next class) — since they presumably have it all finished and ready to go, right?
Quote from: Caracal on October 19, 2019, 12:09:15 PM
Quote from: MProust on October 19, 2019, 09:57:00 AM
A student was scheduled to give a class presentation a few days ago and he did not show up. Upon checking my emails later, I found that he sent an email 1/2 hour before class to tell me that he wasn't feeling well (of course) and wants to schedule it for later in the semester. I do have an opening later in the semester but I don't want to allow him to reschedule. What would be the best way to handle this? In terms of grading, if I don't allow him to reschedule, should I just give him a 0 for the assignment or let him submit his powerpoint and outline for a reduced grade?
Why don't you want to let him reschedule? And how much does the assignment count for?
Is he otherwise reliable? I'd be more forgiving if this was a fluke.
If giving a presentation was part of his/her job and it was a sales presentation to potential clients or investors, would it be OK to ditch the presentation if they are not feeling well? I'm sure that in this scenario, the student would take care of themselves and do the best that they can to avoid being sick, in the run up to the presentation.
I suppose the grade schools, middle schools, and high schools passed along this kid for you to deal with. Maybe you should just pass the kid on to a real life job and let life kick them in the teeth.
Quote from: lightning on October 19, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
If giving a presentation was part of his/her job and it was a sales presentation to potential clients or investors, would it be OK to ditch the presentation if they are not feeling well?
If they were really feeling extremely unwell? Yes, of course it would be ok. Most of the time you can muscle through, but it is possible to have acute illnesses where you really can't do it.
Quote from: lightning on October 19, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
I'm sure that in this scenario, the student would take care of themselves and do the best that they can to avoid being sick, in the run up to the presentation.
What a weird idea. Getting sick happens, it isn't always at convenient moments. I get sick more now that I have a toddler in school. When I got ill and missed a class last semester should my chair have lectured me about how I need to try harder not to get sick?
Quote from: lightning on October 19, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
I suppose the grade schools, middle schools, and high schools passed along this kid for you to deal with. Maybe you should just pass the kid on to a real life job and let life kick them in the teeth.
School, believe it or not, is actually part of the real world. An employer who didn't make allowances for people having rare, unavoidable illnesses would be a pretty crummy place to work and a job like that would chase away good employees. Now if you repeatedly kept cancelling important meetings at the last minute, and there wasn't some good reason, you probably would get fired, but that's about a pattern of flakiness.
This student might have been really sick, or maybe they are just being flaky. Personally, I'd just let them make it up, because it isn't much skin off my back. If this is flakiness, they'll probably not turn in other important things throughout the semester (heck I wouldn't be surprised if they don't show up at the make up either) if they are a good student who had an unfortunate situation, they'll show you that.
Quote from: mahagonny on October 19, 2019, 10:09:58 AM
Could be performance anxiety.
the reason I asked this was, not only is it relevant to how the grading is done and the absence is treated, but, it's something that can be worked on, but it needs to be faced and discussed. It may not be your specialty, but it's worth delving into for everyone's potential benefit.
Quote from: Caracal on October 20, 2019, 05:40:00 AM
Quote from: lightning on October 19, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
If giving a presentation was part of his/her job and it was a sales presentation to potential clients or investors, would it be OK to ditch the presentation if they are not feeling well?
If they were really feeling extremely unwell? Yes, of course it would be ok. Most of the time you can muscle through, but it is possible to have acute illnesses where you really can't do it.
Out here in the "real world", people cancel, postpone, and send substitutes all the time. The more important the thing, the more likely that a team is covering it so that it can go forward if one person fails ill, has an emergency, or something else comes up that's vital to the business.
Only in school does the big presentation fall on just one person.
Quote from: Hegemony on October 19, 2019, 05:28:04 PM
The wisest thing is to outline ahead of time what is needed to be allowed to postpone the presentation. You don't want to penalize someone who actually does have the flu and who would either drag themselves to class and transmit it to everyone, or who would get a bad grade for wisely staying home. And of course you don't want to encourage slackers to just not show up. If you'd had clear instructions for these situations, your student might have shown up, or you would have been more certain that he was genuinely ill. Something like, "You are only allowed to skip and postpone your presentation in cases of genuine serious illness or emergency. Documentation may be required to prove this. You must give me notice as soon as you are aware of the difficulty, and we will discuss whether or not you will be allowed to do the presentation at a later date."
But in the current situation, you are in a tough place, because it's not really clear what your policy is, and the student may be trying to scam you, or may have been genuinely ill. I think it would be unfair to penalize someone who was genuinely ill. I think in your shoes I would tell the student that in order to think about postponing, they'd need to come in and talk to me, and then I would say, in my kindest voice (to encourage them to let down their guard), "Did you have something going on, or perhaps you were worried that your presentation wasn't quite ready and you'd be better doing it a different time?" And if they admitted to the latter, I would lower the boom and say, in a similar kind voice, "Well, I'm afraid make-ups for not being ready aren't possible, so that will be a failing grade for that. Do plan ahead next time, okay?" If they gave a persuasive account of illness, I'd let them make it up at the very earliest time possible (like, the beginning of next class) — since they presumably have it all finished and ready to go, right?
Dosnt your university have a standard policy for this? We do, so it is quite easy to refer them to this. I am usually a little more flexible and would likely let them reschedule. Officially, they would need a doctor's note, but those are so easy to come by even for fake illness that I usually don't bother requesting them.
To me, I think having the student give the presentation is worth while.
The reason I doubt the student's veracity is that instead of emailing me the night before or the morning of to inform me that he was ill, he waited until 1/2 hour before class. Our uni does not have a policy for this particular situation.
Quote from: MProust on October 20, 2019, 07:40:41 AM
The reason I doubt the student's veracity is that instead of emailing me the night before or the morning of to inform me that he was ill, he waited until 1/2 hour before class. Our uni does not have a policy for this particular situation.
Well that could be the response of a panicked unprepared student, but it could also be someone who really didn't feel well. Last semester I woke up feeling bad and went to class, hoping I was just worn out and adrenaline would carry me through teaching. I made it through two classes, but I was feeling worse, not better. I really don't like canceling class, but when you hit the point where you're thinking about whether or not you're about to vomit as you lecture, it's probably time to pack it in, so I cancelled class an hour before it started and went home. A sequence like that would fit your student's behavior too.
Quote from: Caracal on October 20, 2019, 08:09:11 AM
Quote from: MProust on October 20, 2019, 07:40:41 AM
The reason I doubt the student's veracity is that instead of emailing me the night before or the morning of to inform me that he was ill, he waited until 1/2 hour before class. Our uni does not have a policy for this particular situation.
Well that could be the response of a panicked unprepared student, but it could also be someone who really didn't feel well. Last semester I woke up feeling bad and went to class, hoping I was just worn out and adrenaline would carry me through teaching. I made it through two classes, but I was feeling worse, not better. I really don't like canceling class, but when you hit the point where you're thinking about whether or not you're about to vomit as you lecture, it's probably time to pack it in, so I cancelled class an hour before it started and went home. A sequence like that would fit your student's behavior too.
I agree. I've certainly been sure I would be OK until it was clear I wasn't because I made a mad dash out of the room.
I remember one colleague who omitted the details but mentioned he was sure he would make that plane for the conference right up to the point that he was still lying on the floor in the restroom when the final boarding call came.
We have many stories about people's interviews that were interrupted by illness and you can be sure those folks would be grinning and bearing it if such were possible.
Most of the time students are exaggerating or fabricating illness. But since we can't always know this for a particular case, the best thing to do is have a clear policy in place.
School is different than the "real world" because here we are concentrating on developing independence and reliance on skills. Though we can certainly adopt group work, there has to be some arena in which the rubber hits the road and an individual shows his or her skills. However, foolish adherence to rules just for the sake of it doesn't really teach anyone anything. So, I'd maybe allow a re-scheduling due to illness if the person has proof, or reschedule anyway with a 10% deduction on the grade, etc.
In my school, everybody knows that one could pay to get a doctor's note without being sick. One could also tell the doctor that he feels "stressful" going to school or taking a test and get a doctor's note. Administrators told me that I cannot say I have enough of this and refuse to accept further doctor's notes. Other excuses include: forgot to bring a wallet so could not take a bus to school; home got robbed yesterday but the police could not come until the day of the test; two separate students told me that they had to take their family member to see a doctor; one told me that he was going to have a big surgery on the day of the test and required two weeks of recovery. Then, after the test questions were known, he suddenly informed me that he could come to school to take my test and a test of another course. One student missed weekly assignments for half of the semester. Then, he got a letter from an office about learning disabilities. This allows him late submissions. He asked me to allow him to submit all the previous assignments he missed. As I marked those assignments already, he knows the correct answers. All these happened whenever there was a quiz, an assignment due date or a test.
What is your late policy? Late is late no matter the measurement. Any grade appeal will hing on the application of the late policy.
I'd set an alternate date and make clear in writing the grade penalties assessed. If you don't at least try to make an accomodation, the student could claim extenuating circumstances. The other choice might be dropping the grade for the presentation and moving on. This student may be moving toward flaming out. If you think this is the case you could refer this student to the appropriate office for further counseling.
Good luck. Flaky students are exasperating.
Regarding those students who flake because they are scared of public speaking.
I've started letting students present a video with them narrating slides. So they don't have to talk to the class. I do like there to be some way for them to respond to questions even if they don't speak. It all requires a rather different skill set than standing in front of a class and talking live, but I think the skills are still useful. Maybe 10% of the students take this option.
OP,
Let him make it up. Convince him that you're his biggest fan until he asks you for a letter of recommendation. In that letter, destroy him. This is literally the only way you will ever get justice.
-Writingprof
Use wit and mind
To be more kind...
M.
Tell him to send the presentation (slides/research) he has prepared, and you will grade him on what is sent for content.
But you will him reschedule to do the actual presentation.
Quote from: bopper on October 21, 2019, 06:46:10 AM
Tell him to send the presentation (slides/research) he has prepared, and you will grade him on what is sent for content.
But you will him reschedule to do the actual presentation.
This is an excellent idea. But the student will inevitably say, "I was going to 'finish' it today but got sick." There's simply no way out of this for the OP but to give in completely or call bull&%$#.
Quote from: writingprof on October 21, 2019, 08:52:50 AM
Quote from: bopper on October 21, 2019, 06:46:10 AM
Tell him to send the presentation (slides/research) he has prepared, and you will grade him on what is sent for content.
But you will him reschedule to do the actual presentation.
This is an excellent idea. But the student will inevitably say, "I was going to 'finish' it today but got sick." There's simply no way out of this for the OP but to give in completely or call bull&%$#.
You can tell if the preso had any chance in heck of being ready, based on what they submit.
Quote from: ciao_yall on October 21, 2019, 09:11:40 AM
Quote from: writingprof on October 21, 2019, 08:52:50 AM
Quote from: bopper on October 21, 2019, 06:46:10 AM
Tell him to send the presentation (slides/research) he has prepared, and you will grade him on what is sent for content.
But you will him reschedule to do the actual presentation.
This is an excellent idea. But the student will inevitably say, "I was going to 'finish' it today but got sick." There's simply no way out of this for the OP but to give in completely or call bull&%$#.
You can tell if the preso had any chance in heck of being ready, based on what they submit.
I'm a fan of the "send me your slides" as well. A student who was basically ready and got puking sick will have a finished or nearly finished presentation.
You could also have them present to you in your office.
"Send me your slides" encourages students to put all their info on their slides.
You don't want that. Slides should have a few prompts and useful or pretty pictures.
The info should be presented orally in a presentation.
Maybe if the student has notes or a paper that goes along with the slides, some grade would be assignable. But then you are basically grading the notes, with some portion for the slides.
The central skill of an oral presentation -- speaking to people -- is not assessed.
Quote from: downer on October 21, 2019, 11:00:37 AM
The central skill of an oral presentation -- speaking to people -- is not assessed.
This.
Here's where a rubric is helpful. Most standard grading rubrics for oral presentations weight the oral components of the presentation at 65-75% of the grade. Turning in the notes with out performing the speech is part, but a minor part, of the final presentation. You can't assess presentation using the student's preparation and intentions.
I'm also on the side of letting students make things up. If it was going to be bad, it will still be bad later, too.
You stated that you had an opening in the course schedule for the student to do the makeup work.
I would recommend using it.
I would also recommend devising a formal syllabus policy for what students can and cannot make up (for each assessment type).
Quote from: writingprof on October 20, 2019, 06:23:19 PM
OP,
Let him make it up. Convince him that you're his biggest fan until he asks you for a letter of recommendation. In that letter, destroy him. This is literally the only way you will ever get justice.
-Writingprof
I hope you are not serious. I dont think you should put anything in a letter of reference that you would not say to someone's face, and definitely shouldn't give people a false sense of support only to screw them in secret.
Act like a grown up and deal with the issue, whether that is giving them a zero, allowing them to do it with a penalty, or just letting them reschedule.
These types of situations always lead me to conclude that NOT allowing them to simply make it up takes way too much energy and trouble (evidenced by the entire conversation of this thread).
Reschedule him and call it a day. If he's that flaky he won't make the rescheduled on either and then you give him a 0.
Quote from: Descartes on October 22, 2019, 07:13:38 AM
These types of situations always lead me to conclude that NOT allowing them to simply make it up takes way too much energy and trouble (evidenced by the entire conversation of this thread).
Reschedule him and call it a day. If he's that flaky he won't make the rescheduled on either and then you give him a 0.
+1 Amen to That
E-mail him a half an hour before the start of next class and tell him he will present at the beginning of class. If he was actually sick, this shouldn't be a problem as the presentaiton was presumably done.