One of my colleagues at another institution is reporting a major headache. His university's student disabilities office has recently been adding Hy-Flex as valid accommodation options. The local office is claiming that Hy-Flex is now an approved accommodation through the Americans with Disabilities Act, and that any students "needing" Hy-Flex can now get it for any course that they want to.
So now my colleague and the faculty at his institution are having a nightmare of a time trying to run both regular classroom and fully-online formats simultaneously every time that the disabilities office delivers a letter with "Hy-Flex" listed as a required student accommodation. These are not covid students asking for the hy-flex accommodations. These are regular students with regular disabilities.
I was unaware that the Americans with Disabilities Act has now added hy-flex to the list of course accommodations that universities must comply with. Can anyone tell me when this happened, and where I can locate the documentation support showing this? Or if this is just bunk? My own university basically zeroed out hy-flex instruction last year, and I haven't heard a peep from any of the faculty about them being required to do hy-flex to comply with ADA regulations.
Saw this coming.
The ADA just requires "reasonable accommodations". It is up to the university to determine what those reasonable accommodations are. So this is on that university's accommodations office, not federal law.
How are we/they defining "hi flex"
What specifically do they expect that the faculty should be doing?
IF they want a recording of every class, I am not sure that we have the technology to do that at my employer!
IF I used power points in a class, perhaps, but I use a document camera and I have already confirmed that there is no way currently to have the document camera feed specifically recorded. I can have the camera that is in the back of the room focus on the screen, but the ability to actually 'see' it in the recording is questionable. (Simply shrinking a 6' by 8' screen to a laptop screen - 14 inches?- makes it nearly unreadable).
So how is compliance with ADA requirements being operationalized by this university?
Quote from: clean on February 11, 2022, 01:18:14 PM
How are we/they defining "hi flex"
It means that anything that you do in the classroom, a
fully online equivalent must also be made available. This includes classroom lectures, classroom notes, classroom discussions, and any and all assessments.
That's how my colleague's university is requiring hy-flex.
....
Im not teaching the same class twice, much less 100 times to accommodate the university's new definition of accommodation....
But my count down timer says I have 1053 days until my target retirement date.
and as I pointed out, our technology is not yet sufficient to support this.
ON the other hand, my chair has pushed through putting our major into the 100% online program, so next year we will start a rotation where All of the majors will be taking some classes online (even though there may be only 5 additional students in the online program, ALL 35 students will be forced to the online sections as they are offered, as we dont have sufficient faculty to support both a face to face and online degree program!)
Im glad Im not a student these days!
I can easily imagine lots of faculty doing a "passive aggressive" pushback on this by becoming incompetent with the technology.
Because I'd be likely to do that, if I didn't just plain refuse.
That said, I do have slides with audio available for most of my courses now. I'd encourage some kind of asynchonous work.
I have a record high number of students requesting ADA accommodations this term. I believe that I'm currently at 7-8. But I'm not seeing an accommodation for hy-flex anywhere.
Has anyone else ever had a hy-flex accommodation printed onto any of their letters from their disabilities offices?
I have not seen hy-flex listed in any accommodation letter I've ever been given, but my uni tried to move in this direction until faculty pushed back. The ADA and the relevant case law do not mandate a change in class format under the category of "reasonable" accommodations. Admins love to hide behind "accreditation requires this" when they want to push faculty around, but I'd encourage people to poke around on the websites of your accreditation agency. I found our administration was just blowing smoke.
Quote from: Aster on February 12, 2022, 05:46:07 AM
Has anyone else ever had a hy-flex accommodation printed onto any of their letters from their disabilities offices?
Not yet, but my community college has also kept at least one online section of every course other than a few science/medical/vo-tech labs.
I personally have not had HyFlex as such requested, and I can't imagine that I would. But I know some faculty who have received requests from our disability group for students to attend in person classes in a remote capacity for the whole semester this year (usually students at high risk for severe covid who for some reason can't be vaccinated). I think these have generally been considered reasonable in large, lecture based classes, but faculty have successfully pushed back in discussion based or lab based classes.
But our disability service's new favorite requests are for short term flexibility for attendance and due dates for students who have conditions that can "flare", and they do some pushing that we should provide synchronous remote options or asynchronous makeup options for some of these students. I think about 10% of my students this semester have this accommodation, and while I am supportive it is really quite disruptive at times, especially in courses with large in-class discussion or in-class activity components. I have generally been successful at pushing back on the "reasonable" part to limit the number of times students can invoke their accommodation each semester, but then I'm stuck tracking it and having painful discussions when they run out of opportunities.
If the Hyflex mode requires significantly more time, then the school needs to provide the additional staff, just as they would a sign-language interperter or similar accomodation. It is not the instructor's responsibility to do so.
Quote from: kiana on February 12, 2022, 06:48:14 AM
Quote from: Aster on February 12, 2022, 05:46:07 AM
Has anyone else ever had a hy-flex accommodation printed onto any of their letters from their disabilities offices?
Not yet, but my community college has also kept at least one online section of every course other than a few science/medical/vo-tech labs.
We do this also, but that is primarily for covid pandemic purposes. We have already phased many of those pandemic-remote courses out, and will probably be phasing the remainder out by the end of this term.
Quote from: Aster on February 11, 2022, 01:22:14 PM
Quote from: clean on February 11, 2022, 01:18:14 PM
How are we/they defining "hi flex"
It means that anything that you do in the classroom, a fully online equivalent must also be made available. This includes classroom lectures, classroom notes, classroom discussions, and any and all assessments.
That's how my colleague's university is requiring hy-flex.
Do you know if that requires
synchronous online "equivalents", or is asynchronous an option?
Quote from: marshwiggle on February 12, 2022, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: Aster on February 11, 2022, 01:22:14 PM
Quote from: clean on February 11, 2022, 01:18:14 PM
How are we/they defining "hi flex"
It means that anything that you do in the classroom, a fully online equivalent must also be made available. This includes classroom lectures, classroom notes, classroom discussions, and any and all assessments.
That's how my colleague's university is requiring hy-flex.
Do you know if that requires synchronous online "equivalents", or is asynchronous an option?
From what I've been told, the class sessions must be synchronous, and simultaneously running both online and televideo formats.
I have not seen hy-flex designated as an ADA accommodation at my Uni on the accommodation forms, but we were strongly encouraged to do some aspects of hy-flex (e.g., stream and record all class sessions) for universal access. We are also strongly encouraged to be "flexible" with attendance/in-class work. I don't grade on attendance, but I've had to adjust the format of "in-class" activities to allow for submission outside of class (I also have a certain number of drops). I kept some exams online (only the ones designed to be open note/book--given the exam fail rates I still have, if my students are cheating, they are not doing it well). Some of my major assessments do require in-person participation and, so far, I've not had any push back on those.
Quote from: OneMoreYear on February 12, 2022, 04:01:07 PM
I have not seen hy-flex designated as an ADA accommodation at my Uni on the accommodation forms, but we were strongly encouraged to do some aspects of hy-flex (e.g., stream and record all class sessions) for universal access. We are also strongly encouraged to be "flexible" with attendance/in-class work. I don't grade on attendance, but I've had to adjust the format of "in-class" activities to allow for submission outside of class (I also have a certain number of drops). I kept some exams online (only the ones designed to be open note/book--given the exam fail rates I still have, if my students are cheating, they are not doing it well). Some of my major assessments do require in-person participation and, so far, I've not had any push back on those.
Is this policy just for covid, or did your institution have it prior to the pandemic?
My college has a lot of "covid accommodation" policies. Some of them have already been phased out, and many others are expected to be removed by the end of the summer. The U.S. Department of Education and the regional accreditors are not expected to remain dormant for much longer, and their temporary waivers for things like remote learning, attendance verification for financial aid, etc... are not expected to persist.
Quote from: Aster on February 16, 2022, 05:48:23 AM
Quote from: OneMoreYear on February 12, 2022, 04:01:07 PM
I have not seen hy-flex designated as an ADA accommodation at my Uni on the accommodation forms, but we were strongly encouraged to do some aspects of hy-flex (e.g., stream and record all class sessions) for universal access. We are also strongly encouraged to be "flexible" with attendance/in-class work. I don't grade on attendance, but I've had to adjust the format of "in-class" activities to allow for submission outside of class (I also have a certain number of drops). I kept some exams online (only the ones designed to be open note/book--given the exam fail rates I still have, if my students are cheating, they are not doing it well). Some of my major assessments do require in-person participation and, so far, I've not had any push back on those.
Is this policy just for covid, or did your institution have it prior to the pandemic?
My college has a lot of "covid accommodation" policies. Some of them have already been phased out, and many others are expected to be removed by the end of the summer. The U.S. Department of Education and the regional accreditors are not expected to remain dormant for much longer, and their temporary waivers for things like remote learning, attendance verification for financial aid, etc... are not expected to persist.
Yeah, I think that's a good distinction to make. We should all be giving a lot of leeway for student absences and other issues caused by covid.
In some contexts, that could create a disability accommodation claim. If, for example, students who can't enter the country can take the class via a Zoom stream, it would be hard to argue that a student who can't attend class because of social anxiety shouldn't also be able to use the same zoom stream. What you aren't allowed to do is arbitrarily decide that a disability can't be accommodated.
Quote from: Caracal on February 16, 2022, 08:11:18 AM
Quote from: Aster on February 16, 2022, 05:48:23 AM
Quote from: OneMoreYear on February 12, 2022, 04:01:07 PM
I have not seen hy-flex designated as an ADA accommodation at my Uni on the accommodation forms, but we were strongly encouraged to do some aspects of hy-flex (e.g., stream and record all class sessions) for universal access. We are also strongly encouraged to be "flexible" with attendance/in-class work. I don't grade on attendance, but I've had to adjust the format of "in-class" activities to allow for submission outside of class (I also have a certain number of drops). I kept some exams online (only the ones designed to be open note/book--given the exam fail rates I still have, if my students are cheating, they are not doing it well). Some of my major assessments do require in-person participation and, so far, I've not had any push back on those.
Is this policy just for covid, or did your institution have it prior to the pandemic?
My college has a lot of "covid accommodation" policies. Some of them have already been phased out, and many others are expected to be removed by the end of the summer. The U.S. Department of Education and the regional accreditors are not expected to remain dormant for much longer, and their temporary waivers for things like remote learning, attendance verification for financial aid, etc... are not expected to persist.
Yeah, I think that's a good distinction to make. We should all be giving a lot of leeway for student absences and other issues caused by covid.
In some contexts, that could create a disability accommodation claim. If, for example, students who can't enter the country can take the class via a Zoom stream, it would be hard to argue that a student who can't attend class because of social anxiety shouldn't also be able to use the same zoom stream. What you aren't allowed to do is arbitrarily decide that a disability can't be accommodated.
For my Uni, it's currently a response to COVID. We were theoretically supposed to have most of our classes in-person this semester and to be able to have the expectation that students attend in person, but there was an immediate departmental pivot at the beginning of the semester for continued flexibility. So, I stream for all classes (my lab-based class as it's own complications I won't get into here). And we don't ask for a reason (e.g. you could be streaming because you are exposed to COVID, because you're car won't start, because you don't have childcare, because you don't feel like coming, whatever). I am required to teach from the classroom no matter how many students (if any) actually show up in person.
Quote from: Caracal on February 16, 2022, 08:11:18 AM
it would be hard to argue that a student who can't attend class because of social anxiety shouldn't also be able to use the same zoom stream. What you aren't allowed to do is arbitrarily decide that a disability can't be accommodated.
Actually not hard to argue because enabling someone with social anxiety to avoid social situations is the very worst thing you can do for them (avoidance increases the anxiety over time). Our accessibility office would not give such an accommodation, but rather refer the student to the counseling center for help with their social anxiety (which is going to include exposure therapy).
Quote from: Puget on February 16, 2022, 09:48:54 AM
Quote from: Caracal on February 16, 2022, 08:11:18 AM
it would be hard to argue that a student who can't attend class because of social anxiety shouldn't also be able to use the same zoom stream. What you aren't allowed to do is arbitrarily decide that a disability can't be accommodated.
Actually not hard to argue because enabling someone with social anxiety to avoid social situations is the very worst thing you can do for them (avoidance increases the anxiety over time).
This raises a question, which you might be in a position to answer. Is there a stated principle in disability accommodations that they should be geared toward the students' long term improvement, rather than making them feel better in their current situation? I could see those potentially being in conflict at least some of the time.
Quote from: marshwiggle on February 16, 2022, 10:28:54 AM
Quote from: Puget on February 16, 2022, 09:48:54 AM
Quote from: Caracal on February 16, 2022, 08:11:18 AM
it would be hard to argue that a student who can't attend class because of social anxiety shouldn't also be able to use the same zoom stream. What you aren't allowed to do is arbitrarily decide that a disability can't be accommodated.
Actually not hard to argue because enabling someone with social anxiety to avoid social situations is the very worst thing you can do for them (avoidance increases the anxiety over time).
This raises a question, which you might be in a position to answer. Is there a stated principle in disability accommodations that they should be geared toward the students' long term improvement, rather than making them feel better in their current situation? I could see those potentially being in conflict at least some of the time.
Not in terms of the ADA so far as I know. But our student accessibility office certainly takes into account what is in the best interests of the student when determining what a reasonable and appropriate accommodation is. So this is going to vary locally.
They also take seriously that a reasonable accommodation cannot fundamentally alter the educational objectives and requirements of the course, so what is reasonable depends on the course. e.g., for a course fulfilling our "oral literacy" requirement, giving presentations live in front of the class is non-negotiable because that's the skill being evaluated, even if the student might otherwise get an accommodation to give presentations in some other format. Likewise, a student is not going to get an online accommodation for a lab course, etc. A lot of times the accommodation letter will append "when educationally appropriate" to an accommodation.
Quote from: Puget on February 11, 2022, 01:16:58 PM
The ADA just requires "reasonable accommodations". It is up to the university to determine what those reasonable accommodations are. So this is on that university's accommodations office, not federal law.
This is very true on the front end. However, should a lawsuit arise, it will be up to a judge or jury to determine what is "reasonable."
I had a student ask for essentially HyFlex before the start of this semester. . It was not for COVID, but they clearly got the idea because of COVID accommodations. They did not YET have any official ADA accommodations, but rather a newly diagnosed medical condition that will ultimately result in some sort of accommodations. Thankfully for me, the class in question also has a lab, and it became clear when talking to this student that they were not yet at a point with their medical issues to be safe while in the lab. I convinced this student to wait to another semester to take this class.
So it's coming. It's just a question of whether your Accommodations office wants to push for it.
Quote from: aside on February 16, 2022, 10:54:53 AM
Quote from: Puget on February 11, 2022, 01:16:58 PM
The ADA just requires "reasonable accommodations". It is up to the university to determine what those reasonable accommodations are. So this is on that university's accommodations office, not federal law.
This is very true on the front end. However, should a lawsuit arise, it will be up to a judge or jury to determine what is "reasonable."
How many times has your school had such a case actually go to a jury?
Quote from: Hibush on February 16, 2022, 09:57:21 PM
Quote from: aside on February 16, 2022, 10:54:53 AM
Quote from: Puget on February 11, 2022, 01:16:58 PM
The ADA just requires "reasonable accommodations". It is up to the university to determine what those reasonable accommodations are. So this is on that university's accommodations office, not federal law.
This is very true on the front end. However, should a lawsuit arise, it will be up to a judge or jury to determine what is "reasonable."
How many times has your school had such a case actually go to a jury?
I will not comment on what has happened at my school. If you are suggesting most cases are settled before reaching a trial, then I would agree that is likely. If you're suggesting such lawsuits are unlikely in the first place, then a quick Google of "ada lawsuit against university" might be helpful.
My point remains that it is not always up to the university to determine what reasonable accommodations are. I'll happily revise my earlier statement to "However, should a lawsuit arise, it
may be up to a judge or jury to determine what is 'reasonable'."
I had to tell students the first day of class that Zoom class was not an option if they can't come. F2F or bust.
Quote from: Mobius on February 18, 2022, 01:40:50 PM
I had to tell students the first day of class that Zoom class was not an option if they can't come. F2F or bust.
I think that every one of us has had that conversation within the last year.
As schools and universities reopen more and more, paid ZOOM licenses are going to be expiring en masse. I have been mildly curious to see how many of ZOOM's 4,000+ employees will be left by 2023.
Quote from: Aster on February 21, 2022, 09:59:38 AM
Quote from: Mobius on February 18, 2022, 01:40:50 PM
I had to tell students the first day of class that Zoom class was not an option if they can't come. F2F or bust.
I think that every one of us has had that conversation within the last year.
As schools and universities reopen more and more, paid ZOOM licenses are going to be expiring en masse. I have been mildly curious to see how many of ZOOM's 4,000+ employees will be left by 2023.
Well, I'm still using Zoom to have individual meetings with students on days when I'm not on campus, or when students can't make it to campus but want to meet with me. I doubt universities are that big a portion of Zoom business anyway and many companies have realized that they can save a lot of money by having many people do much of their work remotely.
Quote from: Caracal on February 21, 2022, 10:12:02 AM
Quote from: Aster on February 21, 2022, 09:59:38 AM
Quote from: Mobius on February 18, 2022, 01:40:50 PM
I had to tell students the first day of class that Zoom class was not an option if they can't come. F2F or bust.
I think that every one of us has had that conversation within the last year.
As schools and universities reopen more and more, paid ZOOM licenses are going to be expiring en masse. I have been mildly curious to see how many of ZOOM's 4,000+ employees will be left by 2023.
Well, I'm still using Zoom to have individual meetings with students on days when I'm not on campus, or when students can't make it to campus but want to meet with me. I doubt universities are that big a portion of Zoom business anyway and many companies have realized that they can save a lot of money by having many people do much of their work remotely.
I believe that you may be underestimating universities. You might be only thinking about ones based out of the U.S., rather than globally. Although checking ZOOM's financials, the bulk of their revenue stream is still coming out of the Americas.
But it is the K-12 schools that are by far the greater customers.
The education sector currently makes up one of the larger profit categories for ZOOM, with at least 100,000 separate institutions using it. ZOOM subsidies for education were extremely generous during the pandemic. Indeed, ZOOM's CEO was extraordinarily charitable to the education sector during covid. But most of the ZOOM subsidies, discounts, and free accounts for schools are either already gone or will be going away soon.
Don't get me wrong, ZOOM is still a very good bargain, and a great piece of software But the company is cresting the top of its growth wave right now, and most economists are predicting a plunge in 2022. And a lot of schools will probably be cutting the cord in 2022. My own institution has been wanting to do it for over a year now, but between covid resurgences and vigorous faculty pushback, we're still holding onto our ZOOM license for the short term.
Quote from: Aster on February 22, 2022, 06:08:21 AM
Quote from: Caracal on February 21, 2022, 10:12:02 AM
Quote from: Aster on February 21, 2022, 09:59:38 AM
Quote from: Mobius on February 18, 2022, 01:40:50 PM
I had to tell students the first day of class that Zoom class was not an option if they can't come. F2F or bust.
I think that every one of us has had that conversation within the last year.
As schools and universities reopen more and more, paid ZOOM licenses are going to be expiring en masse. I have been mildly curious to see how many of ZOOM's 4,000+ employees will be left by 2023.
Well, I'm still using Zoom to have individual meetings with students on days when I'm not on campus, or when students can't make it to campus but want to meet with me. I doubt universities are that big a portion of Zoom business anyway and many companies have realized that they can save a lot of money by having many people do much of their work remotely.
I believe that you may be underestimating universities. You might be only thinking about ones based out of the U.S., rather than globally. Although checking ZOOM's financials, the bulk of their revenue stream is still coming out of the Americas.
But it is the K-12 schools that are by far the greater customers.
The education sector currently makes up one of the larger profit categories for ZOOM, with at least 100,000 separate institutions using it. ZOOM subsidies for education were extremely generous during the pandemic. Indeed, ZOOM's CEO was extraordinarily charitable to the education sector during covid. But most of the ZOOM subsidies, discounts, and free accounts for schools are either already gone or will be going away soon.
Don't get me wrong, ZOOM is still a very good bargain, and a great piece of software But the company is cresting the top of its growth wave right now, and most economists are predicting a plunge in 2022. And a lot of schools will probably be cutting the cord in 2022. My own institution has been wanting to do it for over a year now, but between covid resurgences and vigorous faculty pushback, we're still holding onto our ZOOM license for the short term.
Yeah, could be. I suppose that if you're just having one one one meetings, there's not much need for Zoom. I could just as easily use the university gmail system.
My Spring classes are "in person only". No hybrid/remote/online/hyflex/etc. Students are registering right now. I'll likely have to send out a few reminders.
Quote from: Aster on February 22, 2022, 06:08:21 AM
Quote from: Caracal on February 21, 2022, 10:12:02 AM
Quote from: Aster on February 21, 2022, 09:59:38 AM
Quote from: Mobius on February 18, 2022, 01:40:50 PM
I had to tell students the first day of class that Zoom class was not an option if they can't come. F2F or bust.
I think that every one of us has had that conversation within the last year.
As schools and universities reopen more and more, paid ZOOM licenses are going to be expiring en masse. I have been mildly curious to see how many of ZOOM's 4,000+ employees will be left by 2023.
Well, I'm still using Zoom to have individual meetings with students on days when I'm not on campus, or when students can't make it to campus but want to meet with me. I doubt universities are that big a portion of Zoom business anyway and many companies have realized that they can save a lot of money by having many people do much of their work remotely.
I believe that you may be underestimating universities. You might be only thinking about ones based out of the U.S., rather than globally. Although checking ZOOM's financials, the bulk of their revenue stream is still coming out of the Americas.
But it is the K-12 schools that are by far the greater customers.
The education sector currently makes up one of the larger profit categories for ZOOM, with at least 100,000 separate institutions using it. ZOOM subsidies for education were extremely generous during the pandemic. Indeed, ZOOM's CEO was extraordinarily charitable to the education sector during covid. But most of the ZOOM subsidies, discounts, and free accounts for schools are either already gone or will be going away soon.
Don't get me wrong, ZOOM is still a very good bargain, and a great piece of software But the company is cresting the top of its growth wave right now, and most economists are predicting a plunge in 2022. And a lot of schools will probably be cutting the cord in 2022. My own institution has been wanting to do it for over a year now, but between covid resurgences and vigorous faculty pushback, we're still holding onto our ZOOM license for the short term.
I'm sure some will drop it, but we had paid accounts before COVID as did most research universities I'm familiar with-- it was already used a lot for collaborations with colleagues elsewhere.
It's pretty crazy that what was a fairly niche product was successfully scaled up to something literally everyone and their mother used for everything with hardly a glitch (a bit of slowness in the beginning that got resolved quickly). Surely something that will be taught as a case study in business schools for years to come.
+1
Maybe a three-part case, like, one on how it started, and one on pre-Covid, and one on, well, post-Covid if we ever get there....
The questions for each section would be interesting to write.
M.