American democracy is badly damaged. While it isn't all the fault of one party or one president, Trump's refusal to accept the outcome of a free and fair election and his attempts to delegitimize and overturn the results (attempts that were supported by much of the Republican party in Congress) have done damage to democratic norms and to Americans' confidence in the democratic system. In the aftermath of the election, Republican-led state governments have introduced various bills to make voting more difficult. To be fair to both sides, Republicans would surely point out that many Democrats did not see Trump's 2016 election as legitimate either.
In addition to the recent attacks on American democracy, our political institutions encourage minority rule: The electoral college regularly diverges from the popular vote; the Senate favors the Republicans (at least for now), such that the 50 Democratic senators represent 40m more Americans than the 50 Republican Senators.
According to Polity, a popular measure of democracy, the US has fallen from a score of 10 to a score of 5 over the last few years, on the -10 to 10 scale, meaning that the US is no longer technically a democracy by this measure. The Economist's Democracy Index score puts the US as a flawed democracy, as opposed to a full democracy.
So, question to the forum: What is the solution? Are we destined to live in a flawed democracy, or worse, or is there a solution that can win at least some degree of bipartisan support?
The United States was never formed to be a majoritarian democracy. See the Federalist, No. 10 for example. Significantly, Madison there includes the majority as just another faction.
The fundamental problem is to enable people who disagree to live together peacefully. As States are more homogeneous than the Republic as a whole, one can more effectively have majoritarian democracy at the State level, if one likes. Therefore, major expansion in States' Rights would enhance the Republic. Alternatively, secession, if agreed upon, is an answer.
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on March 20, 2021, 10:32:29 AM
In addition to the recent attacks on American democracy, our political institutions encourage minority rule:
One thing that strikes me as very odd. In Canada, Elections Canada, which is NOT directly controlled by the government, is in charge of rules regarding elections, voting, and riding boundaries. All kinds of things like gerrymandering in the US are the obvious result of allowing governments to mess around with the rules for elections. The glaring conflict of interest leads to a lot of predictable nonsense.
Quote from: marshwiggle on March 20, 2021, 12:59:40 PM
Quote from: Sun_Worshiper on March 20, 2021, 10:32:29 AM
In addition to the recent attacks on American democracy, our political institutions encourage minority rule:
One thing that strikes me as very odd. In Canada, Elections Canada, which is NOT directly controlled by the government, is in charge of rules regarding elections, voting, and riding boundaries. All kinds of things like gerrymandering in the US are the obvious result of allowing governments to mess around with the rules for elections. The glaring conflict of interest leads to a lot of predictable nonsense.
Oh, things may look different when they may not be. Both the British and Canadian Parliaments let themselves be advised about electoral boundaries by various commissions. These are cartels sanctioned by Parliament, which has the last word. This is consistent with the dictatorship of Parliament.
In the United States, every ten years the ruling party in each State can change electoral boundaries. This is dictatorship of the Parliament of each State.
Thus, in Britain they do it all at once, and in the US they do it sequentially. Big deal.
if there's anyone who might come to the rescue, it's these folks. Black Americans need a way to succeed with careers, equity and family that doesn't cost them anything in coolness, doesn't make them uncle tom or 'too much like whitey.'
https://1776unites.com
Quote from: mahagonny on March 20, 2021, 05:33:10 PM
if there's anyone who might come to the rescue, it's these folks. Black Americans need a way to succeed with careers, equity and family that doesn't cost them anything in coolness, doesn't make them uncle tom or 'too much like whitey.'
https://1776unites.com
That is really brilliant psychology. Must be a special case.
The link is fine, though.
Quote from: dismalist on March 20, 2021, 10:57:59 AM
The United States was never formed to be a majoritarian democracy. See the Federalist, No. 10 for example. Significantly, Madison there includes the majority as just another faction.
The fundamental problem is to enable people who disagree to live together peacefully. As States are more homogeneous than the Republic as a whole, one can more effectively have majoritarian democracy at the State level, if one likes. Therefore, major expansion in States' Rights would enhance the Republic. Alternatively, secession, if agreed upon, is an answer.
US system was set up with checks to prevent majority rule from tyrannizing minorities, but it was not established with the intent of encouraging sustained minority rule (quite the opposite, actually).
And state management of elections has its benefits (among other things, it made it more difficult for Trump to overturn the election results), but state leaders have shown that they will use their power to prevent some segments of the population from voting when there is too little federal oversight.
Given the way that the two-party system has evolved, I'd say it's doubtful.
https://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism (https://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism)
Quote from: spork on March 22, 2021, 08:21:26 AM
Given the way that the two-party system has evolved, I'd say it's doubtful.
https://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism (https://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism)
This is old hat: Adorno, et. al.,
The Authoritarian Personality, 1950. They developed an "F Scale", F for fascist.
But the article implies a fix. To make democracy work, my political opponents need ...
therapy! :-)
The biggest flaw in our so called democracy is how we keep third parties off the ballot. I don't see any change in this situation. Another is the influence of money. That also will not change in our lifetimes. There are many other problems but I will just throw in one more: the problem with the two major parties changing rules or ignoring existing rules during their own primary elections.
Democracy is the illusion that you and I together have more power than Bill Gates.
Quote from: Anselm on March 23, 2021, 11:35:56 AM
The biggest flaw in our so called democracy is how we keep third parties off the ballot. I don't see any change in this situation. Another is the influence of money. That also will not change in our lifetimes. There are many other problems but I will just throw in one more: the problem with the two major parties changing rules or ignoring existing rules during their own primary elections.
Democracy is the illusion that you and I together have more power than Bill Gates.
+1 to all but the last sentence. The two major parties won't allow viable third parties. I'm not (yet) ready to acknowledge the Gates part. I cling to the democratic ideal.
QuoteThe biggest flaw in our so called democracy is how we keep third parties off the ballot.
Like Italy? Like Weimar? Fourth, fifth parties, anyone?
People, the problem is not in our stars, but in ourselves. If the population is divided very much in its opinions and interests, majoritarian democracy no woik.
More independent or separate jurisdictions between those who disagree would do the trick.
I don't want to be ruled by Californians. :-)
I'd like one, centrist, third party not a whole bunch of parties.
Quote from: Cheerful on March 23, 2021, 03:34:51 PM
I'd like one, centrist, third party not a whole bunch of parties.
That can only happen if first-past-the-post is dropped in favor of proportional representation. Whether under such circumstances a centrist party would emerge
in the US that is necessary for a coalition is an interesting question.
I doubt proportional representation in the US would change anything. Blue and Red States would stay the same. Maybe the Democrats could determine the President for a long period of time. That leaves the frays.
Anyway, no California! :-)
Seems to me that it can be fixed, but won't. There are a number of different problems at different levels of government, each needing attention. One big one is partisan gerrymandering, whose effects have become just crazy and seriously anti-democratic. Another is the supreme court and its ideological capture and susceptibility to party politics (seriously, in otcou countries we can't predict there's vote based on party lines). Another is the disenfranchisement of millions of Americans (Puerto Ricans, Samoans, Virgin Islanders, DCers--not to mention incarcerated and formerly incarcerated people).
Moat f these aren't very hard problems to solve, if there's any will to do so. Doing so won't solve everything, but it will make a big dent.
Quote from: dismalist on March 23, 2021, 03:47:01 PM
Quote from: Cheerful on March 23, 2021, 03:34:51 PM
I'd like one, centrist, third party not a whole bunch of parties.
That can only happen if first-past-the-post is dropped in favor of proportional representation. Whether under such circumstances a centrist party would emerge in the US that is necessary for a coalition is an interesting question.
A little bit of information for those of you from the US, especially if you're fans of Justin Trudeau.
In the run-up to the 2015 election, when the Liberals were not doing so well, (having not formed a government for over a decade), Justin Trudeau promised a move to proportional representation. Once he got elected, guess what? They discovered that proportional representation wasn't such a great idea; first-past-the-post isn't so bad.
Politicians.................
Georgia's Republican-led legislature passes (and governor signs) a bill to overhaul elections to make it more difficult to vote by mail, and to shake up the election board in a manner that will disempower the Republican secretary of state that stood up to Trump's efforts to overturn the election results in that state.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia-voting-bill-restricting-early-voting-signed-into-law-governor-kemp/
Republican attacks on voting rights continue:
One proposal by Texas Republicans would make a "mistake on a voter registration application a second-degree felony, that's the equivalent of arson and aggravated kidnapping." (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/21/texas-voting-rights-restrictions-republicans)
In the meantime, Arizona Republicans are moving forward with (another) recount of Maricopa county votes, this one led by a cybersecurity firm with no relevant experience and whose owner tweeted conspiracy theories about the election. This recount will cost taxpayers at least $150k (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/arizona-recount-cyber-ninjas/2021/04/16/b3cbbf08-996e-11eb-962b-78c1d8228819_story.html)