Hi all,
I have been approached by a few start-up/small-sized companies that seem to be interested in my research and they would like me to consult them. They have mentioned they would like to use some of my research in a more commercial environment.
Have you done such type of consulting while being a tenure-track faculty member? If so, did you need to disclose that to your university? How much do you charge per hour? Have you signed some sort of NDA/contract with the company? Any red flags I should be aware of? These are very small companies, so I am also worried I might be getting scammed.. who knows?
Thanks!
I worked as an EA who coordinated consultant visits, so I know the parts I worked on. My viewpoint is "from the other side of the desk;" take what's useful from it....I worked for larger phsrma and software labs, but had friends working in smaller places.
The amount of work may he about the same; check for solvency, speed-to-pay, and other telling features if you can find them, for any group (large or small).
1. Call the company, ask to speak to the EA who coordinates consultants, and ask directly what paperwork is required. It's different for each company, although nondisclosure is indeed usually one of the areas where forms are generated.
2. Also call your own OSR and HR offices, and ask the same things. You will indeed need to stay in touch with them. Some have a cap on how much you can earn, some forbid anything but meals and expense reimbursements, etc.
And check with your own accountant. Different states have different laws about all if this, too; they may also know if it's worth your while, tax-wise, how to declare it, etc.
3. Both the corp.'s Legal office and the HR folks, as well as their Accounting and Security, will probably have materials or online things to fill out, some of those are via the standardized SAP/Oracle Peoplesoft payment/authorization/on-boarding internal websites.
You may well get a structured two-night hotel stay with a smaller nice meal the first night, hosted by the lab PI(s) you're consulting for, and the second night, with the whole lab, or large chunks of it, if the corp. is decently well-off.
These are expected communal bonding and connection-building exercises; attend and be attentive.
Keep receipts for travel reimbursement, unless they book for you; be especially attentive to the EAs who print stuff, book your presentation lunch, fix the projector, and get your security badge issued.
4. Your (usually required, for accreditation) visit actually represents a lot of work for the facility, so answer their requests for your presentation titles, travel time constraints, and other needs promptly. Remember names of the lab rats who come to dinner; do kind, small, reciprocal things where you can, and keep good notes for each visit so you don't waste everyone's time getting up to speed with each visit.
If you're on an every-other-month schedule, make it a point to do an email check-in with the lab PI on the off-month, to avoid surprises.
5. Check thetravel plans and one-page draft schedule they send you ASAP, so errors can be fixed quickly: these often require room, meal, traveo, and equipment bookings, and can get quite tangled at the last minute, so give the EAs plenty of lead-time to sort things out.
5. Look at it less as a "cash cow" and more as an opportunity to teach applied principles in an actual setting. It's the individual relationship-building with people as much as anything, although of course your expertise, insight, and prognostications are what they'll say they're paying you for, they want both a theoretical grounding and outside-the-box challenge to daily-grind thinking most.
Mes deux centimes...
M.
My university allows consulting but we have extensive rules on outside appointments/engagement. We are limited to 20% of our time and there are some activities which are not allowed or would need dean approval. Is this activity just you talking to them? Or are you performing experiments for them using your research equipment on campus?? Even if the activity is allowed, we are also expected to disclose all of these arrangements to the university and the university may want to disclose them on future federal grant applications.
As a graduate student I did participate in some industry projects my advisor arranged. My advisor actually paid us extra when we did those as we were taking time away from our thesis research and couldn't publish the results. We did get an interesting experience and I think the group got a lot of money which made it worthwhile. Haven't done this as a faculty but I would go through your university.
Thank you both for your responses. I had previously talked to the chairperson of my department about external consulting opportunities and he had mentioned to me that it is possible. I should probably talk to him again and ask what the overall process looks like.
I will just talk to these companies. I will not run any experiments for them or involve any of my graduate students. They are fairly small companies, so I am not sure what the impact will be.
I am thinking about this opportunity as a way to make a bit more money and also as a way to eventually engage with larger corporations, which could result in funding for my entire group in the future (for fundamental research purposes) and also joint publications.
But for the time being and considering these very small companies (which may or may not exist in a few years), I simply see that as an opportunity for extra income and also networking.
At most universities, the rule is one day per week, but with disclosure in advance. The approval chain verifies that there is no conflict of interest or conflict of commitment. For what you describe, it should be easy, but if these are companies who also sponsor your university research, it gets dicey. Also if you involve any university resources or personnel, it's REAL dicey.
I would also caution you that consulting can be a time sink. That is, it's always appealing to make a few bucks, but if in doing so you miss a proposal deadline or something, that's real bad. I assume your tenure case is well in hand or you wouldn't be considering this.
As far as rates go: Figure out your university hourly rate, all-in (including fringe and F&A), and then add perhaps 50%. That's a good starting point. Something between $100 and $200 per hour is pretty reasonable.
Quote from: pgher on July 18, 2021, 06:11:21 PM
At most universities, the rule is one day per week, but with disclosure in advance. The approval chain verifies that there is no conflict of interest or conflict of commitment. For what you describe, it should be easy, but if these are companies who also sponsor your university research, it gets dicey. Also if you involve any university resources or personnel, it's REAL dicey.
I would also caution you that consulting can be a time sink. That is, it's always appealing to make a few bucks, but if in doing so you miss a proposal deadline or something, that's real bad. I assume your tenure case is well in hand or you wouldn't be considering this.
As far as rates go: Figure out your university hourly rate, all-in (including fringe and F&A), and then add perhaps 50%. That's a good starting point. Something between $100 and $200 per hour is pretty reasonable.
Thank you for all the great advice. Tenure-wise, I am more than fine. I also assumed that when university resources are involved, the situation will get dicey. That's why my plan is to simply talk to the companies. If they want to implement my research in a commercial environment, that's fine. I will simply consult them about that.
I would imagine that it is typical to have an initial call to discuss details with the companies and then probably look into the required paperwork, right?
Quote from: research_prof on July 18, 2021, 07:48:00 PM
Quote from: pgher on July 18, 2021, 06:11:21 PM
At most universities, the rule is one day per week, but with disclosure in advance. The approval chain verifies that there is no conflict of interest or conflict of commitment. For what you describe, it should be easy, but if these are companies who also sponsor your university research, it gets dicey. Also if you involve any university resources or personnel, it's REAL dicey.
I would also caution you that consulting can be a time sink. That is, it's always appealing to make a few bucks, but if in doing so you miss a proposal deadline or something, that's real bad. I assume your tenure case is well in hand or you wouldn't be considering this.
As far as rates go: Figure out your university hourly rate, all-in (including fringe and F&A), and then add perhaps 50%. That's a good starting point. Something between $100 and $200 per hour is pretty reasonable.
Thank you for all the great advice. Tenure-wise, I am more than fine. I also assumed that when university resources are involved, the situation will get dicey. That's why my plan is to simply talk to the companies. If they want to implement my research in a commercial environment, that's fine. I will simply consult them about that.
I would imagine that it is typical to have an initial call to discuss details with the companies and then probably look into the required paperwork, right?
Yes, absolutely. Make sure they are people you want to work with, projects you want to do, etc. And start small--promise a brief examination for a small number of hours, so you can try each other out.
QuoteIf they want to implement my research in a commercial environment, that's fine. I will simply consult them about that.
Your university might still need to be involved (if only to take a cut) in any commercialization of research. Talk with the companies to see what they are interested in, but you'll also have to talk to your university about intellectual property.
Quote from: Morden on July 18, 2021, 09:23:25 PM
QuoteIf they want to implement my research in a commercial environment, that's fine. I will simply consult them about that.
Your university might still need to be involved (if only to take a cut) in any commercialization of research. Talk with the companies to see what they are interested in, but you'll also have to talk to your university about intellectual property.
This, and my sense is that there may be federal or state constraints depending on the field. I have not consulted in a decade so if your university has a research officer that would be the best place to start.
You should consult with your office of sponsored research to learn if there are rules regarding intellectual property, etc. I just recently completed my University's annual financial disclosure and conflict of interest form. It included the following statement
QuoteFaculty and staff must disclose their outside activities and/or Significant Financial Interests in outside organizations that relate to their University Responsibilities on an annual basis by submitting the Disclosure Form. In addition, an updated Disclosure Form must be submitted within 30 days of any significant change in outside interests or Significant Financial Interests.
I expect most Universities have some rules regarding conflict of interest and intellectual property rights.
Quote from: Morden on July 18, 2021, 09:23:25 PM
QuoteIf they want to implement my research in a commercial environment, that's fine. I will simply consult them about that.
Your university might still need to be involved (if only to take a cut) in any commercialization of research. Talk with the companies to see what they are interested in, but you'll also have to talk to your university about intellectual property.
Yes, you usually have an intellectual property agreement with your university, and if one isn't careful, then everyone else gets their cut of the intellectual property before you do. I recall being on a EU collaboration grant which asserted IP rights to any commercializable research that arises, and the bottom line seemed to be that my university would get their pound of flesh, as would the EU, and I would be left with nothing.
Thank you all for your comments.
One point I would like to mention is that my research is already public (there is a published paper). Anyone that has access to the paper can implement what the paper describes in any environment they like on their own. Also, this research is funded by NSF, so it has to be public and the university has already taken its cut (it's called indirect cost from the NSF grant).
Am I missing anything else here?
Depending on your intellectual property agreement with the university, they may still have an interest in commercialization of the research--even if it has been published, even if it is funded through an outside source. Call the research office and ask.
Beyond taking a cut though, my university would want to disclose this funding arrangement to the NSF (either now for your current grant or for any future grants). At least at my school, that seems to be the driving concern. If you are profiting from the outcomes of the research through this consulting arrangement could it make you biased in your future experimentation in lab? If a follow up study showed the method was less promising would you be less likely to publish it? I'm not saying you are unethical!! Just that there could be a potential perceived COI so the university would want that disclosed. Our university is completely paranoid after the recent faculty arrests and is most concerned with disclosing absolutely every potential arrangement to avoid issues with federal grant funding.
Quote from: research_prof on July 19, 2021, 05:22:12 PM
Thank you all for your comments.
One point I would like to mention is that my research is already public (there is a published paper). Anyone that has access to the paper can implement what the paper describes in any environment they like on their own. Also, this research is funded by NSF, so it has to be public and the university has already taken its cut (it's called indirect cost from the NSF grant).
Am I missing anything else here?
Quote from: doc700 on July 20, 2021, 05:23:16 AM
Beyond taking a cut though, my university would want to disclose this funding arrangement to the NSF (either now for your current grant or for any future grants). At least at my school, that seems to be the driving concern. If you are profiting from the outcomes of the research through this consulting arrangement could it make you biased in your future experimentation in lab? If a follow up study showed the method was less promising would you be less likely to publish it? I'm not saying you are unethical!! Just that there could be a potential perceived COI so the university would want that disclosed. Our university is completely paranoid after the recent faculty arrests and is most concerned with disclosing absolutely every potential arrangement to avoid issues with federal grant funding.
Quote from: research_prof on July 19, 2021, 05:22:12 PM
Thank you all for your comments.
One point I would like to mention is that my research is already public (there is a published paper). Anyone that has access to the paper can implement what the paper describes in any environment they like on their own. Also, this research is funded by NSF, so it has to be public and the university has already taken its cut (it's called indirect cost from the NSF grant).
Am I missing anything else here?
Right. I was actually planning to discuss that with my NSF PD. Will see how it goes...
You may need to be judicious in the order you have these conversations.
From what I know, again, at one remove, the fellow I worked for most closely would probably have checked within the school first, and while doing so, would have asked if there were any red flags he should be aware of when later taking with the grantmakers, etc.
He'd then have gone to the international folks we had MOUs with, and the global funders.
Circling outwards, I think he called it.
At the same time, he often had backdoor conversations with the people that reported to him on the ground in the various sites, to take the local temperatures there as well...he was very canny, my guv'nor.....
But the idea as I understood it was to proceed in such a way as to be sure that at each step, he had assurances and not surprises along the way.
It also helped thst he was a gregarious, larger-than-life fellow with astounding stories to tell, so people understood why he would be asked to consult, present, etc.
He allayed a lot of suspicion in some very weird, unlikely situations just by being unfailingly genial and transparent, all the time.
In a different setting, when I scheduled consultants, all the paperwork described above had to be in order before they could step foot on the property.
So, start trailing the paper first.
M.
$100-$200/hr would be far too low for most science fields.
Quote from: fuwafuwa on July 21, 2021, 10:34:10 PM
$100-$200/hr would be far too low for most science fields.
So, what would be the typical cost per hour of consulting for science fields?