NSF CAREER Grant UPDATE Thread

[Hibush]

Rejected for the third time (DMR-BMAT, competitive).  I'll admit some frustration as it reviewed less favorably each year as I continued to address the panel comments.  In retrospect I should have focused solely on writing a good clear proposal while hoping for an enthusiastic panel instead of proactively addressing the critiques from each batch of reviewers.

Sorry about that result and the road to it.

Your lesson from the experience is a good one. Obeying reviewers makes resubmissions more compliant, but less exciting. A proposal with a clear and compelling idea sells better (but still has to be pretty compliant).

[deeply_uncertain]

It sounds like outside of the PO's name many folks don't know how the PO operates, which then would lead to "I don't want to bother them" posts.

If the only time you're contacting your PO is to check on the status of your proposal, I can see why there would be some issues here. POs are people at the end of the day and should be treated as such. Think about it, do you like hearing from people only when they want/need something?

From my previous experience, most POs like to hear from researchers. I've had lunch with a handful of POs over the last few years and it's never because I had a proposal pending, or funded, with them. I just wanted to get to know them a bit better and gauge what they may be interested in funding and they were trying to gauge whether I would be a fit for funding. Therefore, when I email, I do get replies usually right away and I'd venture to guess that is because I'm not just another email from someone they do not know asking what the status of a proposal is that is within the 6 month window.

When you do want to follow-up on a proposal the shorter the email the better. And it needs to get right to the point. You need to supply the PO with the solicitation for which you submitted the proposal as well as the proposal number. If you have another agency where you need feedback from the NSF to complete that pending proposal (i.e., DOE or NIH), be sure to let the PO know this, but once again keep it brief. Your PO doesn't want an essay or even a paragraph. 3-4 sentences should be the target length.

Lastly, read between the lines. The PO isn't going to directly tell you which way the funding winds are blowing. However, the PO may say something along the lines of "be patient", which is saying your proposal is still being considered. If this is the reply then you need to wait and be patient. The PO may also tell you that your proposal "reviewed well", which is good, but shy of saying that it has been recommended, but also lets you know that the panel has met and most likely decisions will be forthcoming. There can be a delay in gathering the panel reviews and generating the overall summary and this is part of the reason panel reviews are not released as soon as the panel meets.

If your proposal has been declined, the PO has no incentive in delaying to tell you that information if they know it. Also, contacting your PO will not change whether your proposal was going to be funded or not. It's not like they're sitting back saying the next person to contact me about the status will have their proposal instantly declined.

In closing, get to know your PO and understand that the PO at any given time is working on multiple solicitations and not just the one for which you submitted. They get emails all day long about the status of proposals, which are tiring to go through, which is why they have the template email saying 6-months queued up.

This is a bit of cultural problem. Many of us come from many different places with very different cultures of understanding power and conversation. Different people read between the lines differently. For example, to me "be patient" has a negative tone with no direct information, instead "your proposal was reviewed well" has a more positive tone with more precise information about the proposal. Of course it could be read differently as you have explained. We are trained to write and read as clearly and directly as possible. We are not trained to read between the lines. And our diverse cultural background doesn't help us here.   

Definitely you were fortunate enough to get more opportunities to know your PO. I am sure these "I don't want to bother them" people also want to know how their POs operate. Probably they have written to them, received some cold replies, and thought that POs wanted to maintain a distance from them.

I tried to meet my PO, didn't get a reply. Sent a generic request if it's possible to include me as a reviewer, received a positive reply but never got a chance to be a panelist. Sent the abstract of my CAREER proposal last year, did not get a response. This year again sent my abstract and asked for a short meeting. Got a reply: we can talk if there are any specific issues. Eventually I switched to another program and submitted my CAREER after having a phone meeting with the PO. I served as a panelist for this PO and had a phone meeting about another proposal which got funded. I had chances to meet other POs who were also great to talk to.           

My conclusion: Don't generalize. Every PO is going to be different.
Whenever I want to know more about NSF and hear from people about it, I always think the story of "the blind men and an elephant" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant).       

You must be referencing the royal "we" and speaking about yourself. Everyone has training that exists outside of academia and that manifests I self in our social interactions.

I'll keep this short as someone who served as a fellow to several POs in CISE.

The people who work at the NSF are not a monolith. Each PO is different and each PO is ENCOURAGED to interact with fellow researchers. However, the workload during various times of the year for each PO also varies, which impacts their ability to have meaningful conversations. Additionally, many POs have good intentions, will read an email and say they'll come back to it and it simply slips their mind.

These are people at the end of the day. If they were cold or simply didn't respond there is no harm in allowing some time to pass and reaching out again. I've never once heard, and I've heard a lot, a PO say, "I don't like XYZ researcher". It just doesn't happen. And the 10 POs I've worked with are often open to having their minds changed as evidence is produced.

In closing, "a closed mouth doesn't get fed".

Good luck with your CAREER proposal and any other potential funding opportunities.

Thanks. I appreciate sharing your experience with us. When I was writing my CAREER proposal, someone with a lot of NSF experience in my university mentored me. He advised me the same things as you said. Reach out to your PO and pitch your idea. Pick up the phone and call them. If they are busy, they will not answer your call.   

[fizzycist]

deeply_uncertain: "Whenever I want to know more about NSF and hear from people about it, I always think the story of "the blind men and an elephant" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant)"

Love this analogy. Basically captures all grant-getting advice I have ever received (and probably most of the grant advice I've given).

[SA]

Any news from CMMI ECI? My status date changed on November 21, but still pending!

[fkutmost]

My status date changed yesterday, 01/07/2020. CMMI DCSD program.

[alex000]

The Status Date of my proposal changed on 10/07/2019, but nothing has changed since then. It is in CISE-CCF-CIF.

The PO is new and I didn't see any panel meetings leaded by this PO  from the following link
https://www.nsf.gov/events/advisory.jsp
I saw that the other PO in the same program has several panel meetings, one in middle November and the rest in December.


How likely is it that the panel of my proposal was held before 10/07/2019?  Any thoughts on my case? Thanks

[hql5143]

Did anyone hear any news about CMMI-OE? I received no PO contact, no status update, and found nothing on twitter so far.

[ttbeaver]

No change to my CMMI ECI status or date since the change to date on 12/16/2019. Has ECI made any calls or send rejections to anyone?

[taray]

My status date in CMMI ECI changed to 1/4 without any further news

[professing]

Hey all - I am back and shocked to see this thread go from almost no activity to over 20 pages!!

Also, very happy to see that your proposal was funded @zelda166! Congratulations!

I still have no news on my end. It looks like the panels may not even meet for another month, unless it is going to go through ad hoc review.

Congrats to all who received positive news so far. For those who have been declined, keep on keeping on! There is always the next cycle or a standard grant that may fit your needs better!

[professing]

Thanks. I appreciate sharing your experience with us. When I was writing my CAREER proposal, someone with a lot of NSF experience in my university mentored me. He advised me the same things as you said. Reach out to your PO and pitch your idea. Pick up the phone and call them. If they are busy, they will not answer your call.

I understand where you are coming from here. I have also had a chance to meet with some former POs and to be mentored by a few  experienced NSF grant getters and former POs. I had also served on a few panels before applying. However, when it came to the CAREER process, I felt completely unprepared, and many experienced grantees shared how opaque the CAREER process is compared to a standard grant where guidelines are more spelled out. I also had a tremendously hard time connecting with the PO the first year I submitted. Though I had known a few POs in the past, when it came time to submit my CAREER, they had rotated out, so it took me a while to get to know new POs and connect with an available PO. Sometimes it may be the luck of the draw (these past 2 years were especially hard on those submitting grants with all the administrative changes, which I think were stressful for all).

All I can say is, I wish I knew then what I know now. But I also have learned to take things in stride a bit more, and learned of other granting organizations and NSF standard grants that could be fallback plans. I've also become a better grant writer, and become better at conceptualizing and selling my ideas. If this time doesn't work out (last chance for the CAREER for me), I'll be pretty bummed, but I will also have a better idea how to advise and support others, and what options to pursue for funding moving forward.

[alex000]

If there is a panel meeting, is it true that the meeting should be announced in advance in the following link?https://www.nsf.gov/events/advisory.jsp

I couldn't find any panel meetings led by my PO from that website when I checked in the last three months.

Hey all - I am back and shocked to see this thread go from almost no activity to over 20 pages!!

Also, very happy to see that your proposal was funded @zelda166! Congratulations!

I still have no news on my end. It looks like the panels may not even meet for another month, unless it is going to go through ad hoc review.

Congrats to all who received positive news so far. For those who have been declined, keep on keeping on! There is always the next cycle or a standard grant that may fit your needs better!

[J.dodo1988]

The panel was usually led by the non-rotation PO. if your assigned PO is on rotation, you may not see his or her name.

[helloworld]

PO oversees another program to fill in. Must be very busy.

Did anyone hear any news about CMMI-OE? I received no PO contact, no status update, and found nothing on twitter so far.

[taray]

My status date in CMMI ECI changed to 1/4 without any further news

Declined