How can people still take the Bible or other the religious texts literally?

[Wahoo Redux]

Denying religion in any of the countries where it has been done, has NOT led to the best societies; it has led to grim, opressive ones.

Based on empirical evidence, attempts to stamp out religion have made societies worse, not better.

What empirical evidence are you referring to?

The roots of communism begin in a class struggle against the aristocracy.  Religion is one of the victims of the Lenin's and Stalin's totalitarian reign.  But you must realize that the Russian Orthodox Church was heavily involved with the autocratic, aristocratic government before Communism.  In other words, the church was an oppressor and helped to bring about its own demise.

[ciao_yall]

Based on empirical evidence, attempts to stamp out religion have made societies worse, not better.

Based on historical evidence, attempts to stamp out anything or anyone, such as a religious group, ethnic group, political organization, or other "other," have been a sign that a particular society has deeper problems. Those attempts to stamp out are a symptom of that society's deeper problem.

[marshwiggle]

Based on empirical evidence, attempts to stamp out religion have made societies worse, not better.

Based on historical evidence, attempts to stamp out anything or anyone, such as a religious group, ethnic group, political organization, or other "other," have been a sign that a particular society has deeper problems. Those attempts to stamp out are a symptom of that society's deeper problem.

Excellent point. Since a communist system has much more government control over everything, it gives much more scope for that kind of damage. (As does a theocracy, or any other kind of authoritarian regime.)

[Kron3007]

Based on empirical evidence, attempts to stamp out religion have made societies worse, not better.

Based on historical evidence, attempts to stamp out anything or anyone, such as a religious group, ethnic group, political organization, or other "other," have been a sign that a particular society has deeper problems. Those attempts to stamp out are a symptom of that society's deeper problem.

Excellent point. Since a communist system has much more government control over everything, it gives much more scope for that kind of damage. (As does a theocracy, or any other kind of authoritarian regime.)

You may think you are arguing against my points, but you are actually missing the point and arguing things I was not stating.  Just because communism has never worked does not mean the theoretical principles are not good.  It simply means that humans are not capable of making it work. 

World piece is a good theory, hard to deny, but has also failed to materialize.  This doesn't mean world piece is a bad idea, just that it doesn't work for humans, or at least not now.  Based on your logic, it has always failed so it is a bad idea.

Likewise, I never argued that stamping out religion is a good thing, I was mearly pointing out that interest in a social safety net is not exclusive to religious people. In fact, it seems that less religious, more secular governments are more likely to do this.  Communism was just the extreme example of this where they are stamping out religion, but their founding principles is a social safety net.

[Wahoo Redux]

Based on empirical evidence, attempts to stamp out religion have made societies worse, not better.

Based on historical evidence, attempts to stamp out anything or anyone, such as a religious group, ethnic group, political organization, or other "other," have been a sign that a particular society has deeper problems. Those attempts to stamp out are a symptom of that society's deeper problem.

Excellent point. Since a communist system has much more government control over everything, it gives much more scope for that kind of damage. (As does a theocracy, or any other kind of authoritarian regime.)

You may think you are arguing against my points, but you are actually missing the point and arguing things I was not stating.  Just because communism has never worked does not mean the theoretical principles are not good.  It simply means that humans are not capable of making it work. 

World piece is a good theory, hard to deny, but has also failed to materialize.  This doesn't mean world piece is a bad idea, just that it doesn't work for humans, or at least not now.  Based on your logic, it has always failed so it is a bad idea.

Likewise, I never argued that stamping out religion is a good thing, I was mearly pointing out that interest in a social safety net is not exclusive to religious people. In fact, it seems that less religious, more secular governments are more likely to do this.  Communism was just the extreme example of this where they are stamping out religion, but their founding principles is a social safety net.

You can try to explain how Marshy misreads, but no matter what he just sees what he wants to see.

We've been discussing the modus operandi of literalism/devout faith in the face of reality.  And I think we have an example.

[dismalist]

Based on empirical evidence, attempts to stamp out religion have made societies worse, not better.

Based on historical evidence, attempts to stamp out anything or anyone, such as a religious group, ethnic group, political organization, or other "other," have been a sign that a particular society has deeper problems. Those attempts to stamp out are a symptom of that society's deeper problem.

Reminds me of a line from the movie Harry Met Sally: Well, that symptom has been f!cking my wife! :-(  :-)

[marshwiggle]

Just because communism has never worked does not mean the theoretical principles are not good. It simply means that humans are not capable of making it work.

I don't think this really needs any reply.