question for people who read ancient Greek

[traductio]

I'm hoping someone out in Fora-land can help me with what is, in fact, a really specific question about Plato's vocabulary in the Cratylus.

Long story short -- I'm a media scholar with an abiding interest in the Classics, but without any training in Greek or Latin. I'm working on a paper that transposes Plato's discussion of words and writing in the Phaedrus, Cratylus, and Parmenides into contemporary debates about media theory. (I know I'm guilty of anachronistic thinking -- that's part of the exercise.)

Near the end of the dialogue, Socrates asks Cratylus:

Εἰ οὖν ἔστι μὲν ὅτι μάλιστα διʼ ὀνομάτων τὰ πράγ-‎
ματα μανθάνειν, ἔστι δὲ καὶ διʼ αὐτῶν, ποτέρα ἂν εἴη καλ-‎
λίων καὶ σαφεστέρα ἡ μάθησις;

(Cratylus, 439, as reproduced in E. A. Duke, W. F. Hicken, W. S. M. Nicoll, D. B. Robinson, and J. C. G. Strachan (eds), Oxford Classical Texts: Platonis Opera, Vol. 1: Tetralogiae I–II)

If I'm not mistaken, that line corresponds to this one in Benjamin Jowett's late-19th century translation:

Let us suppose that to any extent you please you can learn things through the medium of names, and suppose also that you can learn them from the things themselves—which is likely to be the nobler and clearer way;

The phrase I'm interested in (in English) is "through the medium of" (which in more contemporary translations is rendered simply as "through"). What are Plato's original words? And in what way do those words evoke mediation?

(I don't read Greek at all -- I'm guessing I've found the write line based on the Stephanus numbering. Speaking of which, should the citation have an 'a' after it, as it comes right before 439b?)

[research_prof]

My Ancient Greek is not great, but I guess "thought the medium of" refers to the word " διʼ ".

My understanding of the context of the phrase is that one has two options; to learn things based on their names (e.g., the way things look/or the way other call/describe them--maybe a bit superficially in this context) or learn things based on their context (e.g., by experiencing them or looking a bit deeper). The latter way seems to be a better way to learn essentially.

Again my Ancient Greek is not very good, so I might be wrong.

[filologos]

Yes, "through the medium of" is a bit of an overtranslation of the preposition διά + gen., which means, very roughly, "through." You could also translate it as "by means of X" or "through using X." I'd be wary of using this extremely common preposition as a peg on which to hang some argument about "mediation" in a 21st-century sense. You could try looking up διά in LSJ, but if you don't know any Greek it might not be very helpful.

[traductio]

Yes, "through the medium of" is a bit of an overtranslation of the preposition διά + gen., which means, very roughly, "through." You could also translate it as "by means of X" or "through using X." I'd be wary of using this extremely common preposition as a peg on which to hang some argument about "mediation" in a 21st-century sense. You could try looking up διά in LSJ, but if you don't know any Greek it might not be very helpful.

Thanks, filologos and research_prof. This is really helpful.

Fortunately, the type of claim I want to make doesn't hinge on this quotation, although it would have been sweet if the quotation had fit so neatly. I'm not making an argument about Plato so much as asking how reading the Cratylus (among other dialogues) might prompt interesting questions in media studies. The argument Socrates makes in the Cratylus is very much about what we'd now describe as mediation. Of course, I'm imposing a 21st century concept on a text that doesn't support it as such, but in so doing, I'm able to ask questions that I think are interesting but ignored in my field. At any rate, it's a much weaker claim, but it serves my purposes well.

As for the Stephanus numbering, any advice on whether it should be "439" or "439a"? I'm picky when it comes to citing things correctly.

[Parasaurolophus]

I'm reasonably sure it's 439a, and not just 439. 439 would refer to a through (!) e or whatever that section ends on.

That's how it works with Kant, Schopenhauer, and company, anyway. But I can phone a friend, if you'd like official assurance!

[filologos]

Yes, the correct citation is 439a. Perseus can be helpful for this sort of thing: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:abo:tlg,0059,005:439a.