The Fora: A Higher Education Community

Quote from: Kron3007 on December 18, 2024, 04:06:41 PM

Quote from: dismalist on December 18, 2024, 01:39:19 PM

Quote from: Kron3007 on December 18, 2024, 12:19:10 PM

Quote from: marshwiggle on December 18, 2024, 09:55:55 AM

Quote from: Kron3007 on December 18, 2024, 06:38:23 AM

Quote from: dismalist on December 16, 2024, 06:34:47 PMIt's rational for voters to be ignorant. It's expensive to become expert on the issues, and one's vote makes no difference to the out come of the election. Therefore, get cheap information, which means bad information.

From the point of view of suppliers, the customers do not want their pre-conceived notions contradicted, so don't contradict them!

We can lament this or accept this, but my objection to the discussion is the assumption that any of this is asymmetric. The rationally ignorant voter will be found on both the left and the right. Welcome to the club!

If you don't see the difference between fox and the more left leaning cable news outlets you are not looking too hard.

They are all bad, but that doesn't mean they are all equally so.

Part of the problem is that the overton window has shifted to the left, so that Fox is basically alone on the right, and looks more extreme for that reason. There isn't really any major news outlet that strives to be neutral, so the cluster on the left seem "mainstream" because they don't deviate much from each other. (For example, how many use terms like "reproductive rights" when discussing abortion, rather than something more neutral like "access to abortion"?)

 

I am not talking about which words they choose to use, I am referring to the number of lies and false claims they make.  Fox "news" is quantitatively less factual than most of the other networks.  It dosn't seem less factual because it is the only one on that side, it seems less factual because they tell more lies. 

 

Lies are cheap to produce. Some customers wish to hear them. I expect perfect symmetry in lying.

You can expect whatever you like.  The analyses I have seen clearly show that out of the main cable news outlets Fox has more false claims. Some particular shows on Fox are much worse than others, but as a whole, fox is not too concerned with accuracy.

You believe your preferred lies; I believe my preferred lies. Everybody else believes their preferred lies.

Quote from: dismalist on December 18, 2024, 01:39:19 PM

Quote from: Kron3007 on December 18, 2024, 12:19:10 PM

Quote from: marshwiggle on December 18, 2024, 09:55:55 AM

Quote from: Kron3007 on December 18, 2024, 06:38:23 AM

Quote from: dismalist on December 16, 2024, 06:34:47 PMIt's rational for voters to be ignorant. It's expensive to become expert on the issues, and one's vote makes no difference to the out come of the election. Therefore, get cheap information, which means bad information.

From the point of view of suppliers, the customers do not want their pre-conceived notions contradicted, so don't contradict them!

We can lament this or accept this, but my objection to the discussion is the assumption that any of this is asymmetric. The rationally ignorant voter will be found on both the left and the right. Welcome to the club!

If you don't see the difference between fox and the more left leaning cable news outlets you are not looking too hard.

They are all bad, but that doesn't mean they are all equally so.

Part of the problem is that the overton window has shifted to the left, so that Fox is basically alone on the right, and looks more extreme for that reason. There isn't really any major news outlet that strives to be neutral, so the cluster on the left seem "mainstream" because they don't deviate much from each other. (For example, how many use terms like "reproductive rights" when discussing abortion, rather than something more neutral like "access to abortion"?)

 

I am not talking about which words they choose to use, I am referring to the number of lies and false claims they make.  Fox "news" is quantitatively less factual than most of the other networks.  It dosn't seem less factual because it is the only one on that side, it seems less factual because they tell more lies. 

 

Lies are cheap to produce. Some customers wish to hear them. I expect perfect symmetry in lying.

You can expect whatever you like.  The analyses I have seen clearly show that out of the main cable news outlets Fox has more false claims. Some particular shows on Fox are much worse than others, but as a whole, fox is not too concerned with accuracy.

Listening to a little Rage Against the Machine. It's been a long week...

Quote from: Kron3007 on December 18, 2024, 12:19:10 PM

Quote from: marshwiggle on December 18, 2024, 09:55:55 AM

Quote from: Kron3007 on December 18, 2024, 06:38:23 AM

Quote from: dismalist on December 16, 2024, 06:34:47 PMIt's rational for voters to be ignorant. It's expensive to become expert on the issues, and one's vote makes no difference to the out come of the election. Therefore, get cheap information, which means bad information.

From the point of view of suppliers, the customers do not want their pre-conceived notions contradicted, so don't contradict them!

We can lament this or accept this, but my objection to the discussion is the assumption that any of this is asymmetric. The rationally ignorant voter will be found on both the left and the right. Welcome to the club!

If you don't see the difference between fox and the more left leaning cable news outlets you are not looking too hard.

They are all bad, but that doesn't mean they are all equally so.

Part of the problem is that the overton window has shifted to the left, so that Fox is basically alone on the right, and looks more extreme for that reason. There isn't really any major news outlet that strives to be neutral, so the cluster on the left seem "mainstream" because they don't deviate much from each other. (For example, how many use terms like "reproductive rights" when discussing abortion, rather than something more neutral like "access to abortion"?)

 

I am not talking about which words they choose to use, I am referring to the number of lies and false claims they make.  Fox "news" is quantitatively less factual than most of the other networks.  It dosn't seem less factual because it is the only one on that side, it seems less factual because they tell more lies. 

 

Lies are cheap to produce. Some customers wish to hear them. I expect perfect symmetry in lying.

Your student reminds me of one that I and a fellow TA shared some years ago.  I was commenting on how the student didn't "seem very aware of" such and such.  The other TA said, "What you just said--I don't think he's very "aware," period."

Quote from: marshwiggle on December 18, 2024, 09:55:55 AM

Quote from: Kron3007 on December 18, 2024, 06:38:23 AM

Quote from: dismalist on December 16, 2024, 06:34:47 PMIt's rational for voters to be ignorant. It's expensive to become expert on the issues, and one's vote makes no difference to the out come of the election. Therefore, get cheap information, which means bad information.

From the point of view of suppliers, the customers do not want their pre-conceived notions contradicted, so don't contradict them!

We can lament this or accept this, but my objection to the discussion is the assumption that any of this is asymmetric. The rationally ignorant voter will be found on both the left and the right. Welcome to the club!

If you don't see the difference between fox and the more left leaning cable news outlets you are not looking too hard.

They are all bad, but that doesn't mean they are all equally so.

Part of the problem is that the overton window has shifted to the left, so that Fox is basically alone on the right, and looks more extreme for that reason. There isn't really any major news outlet that strives to be neutral, so the cluster on the left seem "mainstream" because they don't deviate much from each other. (For example, how many use terms like "reproductive rights" when discussing abortion, rather than something more neutral like "access to abortion"?)

 

I am not talking about which words they choose to use, I am referring to the number of lies and false claims they make.  Fox "news" is quantitatively less factual than most of the other networks.  It dosn't seem less factual because it is the only one on that side, it seems less factual because they tell more lies. 

 

Hoping to have a little more time to write today. We'll see.

The news media provides a product for consumers. If you like potato chips, you can get them from MSNBC, but if you like flaming hot cheetos, then you can get them from Fox. People should really be eating apples and almonds, but they don't taste as good. There is no easy answer to this in a free society. People can (and should) be mad at Fox for feeding the public a steady diet of crap, but there is obviously an audience for this stuff and if Fox doesn't feed it then someone else will.

(I must be hungry)

Quote from: apl68 on December 18, 2024, 06:24:58 AM

Quote from: EdnaMode on December 17, 2024, 12:43:00 PMGot this one an hour before the final project was due.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dr. Mode,
Hey i know this is the worst time for something like this but i lost cell phone service due to not paying my bill, and I cannot log into canvas because I only have my two factor code that gets sent to text. Do you have any possible pointers I just figured this out 15 minutes ago I forgot my service was getting shut off today.
Stu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I gave him our IT service's help line info and they gave him a workaround. I knew it could be done, but wasn't sure how. I found out that students can use a web-app and their school email to get their 2FA codes instead of their phone. And he got his work turned in before the dropbox closed.

Congratulations on being able to help salvage the student's assignment in the midst of this crisis.  Don't know whether this student's service being shut off was due to carelessness or inability to cover bills, but there are apparently many struggling students who have trouble with the latter.

Thanks. I do try to help students in crisis. This Stu is the sort of student whose name comes up at faculty meetings and everyone rolls their eyes. He means well most of the time, but creates a lot of drama for himself, and some of his excuses for not having work done have become legend. I am more likely to believe he forgot to pay his bill, instead of having money issues, then immediately went into Kermit flail mode instead of thinking of contacting IT. At least he contacted me instead of just not turning it in and not mentioning his issue until he earned a zero. He's been known to wander off at the end of the semester and not show up to finals or not turn in projects, so I probably wouldn't have questioned it and just entered a zero and gone on to grade the next project.

Quote from: dismalist on December 18, 2024, 10:40:09 AM

Quote from: marshwiggle on December 18, 2024, 10:32:45 AM

Quote from: jimbogumbo on December 18, 2024, 10:09:15 AM

Quote from: marshwiggle on December 18, 2024, 09:55:55 AMPart of the problem is that the overton window has shifted to the left, so that Fox is basically alone on the right, and looks more extreme for that reason. There isn't really any major news outlet that strives to be neutral, so the cluster on the left seem "mainstream" because they don't deviate much from each other. (For example, how many use terms like "reproductive rights" when discussing abortion, rather than something more neutral like "access to abortion"?)

 

Alone on the right except for Newsmax, OAN, and ten thousand podcasts.

These are a symptom of the problem, like the high concentration of antibodies around an infection.
 

Nay, nay, they just show that people's tastes differ. We are not all the same. Indeed, with the podcasts and stuff on the internet, one can say that there is "free entry", so we get plenty of variety spanning left and right. Symmetry, symmetry. The same is almost true of cable.

The symmetry is in the number of views (and/or viewers). Each of those "10000 podcasts" will get a fraction of the views of a major network news show (or several), but the cumulative reach will be similar.