I was just hoping for some perspective on what works and what doesn't. I'm doing a summer course for the first time, and it was moved online. The good news is that the class was online at registration. It is an upper level course. The class was originally going to be MTW for 2.5 hours a day for a month. I've taught the course before during the normal semester, but my plan was to modify things significantly for the accelerated schedule by cutting down on the reading and lectures and centering the course around a collaborative project involving original research using available sources.
Plenty of this should transfer well to an online format, but the part I'm struggling with is figuring out is what the weekly schedule should look like. Students are going to be doing plenty of work in groups and independently, but there will still be short lectures and reading to provide context. Is it going to be overwhelming to students if a standard week is a reading/short lecture with quiz due on Monday, Some sort of discussion assignment due Wednesday and then some scaffolded assignment for the larger project on Friday? Would a two things due a week schedule make more sense? Are there ways of doing this more outside the box that I'm just not thinking of? Thanks for any help.
It all depends on the students' skills and circumstances, but basically I put it all on them early on. I send out emails and a syllabus saying "look at this, see the work you will need to do, and if you can't do it in this short time period, then this course is not a good fit for you". I try to be quite scary, emphasizing that they are doing 15 weeks of work in 4 weeks or whatever the time period is, and they need to be ready from the get go.
I also try to make as much work as possible available before the start of class, so those who want to get a head start can do so. Very few actually do, but it also highlights that they need to be ready from Day 1. Students who don't around to even checking Blackboard in the first few days need to get a strong message that they need to drop the course.
You need to develop the course into units (typically called "modules" in online courses). Then have the assignments due at the end of each unit, not at various points during the unit. Having assignments due at regular, predictable times is one of the keys to online teaching and not having it all turn into chaos.
So for a 4-week course, the easiest plan is to divide it into four modules and have everything due at the end of each module/week.
I have also done it where module 1 is Monday-through-Wednesday, module 2 is Thursday-through-Sunday, module 3 is Monday-through-Wednesday, module 4 is Thursday-through-Sunday, etc. I will say that one aspect of this that you won't like is that the grading is relentless. That's one reason I recommend week-long modules.
In addition, you need to have some flexibility for people who have internet problems. If you have something due on Monday and another thing on Wednesday and another thing on Saturday, people who have internet problems can get very behind very quickly. In a regular summer, I issued stern warnings about knowing where the public library was, so students back home for the summer could go in and submit work at the library if their home internet was on the fritz. But it's harder under present conditions. One thing to know is that all McDonald's have free wifi, so your students with wifi issues can maybe go sit in the McDonald's parking lot and submit their discussion questions and their papers. But still, I wouldn't lock them into too tight a time schedule, or you will alienate them and make extra hassle for yourself with their panicked emails.
Emphasize from the beginning that classwork should take X hours per day, and that they should check in to the LMS 5-6 days per week if at all possible.
Good luck.
Quote from: Hegemony on April 28, 2020, 07:02:23 AM
You need to develop the course into units (typically called "modules" in online courses). Then have the assignments due at the end of each unit, not at various points during the unit. Having assignments due at regular, predictable times is one of the keys to online teaching and not having it all turn into chaos.
So for a 4-week course, the easiest plan is to divide it into four modules and have everything due at the end of each module/week.
I have also done it where module 1 is Monday-through-Wednesday, module 2 is Thursday-through-Sunday, module 3 is Monday-through-Wednesday, module 4 is Thursday-through-Sunday, etc. I will say that one aspect of this that you won't like is that the grading is relentless. That's one reason I recommend week-long modules.
In addition, you need to have some flexibility for people who have internet problems. If you have something due on Monday and another thing on Wednesday and another thing on Saturday, people who have internet problems can get very behind very quickly. In a regular summer, I issued stern warnings about knowing where the public library was, so students back home for the summer could go in and submit work at the library if their home internet was on the fritz. But it's harder under present conditions. One thing to know is that all McDonald's have free wifi, so your students with wifi issues can maybe go sit in the McDonald's parking lot and submit their discussion questions and their papers. But still, I wouldn't lock them into too tight a time schedule, or you will alienate them and make extra hassle for yourself with their panicked emails.
Emphasize from the beginning that classwork should take X hours per day, and that they should check in to the LMS 5-6 days per week if at all possible.
Good luck.
Thanks, that's helpful. So, basically I should abandon the idea that things that build on each other necessarily need to be due at different times? There can be a contextual lecture, some sort of reading which isn't going to make sense without the lecture, and then an assignment based on applying the reading to some other source and all of those things can just be due at the end of the week?
Depending on your CMS and the needs of your course, you can use Adaptive Release rules so that Item 2 isn't available until Item 1 has been completed/submitted/graded.
Be aware that students will need A LOT of reminders that just because they can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there awaiting their next submission.
Agree with all that's been written, and add:
1. There's almost no time to read, and to write, in a compressed course. Think very carefully about the required workload, perhaps making some readings "recommended". Yes, in theory students are putting in 27 hours a week for a 5-week, 3-credit course (so, about 5.5 hours per day), but even the most efficient student is going to have difficulty sustaining that pace.
2. Any pretense of online "discussion" is going to be difficult to sustain, especially if students get behind. In theory, compressed courses should keep people on track, but anybody with any other kind of obligation is going to find regular interaction difficult.
3. For face-to-face classes, I've found that longer sessions allow for other kinds of activities -- things that take time to set up, or use up a lot of real time to play out. Online, activities that are easier to divide up (several 10 minute videos rather than a 75-minute lecture) tend to do better. TED talk rules, that is. In a compressed course, that means a lot of short things, so see #1 for general advice.
Good luck! My version goes live in 2 weeks.
Put the tasks in order in the Modules, with the necessary links. Like:
Lecture (link)
Reading 1
Reading 2
Assignment on applying reading
Discussion Board
They will need to start all this before the last minute, but that is true of every class, face-to-face or online.
You should send out a reminder when all the stuff is about to be due. So if the end of the module is Sunday evening, and everything is due then, I send out a reminder on Sunday morning, headed "Deadline!" You can automate those so the system sends them out automatically at a certain time. I like to make them a little chatty and summarizing, though, so I write them actually at the time they go out. I say stuff like, "This is a reminder that Module 3 closes tonight (Sunday April 26) at 11:59 pm. So by tonight you should have listened to the lecture, done all the reading, written and turned in the assignment, and posted your two posts on the Discussion Board. Many people have wisely already begun the discussion, and there's lively talk about Reading 1 going on over there. Are you on the side of Lizzie or of Mr. Darcy? Some people are accusing him of being self-satisfied. Go on over and add your views!" Etc.
One advantage of having everything due once a week is that you only have to send out one reminder. If you send out more emails, students easily get overwhelmed, and they will start to lose track. Remember that if they are taking another class as well, that prof hasn't read this discussion, and is sending out 4-5 emails per week on an unpredictable schedule, so the student is already a little overwhelmed by it. So make your class as orderly and predictable as possible.
I agree about the readings — too much reading and they just buckle under the load.
My experience of discussion is that that's the best part, and that they are eager to interact with others. Sometimes it's a struggle to get them to make their first post before the final day. In that case you have the problem of 95% of the discussion taking place in the final hour or two, which is not optimum. Some profs require the first post to be made earlier in the week; some profs do not require it but give a bonus point to first posts made before a certain date.
Here's one trick I learned from an experienced colleague. One problem with deadlines is that it's helpful for you to be on the computer in the hour or so leading up to the deadline, because some students will be having problems and will email you frantically. "I tried to take the quiz and I was halfway through and my internet went down for a minute and I've lost the quiz and it won't let me restart!" "The system is refusing to accept my assignment, can I email it to you?" Etc. And if you're not online they get increasingly panicked. Plus there's a lot of discussion on the discussion boards in that last period, and they love it if you're there commenting and taking part. So instead of having the module end at 11:59 pm, my colleague suggests always having it end earlier, like 9 pm or 10 pm. Then you can be online without having to stay up half the night dealing with panicky students. 9 pm passes and you can shut down the computer and you're all done for the evening. I thought this idea was a stroke of genius, or as we call it, a Jedi Mind Trick.
FWIW, for normal summer classes, I divided my classes into three blocks, with a break between each block. Two of the blocks in each class were devoted to working through the material, and one was devoted to some sort of capstone-ish activity, or presentations, or in-class essay peer review, etc.
Online is... different. If you're doing it asynchronously, then don't feel compelled to fill the entire time with your lectures. Nobody will watch the whole thing anyway. Instead, aim to fill that time with activities and things they do on their own end (they won't do them anyway, but whatever), videos produced by people other than you, etc. If it's synchronous, then I dunno. Since it's upper-level, that might work fairly well anyway. Take advantage of the chat function; they will probably prefer using that to speaking up directly. Don't worry if you're not quite filling the whole time, though.
Quote from: dr_codex on April 28, 2020, 12:31:31 PM
Agree with all that's been written, and add:
1. There's almost no time to read, and to write, in a compressed course. Think very carefully about the required workload, perhaps making some readings "recommended". Yes, in theory students are putting in 27 hours a week for a 5-week, 3-credit course (so, about 5.5 hours per day), but even the most efficient student is going to have difficulty sustaining that pace.
This is what I've learned, too. The demands in my summer courses are lower than they otherwise would be, but the accelerated schedule is hard for the students--not necessarily because I set a killer pace (I don't) but because the students who take classes in the summer (here, at least) are not just taking a single summer class; they're taking
a full course load.
That's obviously not something I'd recommend they do, but there you have it. Realizing they were doing this was a big breakthrough for me last summer. And horrifying.
Quote from: Hegemony on April 28, 2020, 12:34:19 PM
Put the tasks in order in the Modules, with the necessary links. Like:
Lecture (link)
Reading 1
Reading 2
Assignment on applying reading
Discussion Board
Yeah, totally. Otherwise it gets lost, especially since you're not there to constantly remind them in face-to-face classes. Another lesson I learned from the online transition. Frankly, I think it was a mistake on my part not to organize the LMS that way in the first place, even for normal classes.
Yes to the full load issue. Our students are not supposed to be able to sign up for more than 2 courses in a summer session, but I know that they do. And they work.
Quote from: dr_codex on April 28, 2020, 01:46:16 PM
Yes to the full load issue. Our students are not supposed to be able to sign up for more than 2 courses in a summer session, but I know that they do. And they work.
Oh yeah, I forgot that they work, too. Sigh.
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on April 28, 2020, 02:47:52 PM
Quote from: dr_codex on April 28, 2020, 01:46:16 PM
Yes to the full load issue. Our students are not supposed to be able to sign up for more than 2 courses in a summer session, but I know that they do. And they work.
Oh yeah, I forgot that they work, too. Sigh.
Ours too. And they optimistically/foolishly think that "take Basketweaving 101 in just 5 weeks!" means it's somehow less work than the usual 10. Like we'd just give them the same credit for doing 1/2 the class. No students, it's not half the work, it's not even double the work, it's more than double because you won't have the leisure to really mull over the materials before the class moves on to the next topic. Summer classes are for the self-organized, academically stronger students, but our admin keeps pushing them on students who are struggling.
I'm teaching a similar course format in the Summer, and, having done it before, here is my plan:
- Something is going to be due every weekday. My class is a first-semester freshizzle Comp course, so I want to eliminate the question in their heads about "Is anything due today?" Even if they are just submitting a thesis statement or a proposal on some days, something is due. I've found that having assignments due once a week means they wait until the night before it's due to start the work--and disaster ensues.
- Modules work. Comp. tends to naturally fall into a "modular" format because each essay forms its own project
- I state on the syllabus that the work-load for the course is 2-3 hours per weekday. This isn't true for all days, but I've never had a student complain about a reduced workload on a particular day. I'm not sure I'm trying to scare students, but more like cover my behind when they complain that I don't "accommodate their schedules" (one or two usually do).
- I also state that vacations will not be accommodated in any way. If students are going anywhere, they had better have a computer and internet access.
- No discussion boards for my class. They take too much time with little benefit for a Comp. class.
- I drop an essay (I do three instead of four or five] for the accelerated course, but the essay I drop is the easiest one.
- I don't have anything big due on Mondays, or I will not have Sundays off at all.
I'm contemplating revising my late work policy to "punish" late work more severely. We'll see.
Quote from: fishbrains on April 28, 2020, 06:22:29 PM
Something is going to be due every weekday. My class is a first-semester freshizzle Comp course, so I want to eliminate the question in their heads about "Is anything due today?" Even if they are just submitting a thesis statement or a proposal on some days, something is due. I've found that having assignments due once a week means they wait until the night before it's due to start the work--and disaster ensues.
Yes, this is similar to mine. I agree about predictable times, but I don't see why those predictable times can't be "every monday, every wednesday, and every friday" as opposed to "a pile of stuff on Sunday". They always, ALWAYS think they're going to be able to knock out "tonight's homework" in a couple of hours, no matter whether it's a once a week HW or a daily HW. And in a summer class, there's a lot less slack for them to get behind and then catch up.
Hmm — well, my students seem to start in advance, but I teach a course that's on a particular subject that students might be particularly interested in — rather than a standard general education class — so it may be that I get a more motivated group than average. I can see why discussions would be kind of pointless in a Comp class. It's a shame because I find that the discussions are the best part, and in the evaluations students remark on how much they enjoy them. It's the only place where they get to interact with the other students, but in a Comp class, you might have them reading each other's compositions, so that might effectively take the place of the discussion.
Thanks, this is all very helpful. I needed the reminders about managing my own workload. One of the things I've realized from trying to teach three different classes online for half this semester is that getting everything up on the CMS somehow ends up being far harder than teaching a class for me. It should be simpler to only have only one inflexible deadline for myself in terms of putting things up and then the rest of the week I can focus on all of the management of those assignments.
Obviously others have done it, but I would find the goal of having an assignment due every week day too much for me and the students. I guess that they can work ahead, and do assignments early if they want to create a day off for themselves. But most students are not good at doing work ahead of time.
I guess it depends on how many students you have in the class. I'm teaching an online summer class with around 35 students in it. My practice is to be realistic about how much time I am prepared to spend on the class, and design assignments accordingly.
From the administrative view, do not make the course easier in terms of content and demonstrating mastery of that content/skills, whatever that means for this course. As the_geneticist wrote, the university cannot award credit for only half a course.
One way that institutions get in trouble with their accreditor is having accelerated courses be noticeably less work than their full-term counterparts. Accreditors look more closely at the most accelerated courses in large part because they know that the 5.5 hours a day is a heavy lift and therefore students should only be in enrolled in one course at a time while doing everything else in life or two courses and nothing else.
Institutions that let students overload are also asking for additional scrutiny during accreditor review.
Quote from: downer on April 29, 2020, 05:15:00 AM
I guess it depends on how many students you have in the class. I'm teaching an online summer class with around 35 students in it. My practice is to be realistic about how much time I am prepared to spend on the class, and design assignments accordingly.
True that. Our Comp classes are capped between 20 and 25, and you usually lose 3 or 4 students pretty quickly in the first week.
You bring up some great points. Let me ask you this, you are not doing a discussion board and I agree with your reasoning. I always thought a discussion question was needed in any online course.
Quote from: fishbrains on April 28, 2020, 06:22:29 PM
I'm teaching a similar course format in the Summer, and, having done it before, here is my plan:
- Something is going to be due every weekday. My class is a first-semester freshizzle Comp course, so I want to eliminate the question in their heads about "Is anything due today?" Even if they are just submitting a thesis statement or a proposal on some days, something is due. I've found that having assignments due once a week means they wait until the night before it's due to start the work--and disaster ensues.
- Modules work. Comp. tends to naturally fall into a "modular" format because each essay forms its own project
- I state on the syllabus that the work-load for the course is 2-3 hours per weekday. This isn't true for all days, but I've never had a student complain about a reduced workload on a particular day. I'm not sure I'm trying to scare students, but more like cover my behind when they complain that I don't "accommodate their schedules" (one or two usually do).
- I also state that vacations will not be accommodated in any way. If students are going anywhere, they had better have a computer and internet access.
- No discussion boards for my class. They take too much time with little benefit for a Comp. class.
- I drop an essay (I do three instead of four or five] for the accelerated course, but the essay I drop is the easiest one.
- I don't have anything big due on Mondays, or I will not have Sundays off at all.
I'm contemplating revising my late work policy to "punish" late work more severely. We'll see.
Quote from: HigherEd7 on May 01, 2020, 05:44:35 AM
You bring up some great points. Let me ask you this, you are not doing a discussion board and I agree with your reasoning. I always thought a discussion question was needed in any online course.
Discussions are not required in online courses. The relevant regulatory issue is that online courses require peer-to-peer interactions (to distinguish them from correspondance courses, which are not eligible for federal financial aid) and instructor-student interactions. Discussion boards are an easy way to guarantee such interactions. However, you can set up other peer-to-peer interactions, such as peer review of student work (good practice in writing-based courses) or group-work assignments. As always, assigned work should be designed to achieve specific learning outcomes, not just be busy-work for the sake of busy-work.
Quote from: arcturus on May 01, 2020, 05:58:55 AM
Quote from: HigherEd7 on May 01, 2020, 05:44:35 AM
You bring up some great points. Let me ask you this, you are not doing a discussion board and I agree with your reasoning. I always thought a discussion question was needed in any online course.
Discussions are not required in online courses. The relevant regulatory issue is that online courses require peer-to-peer interactions (to distinguish them from correspondance courses, which are not eligible for federal financial aid) and instructor-student interactions. Discussion boards are an easy way to guarantee such interactions. However, you can set up other peer-to-peer interactions, such as peer review of student work (good practice in writing-based courses) or group-work assignments. As always, assigned work should be designed to achieve specific learning outcomes, not just be busy-work for the sake of busy-work.
The regulations also include some evidence that the course, while possibly asynchronous day-to-day, is not self-paced. A distance education course has a cohort of students who are all going through together while a correspondence course is for one student at a time.
A really great self-paced electronic tutorial is not eligible for the same financial aid as a sort-crummy distance education course that relies on an undertrained faculty member herding reluctant learners to do something meaningful every week.
Distance education that is mostly synchronous lectures with a once-per-week assignment due is much more favored in financial aid space than a great all-online course in which the students all go at their own pace without being slowed down by their peers who refuse to prepare and participate.
Quote from: polly_mer on May 02, 2020, 05:57:39 AM
Quote from: arcturus on May 01, 2020, 05:58:55 AM
Quote from: HigherEd7 on May 01, 2020, 05:44:35 AM
You bring up some great points. Let me ask you this, you are not doing a discussion board and I agree with your reasoning. I always thought a discussion question was needed in any online course.
Discussions are not required in online courses. The relevant regulatory issue is that online courses require peer-to-peer interactions (to distinguish them from correspondance courses, which are not eligible for federal financial aid) and instructor-student interactions. Discussion boards are an easy way to guarantee such interactions. However, you can set up other peer-to-peer interactions, such as peer review of student work (good practice in writing-based courses) or group-work assignments. As always, assigned work should be designed to achieve specific learning outcomes, not just be busy-work for the sake of busy-work.
The regulations also include some evidence that the course, while possibly asynchronous day-to-day, is not self-paced. A distance education course has a cohort of students who are all going through together while a correspondence course is for one student at a time.
A really great self-paced electronic tutorial is not eligible for the same financial aid as a sort-crummy distance education course that relies on an undertrained faculty member herding reluctant learners to do something meaningful every week.
Distance education that is mostly synchronous lectures with a once-per-week assignment due is much more favored in financial aid space than a great all-online course in which the students all go at their own pace without being slowed down by their peers who refuse to prepare and participate.
While my online courses are by no means perfect, the bolded sentence is the complaint that I've been getting over the last two years.
To be fair, "group work" has been a student complaint since the time that Socrates put Plato in a discussion agora with Thrasymachus. But online courses exacerbate the problem, especially when they are there only to tick an assessment box, as arcturus notes above.
Quote from: arcturus on May 01, 2020, 05:58:55 AM
Quote from: HigherEd7 on May 01, 2020, 05:44:35 AM
You bring up some great points. Let me ask you this, you are not doing a discussion board and I agree with your reasoning. I always thought a discussion question was needed in any online course.
Discussions are not required in online courses. The relevant regulatory issue is that online courses require peer-to-peer interactions (to distinguish them from correspondance courses, which are not eligible for federal financial aid) and instructor-student interactions. Discussion boards are an easy way to guarantee such interactions. However, you can set up other peer-to-peer interactions, such as peer review of student work (good practice in writing-based courses) or group-work assignments. As always, assigned work should be designed to achieve specific learning outcomes, not just be busy-work for the sake of busy-work.
Thank you for the response, I have always thought discussion questions are needed. I guess I need to rethink giving this assignment in my summer online courses. Is there anything else you can do besides group projects? I have given group projects in the past and there are going to be students in the group who do not do the work and they are very hard to grade.
Quote from: HigherEd7 on May 01, 2020, 05:44:35 AM
You bring up some great points. Let me ask you this, you are not doing a discussion board and I agree with your reasoning. I always thought a discussion question was needed in any online course.
Quote from: fishbrains on April 28, 2020, 06:22:29 PM
I'm teaching a similar course format in the Summer, and, having done it before, here is my plan:
- Something is going to be due every weekday. My class is a first-semester freshizzle Comp course, so I want to eliminate the question in their heads about "Is anything due today?" Even if they are just submitting a thesis statement or a proposal on some days, something is due. I've found that having assignments due once a week means they wait until the night before it's due to start the work--and disaster ensues.
- Modules work. Comp. tends to naturally fall into a "modular" format because each essay forms its own project
- I state on the syllabus that the work-load for the course is 2-3 hours per weekday. This isn't true for all days, but I've never had a student complain about a reduced workload on a particular day. I'm not sure I'm trying to scare students, but more like cover my behind when they complain that I don't "accommodate their schedules" (one or two usually do).
- I also state that vacations will not be accommodated in any way. If students are going anywhere, they had better have a computer and internet access.
- No discussion boards for my class. They take too much time with little benefit for a Comp. class.
- I drop an essay (I do three instead of four or five] for the accelerated course, but the essay I drop is the easiest one.
- I don't have anything big due on Mondays, or I will not have Sundays off at all.
I'm contemplating revising my late work policy to "punish" late work more severely. We'll see.
Just to clarify. I use discussion boards in my literature survey courses. I do so sparingly (generally regarding the more difficult works, so students can see it's not just them not getting the material). But not for composition courses. Especially not for accelerated composition courses.
My best advice about online teaching tends to be to seek advice, but do what works best for you and your students and your specific course. This may seem obvious, but I've seen many online instructors get turned-around trying to do things that just don't work with the course material or course format because some goofball guru said to.
If you can find a way for discussions to be useful for the course, they do promote student engagement. If you have students interacting with each other in other ways, then that may not matter. But as I understand it, student interaction is required for a course to count as the equivalent of an in-person course. If there is no engagement with other students, it's the equivalent of a correspondence course.
Quote from: dr_codex on May 02, 2020, 06:07:24 AM
Quote from: polly_mer on May 02, 2020, 05:57:39 AM
Distance education that is mostly synchronous lectures with a once-per-week assignment due is much more favored in financial aid space than a great all-online course in which the students all go at their own pace without being slowed down by their peers who refuse to prepare and participate.
While my online courses are by no means perfect, the bolded sentence is the complaint that I've been getting over the last two years.
To be fair, "group work" has been a student complaint since the time that Socrates put Plato in a discussion agora with Thrasymachus. But online courses exacerbate the problem, especially when they are there only to tick an assessment box, as arcturus notes above.
Very interesting and thanks for the discussion.
I wonder if I could make "group work" count by putting people into groups by the order they hit a milestone? At least that way the people who are checked out would be in a group together.
Because, yes, in an elementary algebra class I pretty much would be doing it to tick an assessment box.
Quote from: downer on April 29, 2020, 05:15:00 AM
Obviously others have done it, but I would find the goal of having an assignment due every week day too much for me and the students. I guess that they can work ahead, and do assignments early if they want to create a day off for themselves. But most students are not good at doing work ahead of time.
I guess it depends on how many students you have in the class. I'm teaching an online summer class with around 35 students in it. My practice is to be realistic about how much time I am prepared to spend on the class, and design assignments accordingly.
You bring you a great point and I know I have talked about here in the forum. Most people I have talked to give a quiz and a discussion board each week, along with two or three assignments during the semester. If you are teaching 3 online courses with 25-30 students it becomes time consuming to grade discussion posts each week.
Quote from: dr_codex on April 28, 2020, 01:46:16 PM
Yes to the full load issue. Our students are not supposed to be able to sign up for more than 2 courses in a summer session, but I know that they do. And they work.
I heard from the humanities admin that some students--international students, in this case--are taking
SIX courses this summer in a desperate attempt to finish ASAP.
Six. Summer. Courses. Holy crap.