Doctor's note as "Get out of jail free" card

[the_geneticist]

I had an undergraduate student bring in a note from her physician saying the student was "excused from all lab work through December". 
Uh, no.  That's not how this works. 
We don't excuse students from a required component of their course.
Besides, if the student can't do certain tasks (e.g. typing, writing notes) that would affect the student in ALL of their classes, not just part of one.
I directed the student to the student disabilities center, they told the student that the university would pay someone to assist her with lab tasks.
I wrote a list of tasks in lab for each week, talked with the disabilities folks about logistics, etc.

And the student just decided to skip lab the next 4 weeks.  Those are easy 0s to put in the grade book.
I expect much wailing and sadness when they realize they can't pass the course.

[marshwiggle]

I had an undergraduate student bring in a note from her physician saying the student was "excused from all lab work through December". 
Uh, no.  That's not how this works. 

You'd kind of think (hope!) that a physician would understand the importance of labs, having probably had to do one or two of them themselves......

[Hibush]

I am suspecting the student was hoping the university would make the "mistake" to terminate them so that they can sue.

I very much doubt that you could get a lawyer to take a case like that. That isn't how the ADA works. A disability requires reasonable accommodations. You can't just have a doctors note that says you have an injury and won't be able to fulfill the requirements of a student in a program. If the student's condition made it impossible for them to serve as a TA, it is possible that they might be entitled to some kind of alternate assignment. If their medical condition kept them from performing their duties, they could be entitled to leave. But there's no law that allows a student or employee to just present a note stating they can't do their work anymore and sue if they get terminated.

If they are not making adequate academic progress they can also be terminated.

Perhaps my university's attorneys are more aggressive than research_prof's, because we don't have any pressure to keep scammers on. The most recent grad-student lawsuit in my field was ~30 years ago and the student lost resoundingly.

[Caracal]

I am suspecting the student was hoping the university would make the "mistake" to terminate them so that they can sue.

I very much doubt that you could get a lawyer to take a case like that. That isn't how the ADA works. A disability requires reasonable accommodations. You can't just have a doctors note that says you have an injury and won't be able to fulfill the requirements of a student in a program. If the student's condition made it impossible for them to serve as a TA, it is possible that they might be entitled to some kind of alternate assignment. If their medical condition kept them from performing their duties, they could be entitled to leave. But there's no law that allows a student or employee to just present a note stating they can't do their work anymore and sue if they get terminated.

If they are not making adequate academic progress they can also be terminated.

Perhaps my university's attorneys are more aggressive than research_prof's, because we don't have any pressure to keep scammers on. The most recent grad-student lawsuit in my field was ~30 years ago and the student lost resoundingly.

It seems like if we are really looking for lessons from this story, they would be about advisors communicating  with their grad students. It makes sense that when the student sustains this injury, the advisor would take the TA stuff off their plate and give them a lot more flexibility for the rest of the semester. But after that, wouldn't you want to check in with the advisee, see how they are doing, figure out where things are, how you can help them ease back into their work over the summer? That's just good mentoring.

What if we imagine a scenario in which this student did sustain a seemingly minor injury, but they continued to have difficulties with it. Wouldn't it be important to figure out if there ways in which they could continue to do their work? Maybe, they could keep working in the lab if there are things they could do that didn't involve a lot of standing or sitting, or maybe they need a different chair. If they really can't work, then you would need to figure out what the next steps are. How long could this go on without needing a formal leave-if that's going to effect their immigration status, they really need to know all of that.

In a case where someone is trying to do something sketchy, actual conversations would probably help reveal this, and the advisor starts suspecting something sketchy is going on, they can document and set clear expectations that would provide protection from a lawsuit.

[marshwiggle]

I am suspecting the student was hoping the university would make the "mistake" to terminate them so that they can sue.

I very much doubt that you could get a lawyer to take a case like that. That isn't how the ADA works. A disability requires reasonable accommodations. You can't just have a doctors note that says you have an injury and won't be able to fulfill the requirements of a student in a program. If the student's condition made it impossible for them to serve as a TA, it is possible that they might be entitled to some kind of alternate assignment. If their medical condition kept them from performing their duties, they could be entitled to leave. But there's no law that allows a student or employee to just present a note stating they can't do their work anymore and sue if they get terminated.

If they are not making adequate academic progress they can also be terminated.

Perhaps my university's attorneys are more aggressive than research_prof's, because we don't have any pressure to keep scammers on. The most recent grad-student lawsuit in my field was ~30 years ago and the student lost resoundingly.

It seems like if we are really looking for lessons from this story, they would be about advisors communicating  with their grad students. It makes sense that when the student sustains this injury, the advisor would take the TA stuff off their plate and give them a lot more flexibility for the rest of the semester. But after that, wouldn't you want to check in with the advisee, see how they are doing, figure out where things are, how you can help them ease back into their work over the summer? That's just good mentoring.

Unless the advisor is in some sort of health profession, they're not really going to have any specific expertise in what sort of adaptation or accommodation  is reasonable or necessary. If the student's injury seems apparently minor, (i.e. if the student has returned to classes, etc. and seems to be performing as before), then unless the student indicates otherwise it would make sense for the advisor to assume the next term should be back to normal. If the student's injury appears more  serious, (i.e. the student has NOT returned to previous levels of activity or productivity), then the advisor would expect some sort of medical assessment to be forthcoming.

(If I had some sort of minor health or medical issue, I'd find it a bit awkward and intrusive to have a supervisor keep checking up on it. If I'm operating as normal, I'd like to forget about it. Touchy-feeliness isn't always welcome.)

[Ruralguy]

Touchy-feeliness may not be welcome, but if some sort of disability is apparent, even if it might seem minor or temporary, it may be incumbent on the supervisor to enquire about any needed accommodations. Failure to do so may have repercussions.

Ignorance of the ACA compliance procedures is unlikely to be sufficient excuse.  Ask the campus disability coordinator about this, and if you so not know who that is or the position doesn't exist, just ask HR in general.

[marshwiggle]

Touchy-feeliness may not be welcome, but if some sort of disability is apparent, even if it might seem minor or temporary, it may be incumbent on the supervisor to enquire about any needed accommodations. Failure to do so may have repercussions.

Sure, but that's the job of the accessibility office; the supervisor shouldn't be on the hook for figuring out what is necessary.

Ignorance of the ACA compliance procedures is unlikely to be sufficient excuse.  Ask the campus disability coordinator about this, and if you so not know who that is or the position doesn't exist, just ask HR in general.

That's the point. The ball is in their court.

[Ruralguy]

They have to run things, but of course they can't necessarily *see* or  *hear* what's in front of *you*.  And I do indeed know of at least one case (I think being appealed internally) in which a supervisor was found to be on the hook for something similar.

[the_geneticist]

Just had a student send an email with TWO doctors notes asking to be excused from a pre-lab assignment.
Which was available for 6 days before it was due.
And was due BEFORE the dates on the notes from the health center.

Nope, also not how this works.

[Zeus Bird]

I am suspecting the student was hoping the university would make the "mistake" to terminate them so that they can sue.

I very much doubt that you could get a lawyer to take a case like that. That isn't how the ADA works. A disability requires reasonable accommodations. You can't just have a doctors note that says you have an injury and won't be able to fulfill the requirements of a student in a program. If the student's condition made it impossible for them to serve as a TA, it is possible that they might be entitled to some kind of alternate assignment. If their medical condition kept them from performing their duties, they could be entitled to leave. But there's no law that allows a student or employee to just present a note stating they can't do their work anymore and sue if they get terminated.

Somewhere along the line appeals to the ADA morphed into the idea that "reasonable accommodations" means whatever the student thinks they mean.  Additionally, many students (and parents) are unaware that unlike K-12, universities are not required to alter program requirements to accommodate disabilities, especially in professional majors that have external licensing requirements and specialized accreditation standards.

[Caracal]

I am suspecting the student was hoping the university would make the "mistake" to terminate them so that they can sue.

I very much doubt that you could get a lawyer to take a case like that. That isn't how the ADA works. A disability requires reasonable accommodations. You can't just have a doctors note that says you have an injury and won't be able to fulfill the requirements of a student in a program. If the student's condition made it impossible for them to serve as a TA, it is possible that they might be entitled to some kind of alternate assignment. If their medical condition kept them from performing their duties, they could be entitled to leave. But there's no law that allows a student or employee to just present a note stating they can't do their work anymore and sue if they get terminated.

Somewhere along the line appeals to the ADA morphed into the idea that "reasonable accommodations" means whatever the student thinks they mean.  Additionally, many students (and parents) are unaware that unlike K-12, universities are not required to alter program requirements to accommodate disabilities, especially in professional majors that have external licensing requirements and specialized accreditation standards.

They don't need to change the essential character of a program and can deny an accommodation if they think it would do so. That still means they might be required to alter or waive non-essential program requirements. What you really can't do is just say no without actually considering whether something is essential and/or whether there are accommodations that wouldn't fundamentally alter the nature of the program.

[onehappyunicorn]

I am suspecting the student was hoping the university would make the "mistake" to terminate them so that they can sue.

I very much doubt that you could get a lawyer to take a case like that. That isn't how the ADA works. A disability requires reasonable accommodations. You can't just have a doctors note that says you have an injury and won't be able to fulfill the requirements of a student in a program. If the student's condition made it impossible for them to serve as a TA, it is possible that they might be entitled to some kind of alternate assignment. If their medical condition kept them from performing their duties, they could be entitled to leave. But there's no law that allows a student or employee to just present a note stating they can't do their work anymore and sue if they get terminated.

Somewhere along the line appeals to the ADA morphed into the idea that "reasonable accommodations" means whatever the student thinks they mean.  Additionally, many students (and parents) are unaware that unlike K-12, universities are not required to alter program requirements to accommodate disabilities, especially in professional majors that have external licensing requirements and specialized accreditation standards.

They don't need to change the essential character of a program and can deny an accommodation if they think it would do so. That still means they might be required to alter or waive non-essential program requirements. What you really can't do is just say no without actually considering whether something is essential and/or whether there are accommodations that wouldn't fundamentally alter the nature of the program.

Yes, we have had several accommodation requests over the years, most of which we could grant. A student with a visual impairment was able to take a 3D Design class with a little tweaking, for example. The student who did not want to throw pottery on the wheel and who managed to find a doctor who provided a note saying that she was allergic to water (no joke) we did not accommodate as wheel throwing is in the course description and learning outcomes of the course. The student ended up throwing while wearing gloves...

[Caracal]

I am suspecting the student was hoping the university would make the "mistake" to terminate them so that they can sue.

I very much doubt that you could get a lawyer to take a case like that. That isn't how the ADA works. A disability requires reasonable accommodations. You can't just have a doctors note that says you have an injury and won't be able to fulfill the requirements of a student in a program. If the student's condition made it impossible for them to serve as a TA, it is possible that they might be entitled to some kind of alternate assignment. If their medical condition kept them from performing their duties, they could be entitled to leave. But there's no law that allows a student or employee to just present a note stating they can't do their work anymore and sue if they get terminated.

If they are not making adequate academic progress they can also be terminated.

Perhaps my university's attorneys are more aggressive than research_prof's, because we don't have any pressure to keep scammers on. The most recent grad-student lawsuit in my field was ~30 years ago and the student lost resoundingly.

It seems like if we are really looking for lessons from this story, they would be about advisors communicating  with their grad students. It makes sense that when the student sustains this injury, the advisor would take the TA stuff off their plate and give them a lot more flexibility for the rest of the semester. But after that, wouldn't you want to check in with the advisee, see how they are doing, figure out where things are, how you can help them ease back into their work over the summer? That's just good mentoring.

Unless the advisor is in some sort of health profession, they're not really going to have any specific expertise in what sort of adaptation or accommodation  is reasonable or necessary. If the student's injury seems apparently minor, (i.e. if the student has returned to classes, etc. and seems to be performing as before), then unless the student indicates otherwise it would make sense for the advisor to assume the next term should be back to normal. If the student's injury appears more  serious, (i.e. the student has NOT returned to previous levels of activity or productivity), then the advisor would expect some sort of medical assessment to be forthcoming.

(If I had some sort of minor health or medical issue, I'd find it a bit awkward and intrusive to have a supervisor keep checking up on it. If I'm operating as normal, I'd like to forget about it. Touchy-feeliness isn't always welcome.)

First of all, the advisor is a supervisor, but they are also supposed to be a mentor to the student. They are supposed to be guiding the student through the process of completing a degree. If something is significantly impairing a student from making progress, an advisor can't really do their job without some idea of what is happening. They aren't entitled to detailed medical or personal information, but checking in with an advisee following some kind of disruption doesn't involve asking for that-you're just trying to figure out what they can and can't do and get some sense of a timeline so you can figure out how to proceed.

On the issue of determining accommodations, it is true that a professor isn't a doctor, but the doctor isn't r in charge of the lab either, nor is the disability office. Suppose, the student can't stand for long periods of time. It's easy enough to say they need a chair, but I imagine that in some labs that might not be possible or safe. Maybe there are things you could do fine sitting down, but others that wouldn't work-is it possible that you could switch up duties in some way to make this work? Again, the disabilities office isn't going to have any idea about this and really this needs to be something you discuss with the student to figure out if there's some way to make this work.

[Ruralguy]

The disabilities people don't (or shouldn't) dictate a specific accommodation, pretty much for the reasons you lay out (they may not be practical) . Their role is to simply tell you that someone is either temporarily  or permanently disabled in X way, and perhaps give some guidance in how that can be accommodated. If there is no way to do that, then something like re-assignment can be discussed. I don't think there is supposed to be a one size fits all way of dealing with this. You simply consult with the folks in administration who deal with ADA compliance. If they are good at their jobs, they'll help you, not threaten you. It is understood that in some situations, there might be no way out, at least not in terms of direct accommodation (this is even stated in the ADA documentation on their websites).