Students Pursuing Minimally Relevant Topics

[Parasaurolophus]

It also shocks students when I tell them that I received my PhD without getting an Masters degree first. Or that I worked, for salary, at a biotechnology firm doing lab research before going to grad school (so with only a BS). Many of my students seem convinced that there are NO jobs in science for those with just a bachelor's degree.

Very few programs in my field in Canada accept students into PhD programs without a masters. I think there are two. What's more common is for outstanding masters students to be promoted to the PhD program before they've finished their masters.

Is the PHD program completely separate from the masters in terms of content? In my humanities field, usually a terminal masters just means that you don't write the dissertation, and instead write a much shorter masters thesis.

Not usually, no. The programs exist separately (as in, they have separate requirements and admit independently of one another), but tend to share coursework. Here, an UG honours degree involves significantly more in-subject coursework than in the US (60+ credits seems like the usual number. It was 66 at my UG institution.). Then the expected progression is a master's degree (typically through two years of coursework, but at several programs it's one plus a thesis). Then you can do your PhD, with a couple more years of coursework and all of the additional requirements (nominally four years, typically 6).

[lightning]

Maybe this is is just me talking, but if the credential that I just earned helps get me the job that I want and I need that job to have the life that I want, then I'm going to do that job, instead of going back for more school.

If I'm not interested in working a job, and I can live the life that I want without that job, well, then sure, I'll go back to school and get more credentials. Why not??? Whenever I retire, I have every intention of attending college as the weird old guy who knows too much and can't keep their mouth shut, in order to live the "life of the mind."

[arcturus]

[...]
If I'm not interested in working a job, and I can live the life that I want without that job, well, then sure, I'll go back to school and get more credentials. Why not??? Whenever I retire, I have every intention of attending college as the weird old guy who knows too much and can't keep their mouth shut, in order to live the "life of the mind."

Just don't go up to the young assistant professor that is teaching your class to say "You remind me so much of my [son][daughter]." and proceed to give them personal gifts. That is creepy (just say'n).

To address the OPs concerns: my institution is trying to reap the benefits (cash$$$$$$) of the current generation's desire for more credentials. We have created a credential that can go on a transcript which is something between a minor and a major in terms of credit hours. We are also (as an institution) pushing for 4+1 (paying) masters programs, where students stay one extra year to get an MA or MS with their Bachelor's degree. There is definitely a tilt toward "credentials" rather than "life of the mind".

[Liquidambar]

I've noticed my Chinese international students are particularly drawn to the fancy-but-useless programs though, and can't be talked out of them. Recently one of these students set me straight that they are not naive in choosing these programs-- a brand-name US degree will get them ahead in China, and it doesn't really matter what it is in, so long as it has an Ivy's name on it. Since they are generally from wealthy families, the family sees these programs as a good investment. So it is actually a perfectly rational choice to buy prestige. I still think the programs are predatory, but they clearly did their market analysis and are providing a product there is demand for.

Thanks for sharing that.  I'd wondered about the decision-making of my Chinese international students, many of whom apply only to fancy places for graduate study.

[lightning]

[...]
If I'm not interested in working a job, and I can live the life that I want without that job, well, then sure, I'll go back to school and get more credentials. Why not??? Whenever I retire, I have every intention of attending college as the weird old guy who knows too much and can't keep their mouth shut, in order to live the "life of the mind."

Just don't go up to the young assistant professor that is teaching your class to say "You remind me so much of my [son][daughter]." and proceed to give them personal gifts. That is creepy (just say'n).

<SNIP>

It won't happen. There won't be any assistant professors left, by the time I retire. The adjunct who will be teaching me instead of an assistant professor, however, would appreciate a gift card, like a gas card or a grocery card. (just say'n)

[Puget]

Maybe this is is just me talking, but if the credential that I just earned helps get me the job that I want and I need that job to have the life that I want, then I'm going to do that job, instead of going back for more school.

If I'm not interested in working a job, and I can live the life that I want without that job, well, then sure, I'll go back to school and get more credentials. Why not??? Whenever I retire, I have every intention of attending college as the weird old guy who knows too much and can't keep their mouth shut, in order to live the "life of the mind."

There are some retirement places that are co-located with college campuses where the retirees can audit classes for free and use all the college facilities, which I think is a quite nice arrangement.

[Caracal]

It also shocks students when I tell them that I received my PhD without getting an Masters degree first. Or that I worked, for salary, at a biotechnology firm doing lab research before going to grad school (so with only a BS). Many of my students seem convinced that there are NO jobs in science for those with just a bachelor's degree.

Very few programs in my field in Canada accept students into PhD programs without a masters. I think there are two. What's more common is for outstanding masters students to be promoted to the PhD program before they've finished their masters.

Is the PHD program completely separate from the masters in terms of content? In my humanities field, usually a terminal masters just means that you don't write the dissertation, and instead write a much shorter masters thesis.

I think US *Humanities are kind of unique this way. It's reflected in the fact that PhD completion times can be 6 or 7 years in the US (without a Master's), versus 2 or 3 years most other places (with a Master's). I'm not sure what the history is behind it.


(*I haven't heard of it in STEM in the US.)

I think it's that the phd was the original degree and masters programs developed later and on very different tracks. Masters degrees were for people who wanted to teach at two year schools, and then later they started to draw in some people in secondary education. Eventually some masters programs became specialized in things like public history and were for people who wanted to get jobs outside of academia. A terminal masters was something you got if you didn't want a phd, not as a stepping stone to it.

[apl68]

Many of my students seem convinced that there are NO jobs in science for those with just a bachelor's degree.

That's strange.  I had thought that the conventional wisdom was that the STEM fields were the only ones where there were any jobs.

[MarathonRunner]

It also shocks students when I tell them that I received my PhD without getting an Masters degree first. Or that I worked, for salary, at a biotechnology firm doing lab research before going to grad school (so with only a BS). Many of my students seem convinced that there are NO jobs in science for those with just a bachelor's degree.

Very few programs in my field in Canada accept students into PhD programs without a masters. I think there are two. What's more common is for outstanding masters students to be promoted to the PhD program before they've finished their masters.

Is the PHD program completely separate from the masters in terms of content? In my humanities field, usually a terminal masters just means that you don't write the dissertation, and instead write a much shorter masters thesis.

Definitely separate programs. Some courses are open to all graduate students, some just to PhD students, some just to masters students. Often it's advised to make sure your PhD is from a different university than your masters. I've never heard of a PhD student in my field in Canada getting a masters as a milestone on the PhD journey or as a degree if you don't write the dissertation. If people drop out of the PhD they don't get anything. No masters, no chance to write a masters thesis instead of a dissertation. PhD coursework is typically one year, as, again, most programs require a masters so it's expected you've already done some graduate level coursework.

Masters in my field in Canada , if thesis based, are also funded. Course based masters are not funded.