Starting this so the recently-created thread on financial advice doesn't get muddled.
I have two raised vegetable box gardens in the backyard, in the middle of a larger square where I removed the grass and put down mulch. Some years ago I used 2X4s cannibalized from the basement as border edging around the perimeter of the square area. This lumber is now substantially rotted away. I'm thinking of putting down a stone border as a permanent replacement. Not a wall, no concrete footing, just a line of rough cut stone blocks all the way around the square. A pallet of these blocks will cost ~ $500 though. Wondering if it's worth it. It won't increase the value of the property but it will look nicer and be easier to maintain.
Well, what does "worth it" mean? A lot of the things we do to our houses are to increase our own enjoyment of them, not to increase the home's value (which is pretty meaningless anyway unless you plan to sell soon-- this year's trendy white kitchen will be dated looking in 5 years, let alone 20).
I have a pallet of pavers and other materials being delivered Friday to put in a patio-- a bit over $900 plus my own labor to build it (which I'm looking forward to-- becoming a homeowner seems to have activated strong latent liking to have a hands-on project traits in me). Will it enhance the resale value of the house? In theory a bit a suppose. Will it enhance the value of the house *to me*? Most definitely-- I expect to be spending a lot of time out there and using it for socializing, and it will be the future home of a small hot tub which I've long wanted.
People do a lot of "home improvement" to please some hypothetical future buyer whom their realtor may have conjured. I don't think any of those are good to do.
Measure the value in how much pleasure it brings to you. Utility, beauty, pride in ones own craftsmanship, expressing self-determination. Lots of measures that are hard to count in dollars, but pay back immediately.
For raised beds, untreated lumber sides will rot out and need replacing, but I have yet to find a lower-maintenance, non-toxic solution. Stones will need to be reset, and will be home to some of the toughest weeds. But if they look a lot better, and you are up to tidying them annually, it sounds like a win.
I dont really see this as a 'home improvement issue'.
Do you Enjoy working with these raised boxes? Would you spend $500 on a hobby cost that will bring you joy and entertainment for months to come and reduce the annoyance of ever increasing maintenance because of the rotting of the wood?
I think it is worth it, financially.
I am glad to see that you are not thinking that it will increase the value of the property. Likely it will not, but IF you enjoy doing it and will enjoy the view better, then it is certainly worth doing!
(My friend planted tomatoes in his garden 2 years ago. I think he said that the tomatoes ended up costing him $10 a pound! Last year he used a smaller variety and was overwhelmed with them! You do not garden as a cost effective means of growing food! It is fun, tastes better, and provides a measure of joy, not a cost savings on the grocery bill! Still, even at $10 a pound, he enjoyed being in the garden, so it was worth it!)
I think that the bottom line is that IF you want to spend $500 on your hobby, and it brings you joy, then do it!
Quote from: clean on March 29, 2021, 10:49:51 AM
(My friend planted tomatoes in his garden 2 years ago. I think he said that the tomatoes ended up costing him $10 a pound! Last year he used a smaller variety and was overwhelmed with them! You do not garden as a cost effective means of growing food! It is fun, tastes better, and provides a measure of joy, not a cost savings on the grocery bill! Still, even at $10 a pound, he enjoyed being in the garden, so it was worth it!)
A bit off topic perhaps but--
I agree saving money isn't the primary reason to garden, but it certainly can in the long run. There are a lot of start-up costs, but once you have your beds in and all your tools, the yearly costs are pretty low-- seeds, maybe some starter plants, some fertilizer. Since I enjoy the work I wouldn't include labor.
Last year from five tomato plants I probably harvested hundreds of pounds between June and October, plenty to eat and to share with friends and neighbors, plus canning some for winter which I'm still enjoying. Plus tons of other produce (basil is probably the biggest money saver over grocery store prices-- it's insane what they charge for a few sprigs). What the per lb cost is would depend on how you amortize the start-up costs, but over a few years it is almost certainly less than grocery store prices, at least for organic produce.
Quote from: Puget on March 29, 2021, 12:50:56 PM
Last year from five tomato plants I probably harvested hundreds of pounds between June and October, plenty to eat and to share with friends and neighbors, plus canning some for winter which I'm still enjoying. Plus tons of other produce (basil is probably the biggest money saver over grocery store prices-- it's insane what they charge for a few sprigs). What the per lb cost is would depend on how you amortize the start-up costs, but over a few years it is almost certainly less than grocery store prices, at least for organic produce.
Last summer we ate fantastic ripe-tomato and basil on home-made sourdough for lunch ninety days in a row. That benefit was worth $500 all by itself. Sorry to hijack this to a gardening thread. Back to the regular programming...
Quote from: Hibush on March 29, 2021, 02:23:31 PM
Quote from: Puget on March 29, 2021, 12:50:56 PM
Last year from five tomato plants I probably harvested hundreds of pounds between June and October, plenty to eat and to share with friends and neighbors, plus canning some for winter which I'm still enjoying. Plus tons of other produce (basil is probably the biggest money saver over grocery store prices-- it's insane what they charge for a few sprigs). What the per lb cost is would depend on how you amortize the start-up costs, but over a few years it is almost certainly less than grocery store prices, at least for organic produce.
Last summer we ate fantastic ripe-tomato and basil on home-made sourdough for lunch ninety days in a row. That benefit was worth $500 all by itself. Sorry to hijack this to a gardening thread. Back to the regular programming...
Yes, we should pick this back up on the gardening thread!
^ OK, but, as regarding construction details of raised boxes, wood inside with stone or brick outside works very well.
By the time the wood has rotted, it fills in the holes between the stones and sort-of cements them together.
Very 18th c.
M.
Quote from: mamselle on March 30, 2021, 09:25:44 AM
^ OK, but, as regarding construction details of raised boxes, wood inside with stone or brick outside works very well.
By the time the wood has rotted, it fills in the holes between the stones and sort-of cements them together.
Very 18th c.
M.
I just get infestations of termites and other pest wood-boring pests with that. I remove the rotten wood whenever and wherever I can.
Quote from: Hibush on March 29, 2021, 10:08:36 AM
People do a lot of "home improvement" to please some hypothetical future buyer whom their realtor may have conjured. I don't think any of those are good to do.
Measure the value in how much pleasure it brings to you. Utility, beauty, pride in ones own craftsmanship, expressing self-determination. Lots of measures that are hard to count in dollars, but pay back immediately.
For raised beds, untreated lumber sides will rot out and need replacing, but I have yet to find a lower-maintenance, non-toxic solution. Stones will need to be reset, and will be home to some of the toughest weeds. But if they look a lot better, and you are up to tidying them annually, it sounds like a win.
This is purely a decorative project. The person we bought the house from thirteen years ago was, by neighbors' accounts, crazy. She ruined both the front and back yards in a variety of ways and I've been slowly altering the landscape. The stone would be edging around an area that is mulched, not walls for raised bed gardens.
I would probably get a sense of accomplishment out of this. My wife periodically complains that I spend too much time moving plants from the front yard to the back and vice versa, but I like to work outdoors. And there could be some currently unknown benefits. Two Decembers ago I spent about $3K to get a new insulated fiberglass front door and sidelights and energy-efficient replacement windows for an enclosed side porch. The porch has become my home office teaching space and yoga studio during the pandemic; previously I'd seal it off from the rest of the house and not use it during the winter months. The heating bill did not increase this past winter despite me being home all day, every day, and spending a lot of time on the porch. In terms of adding comfort and functionality to the house, the expense was well worth it.
At a certain point, when age begins to let itself be all-too patent, the same decline strikes the landscaping that so-enthusiastically I worked on. Now, the yard stockade fence slumps and the low rock wall that held plantings next to the foundation surrenders to gravity. Let "estate" and self, pari passu, say "Hello" to entropy.
Still, there's the likelihood of my state making growing a personal patch of weed legal soon. Well, maybe time to work on the compost heap again.
I'm not a home-owner yet, but Absolutive and I are getting to a place where we'll start looking in the next year or two. I've already got Plans for whole wallsfull of built-in bookcases. Like this: https://pixels.com/featured/holy-cow-what-kind-of-crazy-people-used-to-live-warren-miller.html
My uncle did that with an entire spare room. He packed it with decades of collected science fiction novels. Seeing this for the first time was a sci-fi nerd miracle.
Now, in today's world where libraries are being converted into wifi hotspots and computer centers, and bookstores are being converted into wifi hotspots and computer centers, my uncle's personal library has become even more awesome as a print book resource.
I think it's important to note, as well, that many projects don't increase the value of your home but do make it easier to sell. I know the two times that I was home shopping that I certainly looked more favorably on homes that showed that the owners cared and were invested in maintaining them. I don't garden much but since I like to cook I do grow herbs. I've been just doing them in pots but I may build myself a planter on my back deck this year.
Quote from: Aster on March 31, 2021, 06:17:27 AM
My uncle did that with an entire spare room. He packed it with decades of collected science fiction novels. Seeing this for the first time was a sci-fi nerd miracle.
WANT
Quote from: spork on March 30, 2021, 10:23:27 AM
Quote from: Hibush on March 29, 2021, 10:08:36 AM
People do a lot of "home improvement" to please some hypothetical future buyer whom their realtor may have conjured. I don't think any of those are good to do.
Measure the value in how much pleasure it brings to you. Utility, beauty, pride in ones own craftsmanship, expressing self-determination. Lots of measures that are hard to count in dollars, but pay back immediately.
For raised beds, untreated lumber sides will rot out and need replacing, but I have yet to find a lower-maintenance, non-toxic solution. Stones will need to be reset, and will be home to some of the toughest weeds. But if they look a lot better, and you are up to tidying them annually, it sounds like a win.
This is purely a decorative project. The person we bought the house from thirteen years ago was, by neighbors' accounts, crazy. She ruined both the front and back yards in a variety of ways and I've been slowly altering the landscape. The stone would be edging around an area that is mulched, not walls for raised bed gardens.
I would probably get a sense of accomplishment out of this. My wife periodically complains that I spend too much time moving plants from the front yard to the back and vice versa, but I like to work outdoors. And there could be some currently unknown benefits. Two Decembers ago I spent about $3K to get a new insulated fiberglass front door and sidelights and energy-efficient replacement windows for an enclosed side porch. The porch has become my home office teaching space and yoga studio during the pandemic; previously I'd seal it off from the rest of the house and not use it during the winter months. The heating bill did not increase this past winter despite me being home all day, every day, and spending a lot of time on the porch. In terms of adding comfort and functionality to the house, the expense was well worth it.
As long as you are prepared to move a pallet of stones. I had a flower bed that needed more gravel. I ordered half a truckload--that is, 7 tons. I currently have a pile that is roughly 3 tons that I still need to spread. Joy.
If so, I say do it. Stones will last so much better than wood.
If you lived within driving distance of me (NY Metro area, you doing the needed driving) you could have the hundreds of SciFi pb-s that are boxed in the basement; otherwise they "will grow old along with me." I have set aside a small shelf of favorites, largely Jack Vance and Larry Niven, but otherwise...
We currently have a malfunctioning HVAC system that is locked on heat to the point that it's 60 F outside and 85 F inside.
We are getting estimates to replace thermostats that are likely older than I am. It's unclear whether that will completely fix the problem, but then we will have programmable thermostats and have addressed one of the two* very common reasons this system malfunctions.
*The other typical situation is a malfunctioning valve on the boiler. That boiler and fittings we put in new four years ago, so that's much less likely for our particular circumstances. We can't just shut off the boiler because that's all the hot water in the house for all purposes.
Quote from: Juvenal on March 31, 2021, 08:37:22 AM
If you lived within driving distance of me (NY Metro area, you doing the needed driving) you could have the hundreds of SciFi pb-s that are boxed in the basement; otherwise they "will grow old along with me." I have set aside a small shelf of favorites, largely Jack Vance and Larry Niven, but otherwise...
Wish I lived in driving distance. Most of my sci-fi collection was lost when a moving van was involved in an accident. Insurance doesn't replace waterlogged paperbacks from 1940-1970, collected during many trips to the used bookstore, where I gladly paid more than the cover price.
Quote from: Vkw10 on March 31, 2021, 08:17:33 PM
Quote from: Juvenal on March 31, 2021, 08:37:22 AM
If you lived within driving distance of me (NY Metro area, you doing the needed driving) you could have the hundreds of SciFi pb-s that are boxed in the basement; otherwise they "will grow old along with me." I have set aside a small shelf of favorites, largely Jack Vance and Larry Niven, but otherwise...
Wish I lived in driving distance. Most of my sci-fi collection was lost when a moving van was involved in an accident. Insurance doesn't replace waterlogged paperbacks from 1940-1970, collected during many trips to the used bookstore, where I gladly paid more than the cover price.
That must have been a heartbreaking experience.
Quote from: Vkw10 on March 31, 2021, 08:17:33 PM
Quote from: Juvenal on March 31, 2021, 08:37:22 AM
If you lived within driving distance of me (NY Metro area, you doing the needed driving) you could have the hundreds of SciFi pb-s that are boxed in the basement; otherwise they "will grow old along with me." I have set aside a small shelf of favorites, largely Jack Vance and Larry Niven, but otherwise...
Wish I lived in driving distance. Most of my sci-fi collection was lost when a moving van was involved in an accident. Insurance doesn't replace waterlogged paperbacks from 1940-1970, collected during many trips to the used bookstore, where I gladly paid more than the cover price.
Sorry to hear that. My collection does not go back that far--primarily it was the Sixties to the Seventies, a handful earlier, but later ones trickling off into the Eighties. A scatter since. It is a little dismaying to take a fifty-year-old pb out of the box and realize I have no interest in reading it again... Times change and we change with them.
Given the current price of plywood and studs, my home will remain unimproved for now.
Three years ago, after a hailstorm damaged our roof, we decided to go with a metal roof. This turned out to be a good idea after three subsequent golf-ball-to-baseball sized hail events (two of them this year alone).
I don't generally do home improvement with an eye on selling - particularly in this neighborhood, which has always been a desirable place to live. We do home improvement for us.
One recent example is the installation of an electric tankless water heater, for which we added two 240V circuits. The days of taking a shower at a flow rate guaranteed to pressure wash your outsides are over, but the shower is hot and that is that heater's sole purpose. There didn't seem much point in keeping 40 gallons of water piping hot on the off chance we would want to take a shower. This is probably not a popular move from a resale point of view, but it works for us.
Quote from: Bbmaj7b5 on April 15, 2021, 04:45:03 AM
Three years ago, after a hailstorm damaged our roof, we decided to go with a metal roof. This turned out to be a good idea after three subsequent golf-ball-to-baseball sized hail events (two of them this year alone).
I don't generally do home improvement with an eye on selling - particularly in this neighborhood, which has always been a desirable place to live. We do home improvement for us.
One recent example is the installation of an electric tankless water heater, for which we added two 240V circuits. The days of taking a shower at a flow rate guaranteed to pressure wash your outsides are over, but the shower is hot and that is that heater's sole purpose. There didn't seem much point in keeping 40 gallons of water piping hot on the off chance we would want to take a shower. This is probably not a popular move from a resale point of view, but it works for us.
I love out tankless water heater. I don't often take long hot showers but when I do it's really nice. It's also nice when I have family visiting and six people need to take showers in the morning.
Quote from: polly_mer on March 31, 2021, 07:57:44 PM
We currently have a malfunctioning HVAC system that is locked on heat to the point that it's 60 F outside and 85 F inside.
We are getting estimates to replace thermostats that are likely older than I am. It's unclear whether that will completely fix the problem, but then we will have programmable thermostats and have addressed one of the two* very common reasons this system malfunctions.
*The other typical situation is a malfunctioning valve on the boiler. That boiler and fittings we put in new four years ago, so that's much less likely for our particular circumstances. We can't just shut off the boiler because that's all the hot water in the house for all purposes.
Did new thermostats fix the problem? I have replaced Honeywell mercury switch thermostats in two houses with programmable thermostats; it was very easy. But neither house had central A/C.
Quote from: Bbmaj7b5 on April 15, 2021, 04:45:03 AM
Three years ago, after a hailstorm damaged our roof, we decided to go with a metal roof. This turned out to be a good idea after three subsequent golf-ball-to-baseball sized hail events (two of them this year alone).
I don't generally do home improvement with an eye on selling - particularly in this neighborhood, which has always been a desirable place to live. We do home improvement for us.
One recent example is the installation of an electric tankless water heater, for which we added two 240V circuits. The days of taking a shower at a flow rate guaranteed to pressure wash your outsides are over, but the shower is hot and that is that heater's sole purpose. There didn't seem much point in keeping 40 gallons of water piping hot on the off chance we would want to take a shower. This is probably not a popular move from a resale point of view, but it works for us.
Last year our 40 gallon water heater, which came with the house when we bought it and was ~ 12 years old, ruptured internally. I had a plumber replace it with a 30 gallon heater. It's definitely costing us less than the larger one, but I'm wondering if we'll switch to a tankless or some kind of combination system when the gas-fired steam boiler finally dies. It will depend on the price difference and how much longer we think we will be in this 100-year old house.
I'm moving this over to General Discussion from General Academic Discussion, since it seems a better fit there.
Quote from: Puget on March 29, 2021, 07:47:57 AM
I have a pallet of pavers and other materials being delivered Friday to put in a patio-- a bit over $900 plus my own labor to build it (which I'm looking forward to-- becoming a homeowner seems to have activated strong latent liking to have a hands-on project traits in me). Will it enhance the resale value of the house? In theory a bit a suppose. Will it enhance the value of the house *to me*? Most definitely-- I expect to be spending a lot of time out there and using it for socializing, and it will be the future home of a small hot tub which I've long wanted.
I successfully installed the patio over two weekends. I just have a little to finish this weekend pouring some concrete to fill in where it meets the irregular edges of the fieldstone foundation and bulkhead.
It was moderately challenging and good exercise-- overall a satisfying project. My neighbor who is a retired mason came over to inspect several times and approved of my work so I guess I didn't do too badly! I have a lot of pavers left over, some of which I'll use for a garden path, and I guess I'll save the rest in the garage in case of later breakage or other uses.
I now await the arrival of the patio set and need to do research on exactly what hot tub I want.
Quote from: spork on April 15, 2021, 06:44:42 AM
Quote from: polly_mer on March 31, 2021, 07:57:44 PM
We currently have a malfunctioning HVAC system that is locked on heat to the point that it's 60 F outside and 85 F inside.
We are getting estimates to replace thermostats that are likely older than I am. It's unclear whether that will completely fix the problem, but then we will have programmable thermostats and have addressed one of the two* very common reasons this system malfunctions.
*The other typical situation is a malfunctioning valve on the boiler. That boiler and fittings we put in new four years ago, so that's much less likely for our particular circumstances. We can't just shut off the boiler because that's all the hot water in the house for all purposes.
Did new thermostats fix the problem? I have replaced Honeywell mercury switch thermostats in two houses with programmable thermostats; it was very easy. But neither house had central A/C.
Well, the thermostat was reading >5 deg. F wrong, but that didn't fix the whole problem.
It turns out these valves have a known potential to stick open, so the valve also had to be replaced, even though it was practically new.
And, we had a sensor just malfunction so the boiler was running full steam through an open valve.
It's all fixed now...just in time for another cold snap.
Quote from: Puget on April 15, 2021, 01:51:54 PM
Quote from: Puget on March 29, 2021, 07:47:57 AM
I have a pallet of pavers and other materials being delivered Friday to put in a patio-- a bit over $900 plus my own labor to build it (which I'm looking forward to-- becoming a homeowner seems to have activated strong latent liking to have a hands-on project traits in me). Will it enhance the resale value of the house? In theory a bit a suppose. Will it enhance the value of the house *to me*? Most definitely-- I expect to be spending a lot of time out there and using it for socializing, and it will be the future home of a small hot tub which I've long wanted.
I successfully installed the patio over two weekends. I just have a little to finish this weekend pouring some concrete to fill in where it meets the irregular edges of the fieldstone foundation and bulkhead.
It was moderately challenging and good exercise-- overall a satisfying project. My neighbor who is a retired mason came over to inspect several times and approved of my work so I guess I didn't do too badly! I have a lot of pavers left over, some of which I'll use for a garden path, and I guess I'll save the rest in the garage in case of later breakage or other uses.
I now await the arrival of the patio set and need to do research on exactly what hot tub I want.
Congrats! Did you lay the pavers over sand?
Quote from: evil_physics_witchcraft on April 15, 2021, 06:11:25 PM
Quote from: Puget on April 15, 2021, 01:51:54 PM
Quote from: Puget on March 29, 2021, 07:47:57 AM
I have a pallet of pavers and other materials being delivered Friday to put in a patio-- a bit over $900 plus my own labor to build it (which I'm looking forward to-- becoming a homeowner seems to have activated strong latent liking to have a hands-on project traits in me). Will it enhance the resale value of the house? In theory a bit a suppose. Will it enhance the value of the house *to me*? Most definitely-- I expect to be spending a lot of time out there and using it for socializing, and it will be the future home of a small hot tub which I've long wanted.
I successfully installed the patio over two weekends. I just have a little to finish this weekend pouring some concrete to fill in where it meets the irregular edges of the fieldstone foundation and bulkhead.
It was moderately challenging and good exercise-- overall a satisfying project. My neighbor who is a retired mason came over to inspect several times and approved of my work so I guess I didn't do too badly! I have a lot of pavers left over, some of which I'll use for a garden path, and I guess I'll save the rest in the garage in case of later breakage or other uses.
I now await the arrival of the patio set and need to do research on exactly what hot tub I want.
Congrats! Did you lay the pavers over sand?
A 1/2" layer of sand over landscape fabric after removing the sod and leveling and packing the soil, and then polypropylene paver base panels (which replace the traditional thick layers of gravel and sand-- better living through materials science!).
Quote from: Puget on April 15, 2021, 01:51:54 PM
Quote from: Puget on March 29, 2021, 07:47:57 AM
I have a pallet of pavers and other materials being delivered Friday to put in a patio-- a bit over $900 plus my own labor to build it (which I'm looking forward to-- becoming a homeowner seems to have activated strong latent liking to have a hands-on project traits in me). Will it enhance the resale value of the house? In theory a bit a suppose. Will it enhance the value of the house *to me*? Most definitely-- I expect to be spending a lot of time out there and using it for socializing, and it will be the future home of a small hot tub which I've long wanted.
I successfully installed the patio over two weekends. I just have a little to finish this weekend pouring some concrete to fill in where it meets the irregular edges of the fieldstone foundation and bulkhead.
It was moderately challenging and good exercise-- overall a satisfying project. My neighbor who is a retired mason came over to inspect several times and approved of my work so I guess I didn't do too badly! I have a lot of pavers left over, some of which I'll use for a garden path, and I guess I'll save the rest in the garage in case of later breakage or other uses.
I now await the arrival of the patio set and need to do research on exactly what hot tub I want.
Approval from a retired mason on a job like that means something. It drives them crazy when they see badly-done work. They can't unsee it.
I had squirrels trying to nest in my soffits/fascia. Called an exterminator, sealed the openings...squirrels seen roaming around on my roof for a week trying to find a way in. They finally gave up and left. Now for the darn groundhog...
Mothballs and talk radio wherever their burrow is. Unlike some humans, rodents can't stand either.