Time Tracking Application for Research

[Kron3007]

Maybe the greater concern is what is referred to earlier, how is it that a student

a) sends out something that's not in good enough shape to be published, and

b) when it's rejected, doesn't have help from their advisor to get it back out the door?

I recall very clearly one prof I worked for calling the joint author(s) into their office as soon as an R/R or rejection hit their email box and starting them each on workshopping the thing to get it back out ASAP.

This was in STEM (one of the eye-opening times when I realized "Some Disciplines Are Different From Yours": SDADFY, maybe?) and they had it turned around in a week.

In other words, the modeling of time frames came from the prof. NO TIME was wasted in getting them to turn the thing around.

If you're not helping them get it back out quickly, you're not modeling your own time expectations: no wonder they're lollygagging, they don't know what to do when.

People learn by example.

M.

Yeah, you need to figure out what expectations are reasonable, clearly communicate them and then have clear discussions with your students when they aren't meeting those expectations.

I get the impression from these posts that you are getting stuck in between. Some of your expectations are reasonable, others may not be. That's making it hard to communicate clearly to students and that results in you not having conversations with students when their work isn't acceptable.

SDADFY applies here, but when I submitted things to my advisor, he was always very clear about whether he needed to see another draft before I sent it off. It never felt like a failure on my part. There was just a distinction between, "go ahead and fix these things and consider these suggestions and then its good to go" and "I don't think this is quite there yet, rework this and then I'd like to see another draft." Of course things might still get rejected or get an RandR for all kinds of reasons, but it does seem like you can't put it all on the student if you think the work isn't good enough.

That said, I do think your proposal is a step in the right direction in terms of clear communication. My suggestion would be to make sure that the conversation isn't just you delivering the ultimatum and ushering the student out. If it was me, I would want to draw out the student about some of the problems they have been having. If the student thinks everything has been going great, that's a different conversation then the one you would want to have if they know they are struggling. After you lay out your expectations, you should also make sure you and the student come up with a plan for how this is going to happen. I would think that would involve discussing the rejected papers and how they can get them in shape to be accepted, conferences they are considering applying for, etc. This is much more likely to go well if the student comes away thinking you are on their side and want them to succeed.

I second the need for clear goals and expectations.

One of my previous advisors had us doing many, many, many, different projects (as you can tell, probably too many).  We would ask them what the top priorities were, and they would simply say they are all top priority.  In the end, nothing really went well because we are spread too thin.  It would have been much more effective for them to say that Job 1 is the top priority, and make a descending list.  At least then something would have gone to completion...

Not saying you are doing this, just trying to highlight the importance of clear direction and leadership. 

[mamselle]

Yes, another case of carrots being mighty appetizing...

I forgot to mention that in the case I described, one of the spurs to finishing and returning the R/R was that the lab in a school across town stood in good stead to scoop them and our PI wasn't having that...especially not from a former student of his whom he'd referred to the position...

M.

[Puget]

Kerprof are you doing individual development plans (IDPs) with your students every year and revisiting them periodically throughout the year? IF not, you should be, and that will start to address the mentoring issues you are having. If your department doesn't have a template to use, there are many good ones online.

It also sounds like you need some mentorship on mentoring in general - do you have a senior mentor in the department you can talk to about these issues?