Collaborator

[Vid]

Folks,

I really need your honest advice here.

I have a collaborator (Norman) who is working with me for a while. Recently we got a grant from NSF that we are hoping to put the outcomes into a large-scale proposal for NSF (we got awesome results so far). Last week, Norman contacted one of my colleagues and asked him if he knows anyone who can do modeling research so that Norman can add him/her to his large scale proposal for NSF (apparently will be submitting in December). My colleague forwarded Norman' email to me and said "would you like me to introduce you to Norman?, he is looking for a modeling expert like you!''. I told him I know Norman he is my Co-PI on an NSF project with almost the same topics/idea.....anyway... my concern is not that Norman didn't include me in his proposal, rather I am concerned about the great results  we got so far in our collaborative NSF project (mostly done by my student and myself) and Norman is going to propose it to NSF without involving me (I am the lead PI)!

How do you guys approach this?

Thank you.

[Ruralguy]

I think you need to have a talk with Norman. Figure out what he wants to do with you and what he doesn't.

[Vid]

Ruralguy. I asked my colleague if he is okay with me contacting Norman about this. He said he is going to meet with Norman and understand the details of the idea and ask Norman to include me (well...Norman already knows me very well...!!) .  Anyway, I am trying to make my decision whether to include Norman in my large scale NSF proposal or not?!

You are always so kind and helpful, Ruralguy, and thank you.

[research_prof]

Lol... I have been burned this way by "collaborators". Burned to the point that a "collaborator" took text and figures directly from an NSF grant submission (which was rejected) and published it as a paper with the "collaborator" being the only author. How pathetic... When I brought it up, the "collaborator" said: "oh, I created this figure for the proposal, so it is my right to publish it independently". This "collaborator"  found his first and only PhD student through me (I told the student "go work with this guy"), but still he was so ungrateful.

People are crazy and do whatever crazy sh*t they may come up with. It is very important to find trusted collaborators.

[Ruralguy]

Vid,

You're an independent person and have every right to contact Norman yourself especially since you already know him. So ask him. If his collaboration doesn't get you much, I say dump him. He sounds untrustworthy. If you think you need him for now, talk to him and figure out whether its worth keeping him and if he even wants you to.

[Vid]

I am sorry research_prof you had to go thru this. It's hard to find trusted collaborators!

Ruralguy: Yes, I will def exclude Norman from my large-scale proposal, but I have to be strategic and finish our current NSF project with him (Norman has to do his portion!)! For me honesty is a very important factor and I know my self-worth and deservability! 

[Ruralguy]

I don't know as though you *have to* exclude him, but you should find out what he's up to and figure out whether he's trustworthy (probably not).

[research_prof]

I am sorry research_prof you had to go thru this. It's hard to find trusted collaborators!

Ruralguy: Yes, I will def exclude Norman from my large-scale proposal, but I have to be strategic and finish our current NSF project with him (Norman has to do his portion!)! For me honesty is a very important factor and I know my self-worth and deservability!

Vid, my suggestion is to start documenting everything (who did what exactly for the grant). Also, keep notes every time that you meet with Norman and then send your notes over email to him and ask him to confirm if they are accurate (in a nice and polite way). This way, if Norman publishes something without your permission or submits a grant proposal with knowledge that you produced, you have a way to push back. Papers can be retracted for reasons like that. Norman might still be able to get a grant based on data you have produced, however, if you let the PD know and you have evidence, Norman will be in a very difficult position not only for this grant, but also for future grants.

[Vid]

 Yes, I will be documenting everything and apparently this is Norman' second proposal based on our current NSF research funding!

How fast Norman is in submitting this idea to NSF!  Really makes me sick!

Thank you, folks.

[Cheerful]

My colleague forwarded Norman' email to me and said "would you like me to introduce you to Norman?, he is looking for a modeling expert like you!''. I told him I know Norman he is my Co-PI on an NSF project with almost the same topics/idea...

This person who emailed you did you a big favor (even if they did not realize it or intended as such).  Without this email would you have known what Norman was doing?  Information is power. 

Try to be on good terms with all people while always (often quietly) looking out for your own best interests.  Don't focus on Norman or your anger with him, but rather what is best for you going forward.  Good luck.

[Ruralguy]

Yes, think of how to do your own well defined work with different collaborators.

[Durchlässigkeitsbeiwert]

collaborator
b: someone who assists an enemy
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/collaborator

[research_prof]

Yes, I will be documenting everything and apparently this is Norman' second proposal based on our current NSF research funding!

How fast Norman is in submitting this idea to NSF!  Really makes me sick!

Thank you, folks.

If that's the case, it might be a good idea to let the NSF PD that is handling Norman's proposals know (in private and if you are aware of who the PD is) about what this guy is doing.

[Vid]

research_prof: I am not sure what NSF program Norman has submitted his first proposal. But I may ask my colleague to figure out the second one!

Cheerful: 100%. You nailed it. I love your comments and thank you.

Durchlässigkeitsbeiwert: thank you, I didnot know collaborator has two diff meanings. Very interesting.


Thank you, all for being so helpful in this uncertain time.