funds for 4th year thesis projects?

[Kron3007]

Hello Everyone,

Sorry if this has come up previously, but I am curious to see what is done elsewhere. 

In my university, we have an optional 4th year research thesis in which students get course credit to work with a faculty member to do a small research project.  The students are responsible for finding a supervisor and the overall course has a coordinator who oversees grades, etc. 

The issue I see is that there is no funding to cover any expenses for the student project, or really any incentive for faculty to participate.  We don't really get any teaching credit for doing it, so really it only adds extra expense and work.  I do use these thesis projects to run small side projects that might not get done otherwise, but if I actually calculate the amount of time to train the students to work  in the lab, as well as the time spent working with them, it really dosnt make any sense to do.

I know the fourth year research thesis is common, so I was wondering if other universities provide any funds to cover expenses?   

[onthefringe]

My (giant public flagship R1) provides no funds and extends no teaching credit. And in my lab science field, given the ratio of materials expended in training/experiments that don't work to data generated by even the best undegrads, faculty who have students in their lab are basically paying in grant dollars for the "privilege".

Fringehusband's (small, top 40ish liberal arts college) provides some funds to support the students research in their senior year (but no teaching credit or stipend) and also makes it pretty easy to fund them for the previous summer (which comes with a bit of research money plus stipends for the students and the mentor).

[Puget]

We also don't get either funds or any real teaching credit for undergrad research (though supposedly it counts as a favorable factor for tenure, but I doubt it counts for much). However, we do benefit from undergrad RAs' work in the lab. We require them to have started by junior year if they want to do a senior thesis, and to work lab hours outside of their thesis project.

[Kron3007]

My (giant public flagship R1) provides no funds and extends no teaching credit. And in my lab science field, given the ratio of materials expended in training/experiments that don't work to data generated by even the best undegrads, faculty who have students in their lab are basically paying in grant dollars for the "privilege".

OK, so this is normal then. 

It seems crazy as it is a valuable experience for students, and there is very little reason for faculty to participate, but it seems this is the way of things.

[artalot]

We have a program where juniors and seniors can get research funding and even a small stipend, but the faculty get nothing. It can be useful if students are working on a part of your own research; otherwise there is no reason to do it.

[clean]

There are a lot of places that faculty volunteer to do that are drags on time and for no pay.
If you volunteer to supervise an internship or independent study, there is no support or funding. 

Worse, the provost recently had a crackdown on midterm grades. These are now required for all students. (initially, they were only required for freshman and sophomores).  Those faculty that neglected to provide them for all students, including internships and independent studies, were threatened with unsatisfactory ratings on their teaching evaluations.

Personally, that was my line in the sand. I am sorry, but I am not going to risk a rare, already low pay raise (the penalty for an unsatisfactory evaluation) to volunteer to do more work! 

The university always seems to have things that they want us to do, but then either fail to sufficiently incentivize it or find a way to actually discourage it. 

[doc700]

My private R1 doesn't give us any credit or any support for supplies.  Most of the students need to start the junior year and the university does pay their stipend for the summer.  One perk is that the undergrads can use our central user facilities (like NMRs) at a discounted rate.  We still need to pay for consumables in the lab but at least we get a significantly reduced rate for the user fees which does help.

I've had some fun undergrad projects that have allowed us to pilot new ideas, a few of which became larger efforts in the lab.  Some of my graduate students also really like mentoring and working with undergrads. 

[aprof]

We have a program where juniors and seniors can get research funding and even a small stipend, but the faculty get nothing. It can be useful if students are working on a part of your own research; otherwise there is no reason to do it.

Basically describes our program as well. Faculty get a minor pat on the back when they're reviewed for "mentoring X undergraduate projects".  I've done this a few times when I see a promising student and have something small they can work on.  Most of the time it ends up being a time sink with little payoff, but I have had a couple stay for an MS or PhD.

[bio-nonymous]

The satisfaction we get is in "contributing to the mission of the university" by "exposing undergraduates to research". There are a few small internal undergraduate research grants, but they support only a tiny fraction of the students. For the most part this is a time sink, with some surprises where students actually do something useful for the lab in excess of the time invested. We do get some limited credit for "research mentoring" in our tenure pads. But financially it is up to the PI to support the efforts of the students, except for that tiny fraction of projects that get funded(represents $1000-$1500 maximum for supplies). Worse yet are the honors college thesis students that are supposed to work in the lab for a year or more and write a thesis--lots of work for no money. But, those students usually wind up at least contributing something positive towards manuscripts or grant proposals at least.

[fizzycist]

No money, teaching credit, or increased research productivity here for undergrad research either (middle tier US R1).

But it's a relatively painless form of service/education. We also don't get any extra credit, money, or research visibility for teaching the large enrollment UG class or chairing that important committee.

At least my undergrads sometimes write me thank you notes or visit us years later and it's a nice feeling to play a small role in their growth.

[Kron3007]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

I have long thought that there should be a small amount that goes to the supervisor's lab/group to help offset the costs.  Obviously it would likely not cover the true/full costs for many of us, but there should be something.  I was hoping that perhaps this is common and I could use that to help support the pitch, but it seems it is not. 

Anyway, I will likely continue to do them for the students' sake.  I have also used this to recruit grad students with good success, kind of like a test drive.  However, I do think even a token amount would increase faculty engagement.

[poiuy]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

I have long thought that there should be a small amount that goes to the supervisor's lab/group to help offset the costs.  Obviously it would likely not cover the true/full costs for many of us, but there should be something.  I was hoping that perhaps this is common and I could use that to help support the pitch, but it seems it is not. 

Anyway, I will likely continue to do them for the students' sake.  I have also used this to recruit grad students with good success, kind of like a test drive.  However, I do think even a token amount would increase faculty engagement.

I am late to this thread, but I am at a regional R2 that is increasingly minority-serving. We have quite an active set of systems to encourage undergraduate research including some dedicated programs (e.g. McNair type of scholarships) and undergraduate research stipends for one or two semesters, and Honors projects and theses. These are very helpful for students' educational development.

Faculty get some student labor, some acknowledgement of their mentorship in annual and T and P reviews. Unfortunately there is no financial reward and no accounting of this labor in the teaching or service loads. It would be great if these could happen and at least a small token amount given to faculty for their professional development. 

But we are enduring multiple rounds of budget cuts because of declining enrolments (flagship getting fatter) so we are not likely to get anything concrete for our efforts.