With President Biden entering his lame-duck period tomorrow, it's time to discuss the 2024 elections.
I see President Harris winning reelection with 37% of the popular vote and an electoral college blowout. Former-President Trump will win 35% of the popular vote. The other 28% will go to Senator Romney.
The percentages might make sense if there's a viable third party candidate, though I doubt that would be Romney. Also, I think Trump really is one, though I admit I was wrong about him ever having a chance in the first place.
Well, I am unable to name names, but while Trump may be sent away, the Trumpists will still be there in 2024, perhaps in greater numbers.
Quote from: writingprof on January 19, 2021, 12:20:38 PM
it's time to discuss the 2024 elections.
Fuck me, what have you done?!
Quote from: writingprof on January 19, 2021, 12:20:38 PM
I see President Harris winning reelection with 37% of the popular vote and an electoral college blowout. Former-President Trump will win 35% of the popular vote. The other 28% will go to Senator Romney.
Quote from: Ruralguy on January 19, 2021, 12:31:26 PM
The percentages might make sense if there's a viable third party candidate, though I doubt that would be Romney. Also, I think Trump really is one, though I admit I was wrong about him ever having a chance in the first place.
At this point, I think Biden will just run again unless his decrepitude is too obvious to ignore (I think his glory-seeking will win out over sense and prompt him to try again). If he does, I currently think he will probably lose. And if it's Harris, I think she will have a tough fight of it.
As for Trump, I had him pegged to run and win in 2024 (despite his own decrepitude), but the Twitter ban has me reconsidering. If it sticks, then he needs to find a new magaphone. If it doesn't stick, we're fucked.
Sorry, meant to say Trump is done. Yes, his followers, and more loosely, Republicans and others who might vote for him after reconsidering the recent issues will still all be around.
It's too soon. (https://www.gocomics.com/bloomcounty/2013/05/30)
Considering that there's half a term to run out before either Biden or Harris or whoever becomes a candidate, yes, its too early.
Cant We WAIT to AT LEAST get the new administration inaugurated?
Quote from: pgher on January 19, 2021, 01:52:55 PM
It's too soon. (https://www.gocomics.com/bloomcounty/2013/05/30)
ROFLMAO
Kimberly Klacik is the closest thing to Trump I know of, and she looks like she's brimming with ambition. Cocky, vain, 'all American', confrontational, anti-government, pro-business, likes to go for the opponent's jugular, cult personality vibe....could be interesting. I think the republicans are in a good position now because the democrats think they're in a good position, which means they try things and then after a couple years the voters say "OK. Enough of this." As others note, Trump had such an impact he will leave a void and an opportunity. And Trump in a black woman's body - most provocative, as a challenge to the 'blame whitey and get government to fix everything' movement.
The only sure thing about 2024 is that Biden will be the Democratic nominee if he is healthy (far from assured). Beyond that, it is all guess work. How many people in 2012 thought Trump would be the nominee?
Quote from: mahagonny on January 19, 2021, 06:01:20 PM
Kimberly Klacik is the closest thing to Trump I know of, and she looks like she's brimming with ambition. Cocky, vain, 'all American', confrontational, anti-government, pro-business, likes to go for the opponent's jugular, cult personality vibe....could be interesting. I think the republicans are in a good position now because the democrats think they're in a good position, which means they try things and then after a couple years the voters say "OK. Enough of this." As others note, Trump had such an impact he will leave a void and an opportunity. And Trump in a black woman's body - most provocative, as a challenge to the 'blame whitey and get government to fix everything' movement.
I strongly disagree with the notion that Republicans are in a good position. Trumpism has failed electorally, but so has Romney-style traditional conservatism, so the party lacks a clear party identity or a platform that appeals to voters. The lunatic wing of the party is arguably a majority, and certainly their ideas are the ones that most electrify the base. As for Kimberly Klacik, she has none of Trump's celebrity or name-brand recognition, which were nontrivial factors contributing to his success, and I hate to break it to you but a black woman is not going to do well at the national level in today's Republican party.
Democrats have problems too, not least of which is that Biden will be 82 yrs old in November 2024, but moderates like Harris and Mayor Pete are popular within the party and have potential crossover appeal.
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on January 19, 2021, 08:09:11 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on January 19, 2021, 06:01:20 PM
Kimberly Klacik is the closest thing to Trump I know of, and she looks like she's brimming with ambition. Cocky, vain, 'all American', confrontational, anti-government, pro-business, likes to go for the opponent's jugular, cult personality vibe....could be interesting. I think the republicans are in a good position now because the democrats think they're in a good position, which means they try things and then after a couple years the voters say "OK. Enough of this." As others note, Trump had such an impact he will leave a void and an opportunity. And Trump in a black woman's body - most provocative, as a challenge to the 'blame whitey and get government to fix everything' movement.
I strongly disagree with the notion that Republicans are in a good position. Trumpism has failed electorally, but so has Romney-style traditional conservatism, so the party lacks a clear party identity or a platform that appeals to voters. The lunatic wing of the party is arguably a majority, and certainly their ideas are the ones that most electrify the base. As for Kimberly Klacik, she has none of Trump's celebrity or name-brand recognition, which were nontrivial factors contributing to his success, and I hate to break it to you but a black woman is not going to do well at the national level in today's Republican party.
Democrats have problems too, not least of which is that Biden will be 82 yrs old in November 2024, but moderates like Harris and Mayor Pete are popular within the party and have potential crossover appeal.
The appeal is they are not the democrats. And I think you are wrong about a black woman winning the republican nomination. The theory that many many republicans are racist (or even mysogynist - you don't actually think that do you, remember the love affair between Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, like 40 years ago?) derives from policies that democrats consider racist, such as handling immigration differently, no more government funded abortions, but that's not racism. That's policy difference. Well, we don't know what will happen. It's fun to speculate.
Quote from: mahagonny on January 19, 2021, 08:34:32 PM
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on January 19, 2021, 08:09:11 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on January 19, 2021, 06:01:20 PM
Kimberly Klacik is the closest thing to Trump I know of, and she looks like she's brimming with ambition. Cocky, vain, 'all American', confrontational, anti-government, pro-business, likes to go for the opponent's jugular, cult personality vibe....could be interesting. I think the republicans are in a good position now because the democrats think they're in a good position, which means they try things and then after a couple years the voters say "OK. Enough of this." As others note, Trump had such an impact he will leave a void and an opportunity. And Trump in a black woman's body - most provocative, as a challenge to the 'blame whitey and get government to fix everything' movement.
I strongly disagree with the notion that Republicans are in a good position. Trumpism has failed electorally, but so has Romney-style traditional conservatism, so the party lacks a clear party identity or a platform that appeals to voters. The lunatic wing of the party is arguably a majority, and certainly their ideas are the ones that most electrify the base. As for Kimberly Klacik, she has none of Trump's celebrity or name-brand recognition, which were nontrivial factors contributing to his success, and I hate to break it to you but a black woman is not going to do well at the national level in today's Republican party.
Democrats have problems too, not least of which is that Biden will be 82 yrs old in November 2024, but moderates like Harris and Mayor Pete are popular within the party and have potential crossover appeal.
The appeal is they are not the democrats. And I think you are wrong about a black woman winning the republican nomination. The theory that many many republicans are racist (or even mysogynist - you don't actually think that do you, remember the love affair between Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, like 40 years ago?) derives from policies that democrats consider racist, such as handling immigration differently, no more government funded abortions, but that's not racism. That's policy difference. Well, we don't know what will happen. It's fun to speculate.
Not really. Republicans are the party of confederate flags, the Southern strategy, and Birtherism. Trump was openly racist and an uncomfortable number of Republicans love him for it. Not to say that all Republicans are racist, but a sizable portion of the base - enough to prevent a black woman from getting the nomination.
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on January 19, 2021, 09:17:52 PM
Not really. Republicans are the party of confederate flags, the Southern strategy, and Birtherism. Trump was openly racist and an uncomfortable number of Republicans love him for it. Not to say that all Republicans are racist, but a sizable portion of the base - enough to prevent a black woman from getting the nomination.
You do realize, don't you, that this sounds like you think Trump got more black votes than any other republican presidential candidate, while being more openly racist and then capitalizing on that. It just sounds like there's something going on that you are not seeing. Hey, I'm not spinning it. I'm just understanding what you wrote.
Quote from: mahagonny on January 19, 2021, 09:38:31 PM
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on January 19, 2021, 09:17:52 PM
Not really. Republicans are the party of confederate flags, the Southern strategy, and Birtherism. Trump was openly racist and an uncomfortable number of Republicans love him for it. Not to say that all Republicans are racist, but a sizable portion of the base - enough to prevent a black woman from getting the nomination.
You do realize, don't you, that this sounds like you think Trump got more black votes than any other republican presidential candidate, while being more racist.
Trump won 12% of the black vote, which is nothing to brag about. This despite his open racism: He tells Congresspeople of color to go back to their country, he spread the idiotic and racist birther conspiracy theory, he said a Mexican judge can't give him a fair trial (amusingly because Trump himself is so racist), he courts racist militias, I could go on. Only a fool would deny that he is a racist and that an uncomfortable number of his supporters are racist.
And of course the data shows evidence that the Republican electorate is less comfortable with racial diversity than Democrats or independents: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/10/19/republicans-your-racism-is-showing/
Respond to the specific points I'm putting in front of you, including points about Birtherism and the Southern Strategy, or don't bother to respond at all. This thread has already been derailed (partly my fault).
With Trump not yet sent packing, though we be counting the hours, let's take a pass on humoring the crazy old uncles of the fora with indulging their desire to debate which nuts the GOP may anoint in '24, and/or why the GOP is not racist, etc. It'll get old realllllllllyyyyy fast,
Quote from: writingprof on January 19, 2021, 12:20:38 PM
With President Biden entering his lame-duck period tomorrow, it's time to discuss the 2024 elections.
I see President Harris winning reelection with 37% of the popular vote and an electoral college blowout. Former-President Trump will win 35% of the popular vote. The other 28% will go to Senator Romney.
It might be all hot air, but reports say that Trump is thinking of starting a third party called the "Patriot" party. If Trump really wants to remain a political force, that's his best option. He would take a lot of the Alex Jones/Rush Limbaugh, white supremacists, militia separatist crazies with him, but the fiscal conservatives (what few are left), the small-government proponents, the main line Christians, the quiet closet xenophobes, the frat boys, and the conservative intellectuals who follow the path of George Will/Buckley Jr. etc. will comprise the old Republican party. Neither will be viable unless the Progressives split off from the Democrats, but that will never happen because unlike the crazies on the far right of the Republican party, the Progressives on the far left of the moderate Democrats, have no interest in invading the Capitol and hanging their vice president.
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on January 19, 2021, 09:54:29 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on January 19, 2021, 09:38:31 PM
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on January 19, 2021, 09:17:52 PM
Not really. Republicans are the party of confederate flags, the Southern strategy, and Birtherism. Trump was openly racist and an uncomfortable number of Republicans love him for it. Not to say that all Republicans are racist, but a sizable portion of the base - enough to prevent a black woman from getting the nomination.
You do realize, don't you, that this sounds like you think Trump got more black votes than any other republican presidential candidate, while being more racist.
Trump won 12% of the black vote, which is nothing to brag about.
Congratulations to Biden for winning the black vote. If Trump gets 12% of the black vote in 2020 as opposed to 8% in 2016 and Romney even less in 2012 then he has something to brag to republicans about. I think what some democrats miss is the way to make friends with the black voter is not always to see if you can talk about racism the loudest. Or maybe they just figure they don't need that relatively small chunk of black votes. If they think that way, I would expect that chunk to keep growing.
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on January 19, 2021, 08:09:11 PM
. . . moderates like Harris . . .
Um,
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/kamala_harris/412678/report-card/2019.
I suppose she
is moderate if your baseline is Pol Pot.
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on January 19, 2021, 08:09:11 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on January 19, 2021, 06:01:20 PM
Kimberly Klacik is the closest thing to Trump I know of, and she looks like she's brimming with ambition. Cocky, vain, 'all American', confrontational, anti-government, pro-business, likes to go for the opponent's jugular, cult personality vibe....could be interesting. I think the republicans are in a good position now because the democrats think they're in a good position, which means they try things and then after a couple years the voters say "OK. Enough of this." As others note, Trump had such an impact he will leave a void and an opportunity. And Trump in a black woman's body - most provocative, as a challenge to the 'blame whitey and get government to fix everything' movement.
I strongly disagree with the notion that Republicans are in a good position. Trumpism has failed electorally, but so has Romney-style traditional conservatism, so the party lacks a clear party identity or a platform that appeals to voters. The lunatic wing of the party is arguably a majority, and certainly their ideas are the ones that most electrify the base. As for Kimberly Klacik, she has none of Trump's celebrity or name-brand recognition, which were nontrivial factors contributing to his success, and I hate to break it to you but a black woman is not going to do well at the national level in today's Republican party.
Democrats have problems too, not least of which is that Biden will be 82 yrs old in November 2024, but moderates like Harris and Mayor Pete are popular within the party and have potential crossover appeal.
I don't know how you can say that "Trumpism has failed." Objectively, it seems to me that it is a real force - enough to win in 2016, and edged out only slightly by record voter turnout fueled by more intense than usual hatred of the other side by the Democrats and progressives.
Quote from: Descartes on January 20, 2021, 09:02:34 AM
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on January 19, 2021, 08:09:11 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on January 19, 2021, 06:01:20 PM
Kimberly Klacik is the closest thing to Trump I know of, and she looks like she's brimming with ambition. Cocky, vain, 'all American', confrontational, anti-government, pro-business, likes to go for the opponent's jugular, cult personality vibe....could be interesting. I think the republicans are in a good position now because the democrats think they're in a good position, which means they try things and then after a couple years the voters say "OK. Enough of this." As others note, Trump had such an impact he will leave a void and an opportunity. And Trump in a black woman's body - most provocative, as a challenge to the 'blame whitey and get government to fix everything' movement.
I strongly disagree with the notion that Republicans are in a good position. Trumpism has failed electorally, but so has Romney-style traditional conservatism, so the party lacks a clear party identity or a platform that appeals to voters. The lunatic wing of the party is arguably a majority, and certainly their ideas are the ones that most electrify the base. As for Kimberly Klacik, she has none of Trump's celebrity or name-brand recognition, which were nontrivial factors contributing to his success, and I hate to break it to you but a black woman is not going to do well at the national level in today's Republican party.
Democrats have problems too, not least of which is that Biden will be 82 yrs old in November 2024, but moderates like Harris and Mayor Pete are popular within the party and have potential crossover appeal.
I don't know how you can say that "Trumpism has failed." Objectively, it seems to me that it is a real force - enough to win in 2016, and edged out only slightly by record voter turnout fueled by more intense than usual hatred of the other side by the Democrats and progressives.
Look at the data: Trump won by a hair the 2016 contest, while losing the popular vote by a wide margin, then Republicans went on to lose the House in 2018, nearly every special election, the Senate in 2020, and the Presidency in 2020 (by an even wider popular vote margin - despite turning out his base). Hard to look at that record and say it was an electoral success.
Quote from: mahagonny on January 20, 2021, 07:18:18 AM
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on January 19, 2021, 09:54:29 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on January 19, 2021, 09:38:31 PM
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on January 19, 2021, 09:17:52 PM
Not really. Republicans are the party of confederate flags, the Southern strategy, and Birtherism. Trump was openly racist and an uncomfortable number of Republicans love him for it. Not to say that all Republicans are racist, but a sizable portion of the base - enough to prevent a black woman from getting the nomination.
You do realize, don't you, that this sounds like you think Trump got more black votes than any other republican presidential candidate, while being more racist.
Trump won 12% of the black vote, which is nothing to brag about.
Congratulations to Biden for winning the black vote. If Trump gets 12% of the black vote in 2020 as opposed to 8% in 2016 and Romney even less in 2012 then he has something to brag to republicans about. I think what some democrats miss is the way to make friends with the black voter is not always to see if you can talk about racism the loudest. Or maybe they just figure they don't need that relatively small chunk of black votes. If they think that way, I would expect that chunk to keep growing.
He can brag that he has the distinction of being the first President to lose the house, senate, and presidency since 1932, while also losing the black vote by a wide margin.
Quote from: writingprof on January 20, 2021, 07:26:36 AM
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on January 19, 2021, 08:09:11 PM
. . . moderates like Harris . . .
Um,
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/kamala_harris/412678/report-card/2019.
I suppose she is moderate if your baseline is Pol Pot.
Fair data points, although absurd and pointlessly provocative to compare her to Pol Pot.
Quote from: kaysixteen on January 19, 2021, 10:00:32 PM
With Trump not yet sent packing, though we be counting the hours, let's take a pass on humoring the crazy old uncles of the fora with indulging their desire to debate which nuts the GOP may anoint in '24, and/or why the GOP is not racist, etc. It'll get old realllllllllyyyyy fast,
You are right, I should stop.
More for 2022, but I think it will have an impact on 2024: https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/535669-portman-wont-run-for-reelection
Quote from: jimbogumbo on January 25, 2021, 09:31:15 AM
More for 2022, but I think it will have an impact on 2024: https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/535669-portman-wont-run-for-reelection
I'm not a fan, but we do need some sane Republicans in the Senate.
The 2024 race will be Kamala Harris versus Tucker Carlson. You read it here first.
I fear that Tucker may win.
Quote from: larryc on January 29, 2021, 12:18:09 AM
The 2024 race will be Kamala Harris versus Tucker Carlson. You read it here first.
I fear that Tucker may win.
Very interesting. Two extremes. And I take it from this you expect Joe Biden to have no success bringing us together. Would that mean he's not smart or deft enough or that he won't be trying? And there will be no real conversations in the next four years between the two parties, just fencing.
Loury and McWhorter on how the two sides cannot talk to each other: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tP2MTZJnP8
Quote from: larryc on January 29, 2021, 12:18:09 AM
The 2024 race will be Kamala Harris versus Tucker Carlson. You read it here first.
I fear that Tucker may win.
I know there has been lots of speculation in the press, but is there any indication that Tucker actually wants to run for President?
Quote from: larryc on January 29, 2021, 12:18:09 AM
The 2024 race will be Kamala Harris versus Tucker Carlson. You read it here first.
I fear that Tucker may win.
Ok. Now I'm going to have nightmares tonight.
Quote from: larryc on January 29, 2021, 12:18:09 AM
The 2024 race will be Kamala Harris versus Tucker Carlson. You read it here first.
I fear that Tucker may win.
I would certainly hope so. Think of the sheer entertainment value. :-)
Quote from: dismalist on January 29, 2021, 04:28:28 PM
Quote from: larryc on January 29, 2021, 12:18:09 AM
The 2024 race will be Kamala Harris versus Tucker Carlson. You read it here first.
I fear that Tucker may win.
I would certainly hope so. Think of the sheer entertainment value. :-)
I hope he runs and stays in the race long enough to revive Randy Rainbow's flagging career (in 2023) then things get boring again.
Quote from: ciao_yall on January 29, 2021, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: dismalist on January 29, 2021, 04:28:28 PM
Quote from: larryc on January 29, 2021, 12:18:09 AM
The 2024 race will be Kamala Harris versus Tucker Carlson. You read it here first.
I fear that Tucker may win.
I would certainly hope so. Think of the sheer entertainment value. :-)
I hope he runs and stays in the race long enough to revive Randy Rainbow's flagging career (in 2023) then things get boring again.
Good point! His videos are hilarious.
Candace Owens has announced she is considering running for president. And will be just barely old enough.
Quote from: mahagonny on January 29, 2021, 05:08:04 AM
Quote from: larryc on January 29, 2021, 12:18:09 AM
The 2024 race will be Kamala Harris versus Tucker Carlson. You read it here first.
I fear that Tucker may win.
Very interesting. Two extremes. And I take it from this you expect Joe Biden to have no success bringing us together. Would that mean he's not smart or deft enough or that he won't be trying? And there will be no real conversations in the next four years between the two parties, just fencing.
Loury and McWhorter on how the two sides cannot talk to each other: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tP2MTZJnP8
Biden will be dead, obviously. But, no, he will have no success "bringing us together," unless you count bringing us together in the awareness that he looks increasingly like the Cryptkeeper.
https://tftc.fandom.com/wiki/The_CryptKeeper
"Bringing us together" is a marketing slogan, not a political strategy. Biden knows this, which is why he's signing fifty culture-war executive orders a day.
Edited to say: Who the frack is Candace Owens?
Quote from: writingprof on February 08, 2021, 04:55:07 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on January 29, 2021, 05:08:04 AM
Quote from: larryc on January 29, 2021, 12:18:09 AM
The 2024 race will be Kamala Harris versus Tucker Carlson. You read it here first.
I fear that Tucker may win.
Very interesting. Two extremes. And I take it from this you expect Joe Biden to have no success bringing us together. Would that mean he's not smart or deft enough or that he won't be trying? And there will be no real conversations in the next four years between the two parties, just fencing.
Loury and McWhorter on how the two sides cannot talk to each other: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tP2MTZJnP8
Biden will be dead, obviously. But, no, he will have no success "bringing us together," unless you count bringing us together in the awareness that he looks increasingly like the Cryptkeeper.
https://tftc.fandom.com/wiki/The_CryptKeeper
"Bringing us together" is a marketing slogan, not a political strategy. Biden knows this, which is why he's signing fifty culture-war executive orders a day.
Edited to say: Who the frack is Candace Owens?
Shock jock
Quote"Bringing us together" is a marketing slogan, not a political strategy.
Absolutely. I don't want to be brought together with lots and lots of people.
Sounds nice, as though we were a small band, or perhaps a church. We are not.
Quote from: dismalist on February 08, 2021, 05:21:35 PM
Quote"Bringing us together" is a marketing slogan, not a political strategy.
Absolutely. I don't want to be brought together with lots and lots of people.
Sounds nice, as though we were a small band, or perhaps a church. We are not.
I bet Abraham Lincoln would have something to say about this blanket statement. If you think Biden simply says things out of tactics and calculation, I wouldn't doubt it's largely true. There are some who speculate that Trump's policies without Trump's bluster and rudeness should make a decent republican platform. Meaning I guess you don't intentionally sow division. Call me naive but I think Mitt Romney or Joe Lieberman could have been something like that kind of leader.
Biden is dying? Remember what they said about Dick Cheney with his bad heart? He served eight years.
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on February 08, 2021, 05:03:51 PM
day.
Edited to say: Who the frack is Candace Owens?
Shock jock
[/quote]
What does she say that's shocking? I think it's more shocking to say things like 'looting is no big deal' 'silence is violence' or 'all lives matter demeans people' but my impressions are probably obsolete.
or "We're literally hunted EVERYDAY/EVERYTIME we step foot outside the comfort of our homes!" - LeBron James
It is shocking when someone refutes what the mob says that used to be shocking, before the hysteria.
The only thing that bothers me about Candace Owens is that she has been critiqued for having a white husband. This just doesn't stop. Same when Robert Smith agreed to pay the student debt of an entire Morehouse College class. But wait, he ain't really black though, he got him a white wife! The proposed boycotting of Michael B. Jordan's films are yet another example. If whites are going to be critiqued at every step with fake accusations of racism for non-issues, going after someone from your own group for a relationship with a white person has got to go. I don't think making this a social taboo in the age where almost everything without merit becomes one is too much to ask.
Quote from: mahagonny on February 09, 2021, 12:59:14 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on February 09, 2021, 12:59:14 AM
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on February 08, 2021, 05:03:51 PM
day.
Edited to say: Who the frack is Candace Owens?
Shock jock
What does she say that's shocking? I think it's more shocking to say things like 'looting is no big deal' 'silence is violence' or 'all lives matter demeans people' but my impressions are probably obsolete.
or "We're literally hunted EVERYDAY/EVERYTIME we step foot outside the comfort of our homes!" - LeBron James
It is shocking when someone refutes what the mob says that used to be shocking, before the hysteria.
Her whole schtick is to say outrageous things to get reactions and fame, and like many of the MAGA d-leaguers she is not an expert in anything other than being provocative on social media.
Her bio is hilarious btw: After dropping out of college she started her career in "journalism" writing editorials about how crazy Trump and the Republicans are. Then she started a cancel website, where people could upload screenshots of offensive content, which could then be used to get people fired and ruin their lives. Progressives criticized her for encouraging cancel culture (ironic, I know), which got her in the good graces of the most fringe right winger trolls (i.e. Milo Yiannopoulos) and so she decided to become a right wing lunatic herself!
What a principled conservative she is! Maybe by pretending to run for president she can get a book deal or an evening show on Fox.
America has a good supply of experts and also people without guts. Sometimes a person is not as much an expert but more a person who is enough above average in energy and astuteness to be interesting and also fills a void by pointing out the obvious. Should she run for president? I didn't say she should. I just posted that she's making noise about it.
Owens:
People are making George Floyd a hero and it's dumb. We all agree Derek Chauvin gets tried, but there's no cause for hysteria.
BLM is founded on myths and misinformation.
Cardi B is an embarrassment to Biden, black America.
Certain black people, with the help of liberal whites who are looking for some kind of exoneration from America's more distant past, have been taking the dregs of the black population and holding them up as role models, significant artists, thinkers, etc. something no other demographic does to that extent.
Urban black America has a horrible problem with absentee fathers and disintegrated families or families that never even started.
'The system' is not against people of color.
Quote from: mahagonny on February 10, 2021, 05:41:49 AM
Owens:
Cardi B is an embarrassment to Biden
Lol at this.
What a courageous truth teller she is! Definitely not a troll and partisan hack.
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on February 10, 2021, 06:52:24 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on February 10, 2021, 05:41:49 AM
Owens:
Cardi B is an embarrassment to Biden
Lol at this.
What a courageous truth teller she is! Definitely not a troll and partisan hack.
Actually the message was a little more complex than just that. It was more that Biden is using Cardi B to get black votes and doesn't respect her or the voters he wins thereby, which, I can't imagine why he would. Troll, sure. So?
Edit: As someone who teaches in a school that thinks it's OK to have the diversity staff send official sounding communications to all faculty in which they assert the right to require us to be part of their left political agenda ('anti-racism' 'the work ahead that we all must do' 'difficult conversations for white people' 'confronting white supremacy' etc.) I guess my tolerance for right wing trolls has gone up a bit.
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on February 10, 2021, 06:52:24 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on February 10, 2021, 05:41:49 AM
Owens:
Cardi B is an embarrassment to Biden
Lol at this.
What a courageous truth teller she is! Definitely not a troll and partisan hack.
My experience with all kinds of people is that they may be very good at pointing out the flaws and incosistencies from the other side, but much more defensive about the problems on their own side. It correlates highly (in my experience) with how partisan they are. The best analyses come from people who say things like "I would have described myself as [X], but.." because the "side" they would have previously considered themselves part of do things which they can't support, while they obviously are similarly opposed to the offenses on the "other" side.
An example would be Christina Hoff Summers, who describes herself as the "Factual Feminist"; while she would refer to herself as a feminist, she challenges arguments made by feminists which are not evidence-based.
Quote from: mahagonny on February 10, 2021, 05:41:49 AM
Cardi B is an embarrassment to Biden, black America.
Who the frack is Cardi B? I clearly need to come down from my ivory tower more often.
Quote from: marshwiggle on February 10, 2021, 07:18:39 AM
My experience with all kinds of people is that they may be very good at pointing out the flaws and incosistencies from the other side, but much more defensive about the problems on their own side. It correlates highly (in my experience) with how partisan they are. The best analyses come from people who say things like "I would have described myself as [X], but.." because the "side" they would have previously considered themselves part of do things which they can't support, while they obviously are similarly opposed to the offenses on the "other" side.
An example would be Christina Hoff Summers, who describes herself as the "Factual Feminist"; while she would refer to herself as a feminist, she challenges arguments made by feminists which are not evidence-based.
This is an instance of a rhetorical technique known as 'assuring'. It can be effective, yes, but it also has pretty obvious limits. If I began a sentence here with "As a conservative...", for example, you'd rightly laugh in my face. But, on the less ridiculous side of things, people's self-image often diverges pretty sharply from the reality, even if they're being perfectly sincere.
I have no reason to believe that CHS is being insincere when she describes herself as 'feminist'. But given her views, it's hard to see exactly where the feminism comes in. Likewise, a number of conservative columnists like to go around calling themselves "liberal" when, in fact, they're anything but. Not unlike the neo-Nazis who like to pretend they're Reasonable People Just Asking Questions, really.
Quote from: writingprof on February 10, 2021, 07:43:19 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on February 10, 2021, 05:41:49 AM
Cardi B is an embarrassment to Biden, black America.
Who the frack is Cardi B? I clearly need to come down from my ivory tower more often.
Does the term "WAP" mean anything? WARNING! NSFW!
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on February 10, 2021, 07:44:20 AM
I have no reason to believe that CHS is being insincere when she describes herself as 'feminist'. But given her views, it's hard to see exactly where the feminism comes in.
Quote
fem·i·nism
noun
the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes.
That pretty much fits everything I've heard her say.
Quote from: writingprof on February 10, 2021, 07:43:19 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on February 10, 2021, 05:41:49 AM
Cardi B is an embarrassment to Biden, black America.
Who the frack is Cardi B? I clearly need to come down from my ivory tower more often.
A sordid topic that Joe Biden uses to hijack your otherwise fine thread.
Quote from: marshwiggle on February 10, 2021, 07:18:39 AM
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on February 10, 2021, 06:52:24 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on February 10, 2021, 05:41:49 AM
Owens:
Cardi B is an embarrassment to Biden
Lol at this.
What a courageous truth teller she is! Definitely not a troll and partisan hack.
My experience with all kinds of people is that they may be very good at pointing out the flaws and incosistencies from the other side, but much more defensive about the problems on their own side. It correlates highly (in my experience) with how partisan they are. The best analyses come from people who say things like "I would have described myself as [X], but.." because the "side" they would have previously considered themselves part of do things which they can't support, while they obviously are similarly opposed to the offenses on the "other" side.
An example would be Christina Hoff Summers, who describes herself as the "Factual Feminist"; while she would refer to herself as a feminist, she challenges arguments made by feminists which are not evidence-based.
Sure, but as long as there are Americans who refuse to understand that Cardi-B is an arrogant low life who purports to represent black America by selling pornography to your children, whoever steps in to say it, loudly and clearly, deserves the credit.
Quote from: marshwiggle on February 10, 2021, 07:51:30 AM
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on February 10, 2021, 07:44:20 AM
I have no reason to believe that CHS is being insincere when she describes herself as 'feminist'. But given her views, it's hard to see exactly where the feminism comes in.
Quote
fem·i·nism
noun
the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes.
That pretty much fits everything I've heard her say.
Your dictionary doesn't paint a very comprehensive picture. It paints a similarly overgeneral picture of other names of movements, such as 'liberal', 'conservative', 'libertarian', etc. For example:
Quote
lib-er-tair-ee-uhn
noun
a person who advocates liberty, especially with regard to thought or conduct.
That fits everything you've ever heard
me say, and yet...
I'll concede she may well be a first-wave feminist. But as far as I can tell, that's where her commitments end. And we moved beyond the first wave decades ago. If you want a better feminist-but-critical hero, try Kathleen Stock. She, at least, is clearly a feminist. (She's wrong about stuff, too, but at least she legitimately has the cred.)
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on February 10, 2021, 08:24:51 AM
Quote from: marshwiggle on February 10, 2021, 07:51:30 AM
Quote
fem·i·nism
noun
the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes.
That pretty much fits everything I've heard her say.
I'll concede she may well be a first-wave feminist. But as far as I can tell, that's where her commitments end. And we moved beyond the first wave decades ago. If you want a better feminist-but-critical hero, try Kathleen Stock. She, at least, is clearly a feminist. (She's wrong about stuff, too, but at least she legitimately has the cred.)
I hadn't come across Kathleen Stock before, but looked at some of her stuff. Can you give an example of an area where she "qualifies" as a feminist and Christina Hoff Summers doesn't?
Quote from: marshwiggle on February 10, 2021, 07:44:44 AM
Quote from: writingprof on February 10, 2021, 07:43:19 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on February 10, 2021, 05:41:49 AM
Cardi B is an embarrassment to Biden, black America.
Who the frack is Cardi B? I clearly need to come down from my ivory tower more often.
Does the term "WAP" mean anything? WARNING! NSFW!
My god. I blame you for what I just learned, Marshwiggle.
Edited to say: No, clearly rap music hasn't degraded American culture. What a racist absurdity that would be.
Quote from: writingprof on February 10, 2021, 12:20:51 PM
Quote from: marshwiggle on February 10, 2021, 07:44:44 AM
Quote from: writingprof on February 10, 2021, 07:43:19 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on February 10, 2021, 05:41:49 AM
Cardi B is an embarrassment to Biden, black America.
Who the frack is Cardi B? I clearly need to come down from my ivory tower more often.
Does the term "WAP" mean anything? WARNING! NSFW!
My god. I blame you for what I just learned, Marshwiggle.
You were warned. Although, to be fair, it's still kind of a big step beyond even something like
Anaconda. AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS, THINK CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU LET YOUR CURIOSITY GET THE BETTER OF YOU.
Quote from: marshwiggle on February 10, 2021, 10:10:19 AM
I hadn't come across Kathleen Stock before, but looked at some of her stuff. Can you give an example of an area where she "qualifies" as a feminist and Christina Hoff Summers doesn't?
She accepts most of the insights and projects of second- and third-wave feminism. CHS is stuck in the first wave (at best). More, it's pretty clear that Stock is conversant in those issues; it's not clear to me that CHS is. IMO CHS is not much more than a shock-jock.
That said, KS's current crusade has seen her say some pretty staggeringly ugly and ignorant things.
QuoteEdited to say: No, clearly rap music hasn't degraded American culture. What a racist absurdity that would be.
Racist and also unsophisticated. As Dr. Sowell explains, trash black culture is the
real black culture, according to some.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e7a1hNZ7AI
or: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&feature=share&v=H6ImP-gJvas