Tenure package

[Minervabird]

As others said, you have to look to your local setting for clarity on what counts, which journals/presses/grants/etc. are most valuable, and what sort of quantity you need. I'd also advise you to hit the market just in case. Beyond that, your packet sounds impressive so you'll probably be alright. Good luck!

Sun_Worshiper: Thank you for your advice. Based on your advice and my interpretation of my situation in my current position, I did hit the market :). Although the job market wasn't great like before due to current political climate and many universities paused the faculty search, I think I did well :). Overall, I applied for 8 opening positions, 3 of them did not move forward and stopped the search in the initial stage.  Among the remaining 5, I got 4 campus interviews but one of them was paused by Dean due to budgetary considerations. Anyway so far 2 turned into an offer. I am negotiating two offers with dept chairs. Both schools are STRONGER than my current institutions (higher ranking, etc.) and both positions are in the engineering dept where I belong :). Anyhow you understand your self worth when you hit the market, it is AMAZING how these two schools are competing to win me over :-).

Any recommendation as to how to negotiate effectively!? It seems both chairs picked my current salary online . How to negotiate and get a better salary offer? I have at least  $1.3 M funded projects  which will be transferred to my new school.  From personal side, if we move we have to sell our house and our current mortgage rate is 2.25% unless I get a really good salary offer so that we can keep it  (I know we lose a lot of money, but both schools look promising to me).

Please share with me your brilliant advice. Much appreciated.

The most effective negotiations are based on the mutual gain of both parties.

Additional lab space or course releases may allow you to better focus on your research, which benefits the institution. When negotiating salary or relocation assistance, which may not as directly relate to teaching or scholarship, be sure to frame your ask in terms of your potential contributions to the department. What unique perspective, skills, insights, or expertise do you bring? You are essentially going to justify your higher compensation by highlighting why the department would benefit from recruiting you.

If you can't get more salary, get perks...reduced teaching load, higher start up costs, more moving expenses, etc. One off expenses may be easier for them to swallow. Clarify what your priorities are, and ask for the top 3-5 things. Some insitutions used to offer mortgage assistance as part of the hiring package. Can you get help with relocation...for instance help in looking for a new house, etc?

[Vid]

Thank you Minervabird. I am going to get my offer today but when I discussed it with the Chair earlier this week he said they will provide up to $10 K for moving expenses. I really like that school. Its ranking is much higher than my current institution and I liked the faculty and the environment. The position was actually open ranked and I am surprised they picked me!!:). Apparently they interviewed 2 full professors!!!

I have another campus interview coming up too. It is even better ranking university but in non-engineering dept. (not sure about my interest in this position but the Search Committee seems very interested in my application!).


I have two concerns: 1) I am going to submit my tenure package this year. In my current position I am mostly on research appointments and I don't have much teaching appointments (I teach a grad course every other year). So to go up in the new university, they need to see undergraduate teaching records and I donot have it. Do you guys know how to negotiate this? the Chair said you will go up this year if you join but i need to have some strong justification if getting tenure in the next university falls off the crack.  Any advice?

2) As I mentioned in my previous email, my current mortgage interest rate is 2.25% and if I sell my house and buy a new house in the new place, the mortgage interest will be higher. Can I justify this when I negotiate my salary with the chair? Any suggestions as to how to negotiate this?

I have learned a lot on this platform and now this newbie needs help to make a good decision. Thank you, guys.

[Ruralguy]

I am not sure what exactly your concern is on the first point here. If you mean they want you to come up soon at new place, but need you to have teaching experience you don't have, then you need to negotiate more time so that you don't fail on teaching.

On the second point, I don't think this is their concern. But a cheaper place and try to put on the shortest term you can afford (payments will be higher, but interest paid on life of loan will be much lower). Maybe think of a more job related reason you are entitled to more $ ?

[Sea_Ice]

If the new U expects UG teaching and you don't have any, that's a major issue!!  Especially if you're going to be up for tenure your first year at the new U. - maybe I misunderstood what you wrote?

If that is correct, it's a major red flag unless everyone (Chair, Dean, etc. all the way to the last person who has any say in a tenure case) agrees - in writing!! - that you'll be an exception to that old rule/expectation.

On a side note - have you ever taught UGs?  If no, and your future at new U will include a bunch of it, you've got some learning to do!

[Minervabird]

I am not sure what exactly your concern is on the first point here. If you mean they want you to come up soon at new place, but need you to have teaching experience you don't have, then you need to negotiate more time so that you don't fail on teaching.

On the second point, I don't think this is their concern. But a cheaper place and try to put on the shortest term you can afford (payments will be higher, but interest paid on life of loan will be much lower). Maybe think of a more job related reason you are entitled to more $ ?

Agree with both here. Your mortgage rate does not qualify as mutual gain for both parties when entering negotiations.  Higher salaries result from specific skills sets they don't have, administrative experience they need, that sort of thing. What are you bringing to the table to justify more money?

And, if you have zero UG teaching experience, and that is a big part of expectations for tenure, you better accept that you need to up skill quickly, or go somewhere that fits your experience better. Teaching UG, as Sea_Ice indicated, takes some effort to learn to do effectively.

[Kron3007]

Congrats!  Always good to hear this kind of news.

Regarding your points, I agree about the mortgage.  It isn't their concern, but is a valid item for you.  I think you simply need to work out what offer would make it worth moving for based on all the factors, and push for that.  You are in a good position in that you don't "need" the job, so you can stick to your guns on the salary and walk if they won't meet it.

For the teaching/tenure issue, that is more of a concern and you either need more time to get the experience or for that to be waived for your assessment.  In reality, they knew your teaching experience before making the offer so this should not come as a surprise to them.

[Vid]

Thank you all. I have UG teaching experience, not in my current position but in my previous position. In my previous position I was not a TT faculty this is why it doesnt count.

Yes, it is a BIG decision and I am hoping to come up with a good calculation considering all factors.

Please let me know if you have other suggested factors in negotiation. Again I have NSF funded projects, with a new one that just funded in Jan. 2025 before the political transition. These may help with the negotiation, I hope :)

Thank you, folks.

[Vid]

All,

My move didn't happen. I got two offers but both were paused by the Deans and the departments couldn't offer me the position.  one Univ said we may have hope in June to offer you the position but I amnot sure if it will happen with the current funding circumstances. I guess I have to apply next year.

I will go up for tenure this year. Do you guys think I 'll have a chance next year? I understand when we are in TT we have a better chance of finding a new position. with my current appointment (majority on Research and grad teaching with no undergrad teaching) I am not sure if it would be working. I am disappointed.

Thank you, guys.

Thank you all. I have UG teaching experience, not in my current position but in my previous position. In my previous position I was not a TT faculty this is why it doesnt count.

Yes, it is a BIG decision and I am hoping to come up with a good calculation considering all factors.

Please let me know if you have other suggested factors in negotiation. Again I have NSF funded projects, with a new one that just funded in Jan. 2025 before the political transition. These may help with the negotiation, I hope :)

Thank you, folks.

[spork]

Next year, AFTDJ. Two offers this time around means that you are highly competitive whether you are tenured already or not.

[pgher]

Next year, AFTDJ. Two offers this time around means that you are highly competitive whether you are tenured already or not.

I second this. One thing to be prepared for is the possibility of moving without tenure. I am in the process of recruiting someone who is far along as an assistant professor and will be coming here as an untenured associate. They need to meet the standards here, as evaluated by an orderly process. I don't really have any doubts about their potential, but need to see that they can adjust to a different institution.

[Vid]

Thank you, Spork. I will try next year. Also, do you think I can negotiate with my current employer about improving my position (my salary is low, that is one of the main reasons I want to move). I do not have an offer letter in hand. Just phone messages with the Department Chair since  after the text messages the position was paused by the Dean. Thanks again.

Next year, AFTDJ. Two offers this time around means that you are highly competitive whether you are tenured already or not.

[Vid]

pgher: I understand but I am already in a strong R1 University and I have a good numbers of funded projects.

Thank you.

Next year, AFTDJ. Two offers this time around means that you are highly competitive whether you are tenured already or not.

I second this. One thing to be prepared for is the possibility of moving without tenure. I am in the process of recruiting someone who is far along as an assistant professor and will be coming here as an untenured associate. They need to meet the standards here, as evaluated by an orderly process. I don't really have any doubts about their potential, but need to see that they can adjust to a different institution.