40% of undergrads are at CCs: IHE article

[marshwiggle]

3. I disagree with the bolded part, because I don't think all undergraduates need or want a full-service university enrichment experience. University-provided housing, clubs, athletic teams, etc., which in the end come at student expense,  are not the norm in higher education outside the USA. In many countries students who attend four-year universities live with their parents; the only students living in campus dormitories are those who come from remote rural villages. And university sports teams are unheard of; athletics happens in completely separate private leagues. But more relevant to the USA, if at least 40% of college undergraduates are enrolled at CCs, presumably some of them do so because the four-year enrichment experience is simply not affordable or desirable.

From another thread, students were willing to pay 4% more for in-person classes, and 8% more for on-campus amenities. So if the cost of a "bare-bones" experience is less than about 90% of the cost of a "full-service" experience, a large numebr of students will take the latter.

[polly_mer]

Students starting at CCs to save money often get ripped off because the students don't know:

* transfer requirements in majors that have prerequisite sequences that span the entire four years mean you really have to plan and take courses in order.

* taking all gen eds in the first two years may mean another four years after transfer because gen eds are almost none of the requirements for many degrees

* first-year internships are a thing for some majors.  Losing a couple summers of relevant college internship experience likely means a much longer road to being a professional.

* less networking with the relevant aspiring professional peers.  The friendships are formed well before junior year.

The advice to take cheap classes at the CC and transfer is bad for the people who really need college as a networking and intro to professionalism experience.

Unless the specific program has a firm, explicit articulation agreement or the student is really exploring cheaply, starting at a CC and transferring tends to lengthen time to degree and saves very little money through loss of credits that don't transfer as meeting degree requirements.

[jimbogumbo]

Indiana has addressed the transfer confusion issue with programs called TSAPs (Transfer Single Articulation Pathways). If you do the specified 60 hours in such a degree at a CC you can transfer that to any public four year that offers that degree and are guaranteed to be able to graduate with 60 required hours completed.

[spork]

Indiana has addressed the transfer confusion issue with programs called TSAPs (Transfer Single Articulation Pathways). If you do the specified 60 hours in such a degree at a CC you can transfer that to any public four year that offers that degree and are guaranteed to be able to graduate with 60 required hours completed.

We have similar articulation agreements with local CCs even though we are private. My employer doesn't advertise this nearly as well as it should, but sometimes I encounter a former CC student in one of my courses and the person performs as well or better than the students who started here as freshmen. But that's not a high bar.

[jimbogumbo]

Indiana has addressed the transfer confusion issue with programs called TSAPs (Transfer Single Articulation Pathways). If you do the specified 60 hours in such a degree at a CC you can transfer that to any public four year that offers that degree and are guaranteed to be able to graduate with 60 required hours completed.

We have similar articulation agreements with local CCs even though we are private. My employer doesn't advertise this nearly as well as it should, but sometimes I encounter a former CC student in one of my courses and the person performs as well or better than the students who started here as freshmen. But that's not a high bar.

The thing that's cool about these is they are for all our publics. We've always had individual agreements, but this makes it very transparent what will work statewide. For lower income students (particularly those who have dual credit at the CCs as high school students) they have a ton of advantages.

[dr_codex]

Indiana has addressed the transfer confusion issue with programs called TSAPs (Transfer Single Articulation Pathways). If you do the specified 60 hours in such a degree at a CC you can transfer that to any public four year that offers that degree and are guaranteed to be able to graduate with 60 required hours completed.

We have similar articulation agreements with local CCs even though we are private. My employer doesn't advertise this nearly as well as it should, but sometimes I encounter a former CC student in one of my courses and the person performs as well or better than the students who started here as freshmen. But that's not a high bar.

The thing that's cool about these is they are for all our publics. We've always had individual agreements, but this makes it very transparent what will work statewide. For lower income students (particularly those who have dual credit at the CCs as high school students) they have a ton of advantages.

New York has something similar, at least within the 64 campuses of the SUNY system. "Systemness" was the slogan.

There are similar articulation agreements within and with CUNY, and other CC's.

Two things have cropped up during implementation:
1. completing the credits isn't sufficient; students have to complete the degree to guarantee Junior standing.
2. not all cc programs really prepare all students for all upper division university courses. It isn't nice to say, or to hear, but it's true. Scraping C's at a CC may not translate to success at an R1.

As for the need for retraining and continuing ed, there are lots of jobs that aren't really viable lifelong careers.