1/3 of Community College Students Have Disappeared

[lightning]

My community college does not have an add/drop week at the start of the semester. I don't know why, but it does mean that students cannot drop a class in the first week even when they don't like the course. It's as if the admin want to make it more likely the students won't succeed.

Sometimes I send out the syllabus and even make the course available to students in the weeks before the course starts so they can drop and switch to a different course if mine looks like a bad fit for them. That's partly selfish, since I would prefer to have fewer students, but I figure it might also help the students.

The students who look at the syllabus before the class begins, are the same students who would succeed in your class anyway. It's the students that you wish to self-select out of your course by reading your syllabus before class begins, are the same ones that won't read your syllabus (before the semester or even during the semester) who will stick around and make you look bad.


On a related note, I can't speak for higher ed as a whole, but my uni lowered its admissions standards a few years ago, and the marginally academic students who otherwise would only be able to attend a CC are now at my uni (if they have a means to pay for it). So, we are now getting and having to teach a lot of academically un-prepared & un-motivated students whose parents have $.

[marshwiggle]

On a related note, I can't speak for higher ed as a whole, but my uni lowered its admissions standards a few years ago, and the marginally academic students who otherwise would only be able to attend a CC are now at my uni (if they have a means to pay for it). So, we are now getting and having to teach a lot of academically un-prepared & un-motivated students whose parents have $.

My understanding is that Carleton University in Ottawa sometime back stopped having any incoming grade cutoff, so that all kinds of students would have "a chance" They apparently changed back after a very short time, because it just made them "Last Chance U." but without any payoff.

The number of high school graduates whose poor grades don't reflect their innate brilliance seems to be vastly overrated.

[downer]

My community college does not have an add/drop week at the start of the semester. I don't know why, but it does mean that students cannot drop a class in the first week even when they don't like the course. It's as if the admin want to make it more likely the students won't succeed.

Sometimes I send out the syllabus and even make the course available to students in the weeks before the course starts so they can drop and switch to a different course if mine looks like a bad fit for them. That's partly selfish, since I would prefer to have fewer students, but I figure it might also help the students.

The students who look at the syllabus before the class begins, are the same students who would succeed in your class anyway. It's the students that you wish to self-select out of your course by reading your syllabus before class begins, are the same ones that won't read your syllabus (before the semester or even during the semester) who will stick around and make you look bad.

That's certainly a concern in a sense, though no one seems to care much about my passing and failing rates. No one has ever mentioned the issue to me. I keep on getting employed.

I have succeeded in scaring some students off with the emails. Of course, I don't know which ones.

[Aster]

I have extensive experience in the 2-year community college system. And I agree with most of what this article says.

[Anselm]

I have no doubt this is true simply based on our empty parking lot spaces.  There was a time when we got emails with enrollment data, showing us the percent increase from previous years.   They no longer send out those emails.  Several great people have been let go due to low enrollment.  A few others have left due to abysmally low pay, lower than what I was given 15 years ago.

[Mobius]

I'd like to ask how hard the first student mentioned in the article actually tried? When did he stop attending class?

[marshwiggle]

An interesting quote from the article:

"You're not helping students see a path," said Jenkins. "You're not providing a well-structured, intentionally designed and delivered program that leads to family-sustaining wages. You're still in the main being a course supermarket."

Jobs are, in fact, a lot of what people are hoping this leads to, and when it doesn't they see no reason to invest in it.

[Wahoo Redux]

An interesting quote from the article:

"You're not helping students see a path," said Jenkins. "You're not providing a well-structured, intentionally designed and delivered program that leads to family-sustaining wages. You're still in the main being a course supermarket."

Jobs are, in fact, a lot of what people are hoping this leads to, and when it doesn't they see no reason to invest in it.

In part, colleges have done this to themselves.  Our institutions constantly market the employability of degree earners----and unless things have changed, the college degree is still the best way to a middle class income----but when people begin to doubt the ROI for a degree, then we are in trouble.  It's really kind of an interesting phenomenon.  College hive brains thought they'd figured out how to sell their services and the price continued to jack up as more and more mechanisms were added to the college machine and salaries scrambled to keep up with COL...and then all the sudden the price point was breeched and a good share of the market, with its eggs primarily in one basket, comes tumbling down. 

[marshwiggle]

An interesting quote from the article:

"You're not helping students see a path," said Jenkins. "You're not providing a well-structured, intentionally designed and delivered program that leads to family-sustaining wages. You're still in the main being a course supermarket."

Jobs are, in fact, a lot of what people are hoping this leads to, and when it doesn't they see no reason to invest in it.

In part, colleges have done this to themselves.  Our institutions constantly market the employability of degree earners----and unless things have changed, the college degree is still the best way to a middle class income----but when people begin to doubt the ROI for a degree, then we are in trouble. 

So do you think that if they hadn't stressed the employability of degree earners that the enrollment would have been higher than it has been? If so, explain. Otherwise, if it's been "artificially" elevated due to that, and it's now returning to realistic levels, then many of the places in financial difficulty now would have long ago had to close already. 

[Mobius]

An interesting quote from the article:

"You're not helping students see a path," said Jenkins. "You're not providing a well-structured, intentionally designed and delivered program that leads to family-sustaining wages. You're still in the main being a course supermarket."

Jobs are, in fact, a lot of what people are hoping this leads to, and when it doesn't they see no reason to invest in it.

Isn't some of this a case of providing students info, but they don't know what to do with it? Advising is theoretically easier than ever with degree audits and program requirements that are easily accessible.

CCs are in trouble for a myriad of reasons, but some it is due to students not wanting/able to attend. High schools will drag students across the finish line. You only need Ds to graduate, and the bar is low. The bar is now a bit higher and you're not going to have a team driving you across the line in the training cart while you wave to your support group.