Higher ed as a crummy sorting mechanism: CHE article

[Wahoo Redux]

Alright Polly, I guess I've derailed us back to the same old territory.  We've been over all this before.

I will say that you have painted with a pretty big brush there; not all faculty think the way you imply.  You must know the weakness of anecdata.  And I will say that the shoe is kind of on the other foot.  We in the lib arts are being told constantly that our graduates will be baristas (not necessarily true----one can look this up for oneself) and that what is important are the hard skills that, frankly, will only be used in very specific circumstances (and are really not that important in the real world), while what we teach, which are basic skill-sets on all sorts of levels, are denigrated by certain faculty groups.

And we have seen just recently how a number of these lib arts programs actually bring in money.

So okay.  Same old.

[polly_mer]

You asked explicitly and I answered explicitly.

The point of several very popular majors is exactly being ready for a particular profession and getting that job.

That idea of tertiary education doesn't play well with idea that the point of college is to become a well-rounded person who will then go out and learn on the job.

Failure to accept that large numbers of people want the first kind of college education is why the case for the liberal arts education tends to fall flat in many quarters, especially people who are in the lower SES.

[Wahoo Redux]

And I appreciate your explicit answer.  Thank you.

[polly_mer]

Another higher ed example where the comments are the best part: https://slate.com/business/2020/07/debt-nation-student-loans-mimi-nakamura.html

No, the plural of anecdotes isn't quantitative data, but valuable patterns are discernible for those who are looking for good bets for their lives.

[mahagonny]

The problem is really how can higher ed stay in business in the COVID-19 era, isn't it? And the answer is, as usual, any way that works.  And it will involve the tried and true currency for getting yourself up to the higher moral ground, "confronting racial injustice". Higher ed does not like justice or people. It likes winners and class warfare. That's why half of its teaching workforce is sealed off from pension, health insurance, job security, good pay, etc.The whole preoccupation with race is so preening, pretentious. Well, everyone's got to make a living. I wonder how much these experts got paid for their writing?

Explained in comment #6 by George Duckson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxDUNg5SUNc

"Where I work, we have ten hours of required training each year. Every type of oppression is addressed: racial, gender, disabled, orientation, age, religion, transgender, nationality. The whole alphabet. Except economic. Over half the employees are part time, temporary or contingent workers. The college fights vigorously to keep us out of healthcare, retirement and family leave. Class warfare is the only topic you can't discuss."

[mleok]

Failure to accept that large numbers of people want the first kind of college education is why the case for the liberal arts education tends to fall flat in many quarters, especially people who are in the lower SES.

I agree there is a fundamental disconnect between how we often justify the cost (but finanical and the opportunity cost) of attending college (in terms of jobs and financial returns), and how many faculty view the role of higher education.

[polly_mer]

The problem is really how can higher ed stay in business in the COVID-19 era, isn't it? And the answer is, as usual, any way that works.  And it will involve the tried and true currency for getting yourself up to the higher moral ground, "confronting racial injustice".

The rich institutions that aren't in danger of going out of business are doing a bare minimum of lip service to racial injustice during this time.  Their true market doesn't care about results in that area.  However, it's politically/socially savvy to not be conspicuously against any current outcry.

The poor institutions that are likely to go out of business can't afford to do more than pay lip service to racial justice, regardless of their actual thoughts.  The poor kids who most need a solid college education usually come from bad k-12 systems with kith and kin who are more likely to need extra money sent home than an ability to send money to the student.

The colleges that serve those students are likely to know the additional services needed for student success (tutoring, co-labs to augment lectures, help navigating social services, microgrants for emergencies, financial aid through grants instead of loans, low or free tuition), but be unable to afford the level necessary.

The people pushing hard on racial injustice awareness are taking full advantage of the current moment getting coverage, but in practical terms, most of what they are getting are the easy lifts of training and circulating materials.  They aren't actually getting much traction on changing things that would matter because that's money and changing a system in which the winners don't want to lose their advantages.

[mahagonny]

The problem is really how can higher ed stay in business in the COVID-19 era, isn't it? And the answer is, as usual, any way that works.  And it will involve the tried and true currency for getting yourself up to the higher moral ground, "confronting racial injustice".

The rich institutions that aren't in danger of going out of business are doing a bare minimum of lip service to racial injustice during this time.  Their true market doesn't care about results in that area.  However, it's politically/socially savvy to not be conspicuously against any current outcry.

The poor institutions that are likely to go out of business can't afford to do more than pay lip service to racial justice, regardless of their actual thoughts.  The poor kids who most need a solid college education usually come from bad k-12 systems with kith and kin who are more likely to need extra money sent home than an ability to send money to the student.

The colleges that serve those students are likely to know the additional services needed for student success (tutoring, co-labs to augment lectures, help navigating social services, microgrants for emergencies, financial aid through grants instead of loans, low or free tuition), but be unable to afford the level necessary.

The people pushing hard on racial injustice awareness are taking full advantage of the current moment getting coverage, but in practical terms, most of what they are getting are the easy lifts of training and circulating materials.  They aren't actually getting much traction on changing things that would matter because that's money and changing a system in which the winners don't want to lose their advantages.

The social justice cause is important insofar as it will help preserve those advantages. Otherwise something would be getting done about the sub-class of of professional 'temp' educators.

[polly_mer]

Another article regarding the SES class aspects of higher ed: https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/learning-innovation/responding-6-quotes-%E2%80%98-merit-myth%E2%80%99

[kaysixteen]

Obviously the Merit Myth guys are right about their general thesis.  The question would then be, what can we do about it, especially given the enormously unequal public k12 system in this country (not to mention the elite private k12 schools)?

[polly_mer]

The K-12 people have for decades made suggestions on how to fix their schools by expensive mechanisms that are often ignored because they are expensive. 

To take an example from another thread, if the district cannot reliably stock the restrooms and ensure working plumbing, then paying enough to get and keep good teachers in well stocked classrooms with few enough students that the teacher/aides can help each one through differentiated instruction is a non-starter.

The current calls to redirect funding from some police forces to social services including rent support, food availability, and schools is another standard way to address inequities.

[Wahoo Redux]

We are now afraid that China has a military advantage.  There was just an op-ed on NBC.  That's probably where the money is going to go after COVID clears.