The mind's eye

[Kron3007]

Fairly recently I came across an article talking about the mind's eye.  This refers to the ability to "see" images in your mind when you imagine something, while reading, etc. 

Reading this article was the first time I realized that most people can do this.  I cannot, and always thought people were speaking metaphorically when they said things like "picture a beach" or talking about images while reading. 

I find it really fascinating that our brains work so differently from one another and have a hard time wrapping my head around it.

So, when you close your eyes and picture something, do you really see it?  Likewise, when you read a book, can you actually picture the settings and people in your mind.  As I said, for me it is just blackness in there so it is a little hard to believe everyone else is walking around with these powers.

[Puget]

Hi, friendly neighborhood cognitive neuroscientist here -

Mental imagery does indeed rely on an overlapping neural network to actual visual perception, although more weakly and not normally lower-level visual areas. Whether visual imagery was actually visual was  one of the long running cognitive psychology debates in the pre-neuroimaging days, that got resolved right away once fMRI came along.

There is a spectrum in how intensely people experience visual imagery, ranging from almost not at all (aphantasia) to extremely vivid to the point of being difficult to tell from reality (hallucinations are at the far end of this spectrum). Most people are somewhere in the middle, where they can picture things with some degree of vividness but it is not like literally seeing them.

It sounds like you might be toward the aphantasia end. It's just a difference, not a disorder.https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/symptoms/25222-aphantasia

[Liquidambar]

Funny--I was just listening to a podcast about this today!  (It was a Radiolab podcast that was reposted by Science Vs:  https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/kwhxrg8z )

I can usually picture things somewhat, although not super detailed.  What I can't picture is people's faces because I have partial face blindness.

I slightly worry about aphantasia in my students because I use a lot of visuals to explain mathematical concepts.  Early in the semester I draw everything, but eventually I expect students to be able to picture things on their own.  I hope that the students who lack a mind's eye are decent at mathematical reasoning instead, but I don't know.

[Kron3007]

Hi, friendly neighborhood cognitive neuroscientist here -

Mental imagery does indeed rely on an overlapping neural network to actual visual perception, although more weakly and not normally lower-level visual areas. Whether visual imagery was actually visual was  one of the long running cognitive psychology debates in the pre-neuroimaging days, that got resolved right away once fMRI came along.

There is a spectrum in how intensely people experience visual imagery, ranging from almost not at all (aphantasia) to extremely vivid to the point of being difficult to tell from reality (hallucinations are at the far end of this spectrum). Most people are somewhere in the middle, where they can picture things with some degree of vividness but it is not like literally seeing them.

It sounds like you might be toward the aphantasia end. It's just a difference, not a disorder.https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/symptoms/25222-aphantasia

Exactly what I was hoping for and why I posted here!  Really interesting stuff.

Like I said, I had always just assumed everyone's brain. Operated in a similar manner but I guess not.  I imagine I would think a lot differently if I could make images. 

On a similar vein, I was also talking to someone once and asked them what language they think it (English is their second language). They looked at me very confused and told me they have no inner dialogue. 

Wild stuff.  Maybe I should become a cognitive neuroscientist!

[Kron3007]

Funny--I was just listening to a podcast about this today!  (It was a Radiolab podcast that was reposted by Science Vs:  https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/kwhxrg8z )

I can usually picture things somewhat, although not super detailed.  What I can't picture is people's faces because I have partial face blindness.

I slightly worry about aphantasia in my students because I use a lot of visuals to explain mathematical concepts.  Early in the semester I draw everything, but eventually I expect students to be able to picture things on their own.  I hope that the students who lack a mind's eye are decent at mathematical reasoning instead, but I don't know.

If it makes you feel better, visuals are still very useful.  I can't recreate them in my mind later, but they are still useful for conveying information. 

I do wonder how this all impacts cognitive abilities etc.  I am in STEM and am quite good at analytical thinking, including spacial reasoning etc.  I can conceptualize these things, just not picture them.

Puget?

[Puget]

On a similar vein, I was also talking to someone once and asked them what language they think it (English is their second language). They looked at me very confused and told me they have no inner dialogue. 

Wild stuff.  Maybe I should become a cognitive neuroscientist!

Yep, that's another thing people vary in -- Some people have no inner monologue and don't report thinking in words (and instead tend to think in pictures-- Temple Grandin, an autistic animal behavior scientist, wrote a memoir called Thinking in Pictures). Many others have more inner monologue than they might like.

I do wonder how this all impacts cognitive abilities etc.  I am in STEM and am quite good at analytical thinking, including spacial reasoning etc.  I can conceptualize these things, just not picture them.

Puget?

I don't think we really know. That article I liked to does say something about many people with aphantasia being in math and science. Both extremes (all pictures no words and no words all pictures) seem to be associated with autism spectrum traits, which tend to be associated with an analytical thinking style and are over-represented in STEM disciplines, so there could be something to that.

But I think the bigger picture is that there are huge individual differences in cognition, and many atypicalities are not necessarily bad, just different, and populations benefit from having people with different strengths and thinking styles. Brains really are wild!

[ciao_yall]

I have memories of being pre-verbal as a baby. Now, some say that's impossible but hey it's my brain and I believe they are real.

What I remember are impulses and realizations without words. Like crawling around and realizing that chubby little hand was mine. Or sitting on my mom's shoulders and my hand touched her mouth. It felt so soft and I kept wanting to stick my fingers in her mouth and I was determined even though I realize now she kept trying to take my hands away from her lips.

I also remember having very vivid pictures associated with words as a small child.

I think in English but French was my first language so I have a facility for learning them, and when I travel find myself trying to think in the other language. All the ambient sounds, such as water running, traffic, etc sound like the local language.

And I do have a good mind's eye and very vivid dreams.

[Hegemony]

Yes, I can picture things in really fine detail.

Kron 3007, are your dreams visual, or are those blackness as well?

The thing I do not do, but I understand many others do, is think in words all the time and narrate things to myself in words. I guess some people do self-narration all day long? I mean, I can think in words if I want to, but it is not my default state, as apparently it is for some others. To the point that they ask, "How can you think, if you're not thinking in words?" But clearly you do not need to think in words. For instance, that phenomenon where you can't immediately think of the word for something. You clearly know what it is, because you're trying to think of the word. Therefore you're thinking of it without the word.

(Somewhat related to this is that a friend of mine had some trouble remembering the word "amnesia." "What's that word for when you can't remember something?" he kept asking.)

[Kron3007]

Yes, I can picture things in really fine detail.

Kron 3007, are your dreams visual, or are those blackness as well?

The thing I do not do, but I understand many others do, is think in words all the time and narrate things to myself in words. I guess some people do self-narration all day long? I mean, I can think in words if I want to, but it is not my default state, as apparently it is for some others. To the point that they ask, "How can you think, if you're not thinking in words?" But clearly you do not need to think in words. For instance, that phenomenon where you can't immediately think of the word for something. You clearly know what it is, because you're trying to think of the word. Therefore you're thinking of it without the word.

(Somewhat related to this is that a friend of mine had some trouble remembering the word "amnesia." "What's that word for when you can't remember something?" he kept asking.)

I have dreams and they are visual.  Apparently that is normal for people with aphantasia.

I have a pretty strong inner dialogue and talk to myself a lot.  I can think without words if I concentrate, but it's hard to imagine doing that by default.  Maybe it would be easier if there were images though.

[Kron3007]

I have memories of being pre-verbal as a baby. Now, some say that's impossible but hey it's my brain and I believe they are real.

What I remember are impulses and realizations without words. Like crawling around and realizing that chubby little hand was mine. Or sitting on my mom's shoulders and my hand touched her mouth. It felt so soft and I kept wanting to stick my fingers in her mouth and I was determined even though I realize now she kept trying to take my hands away from her lips.

I also remember having very vivid pictures associated with words as a small child.

I think in English but French was my first language so I have a facility for learning them, and when I travel find myself trying to think in the other language. All the ambient sounds, such as water running, traffic, etc sound like the local language.

And I do have a good mind's eye and very vivid dreams.

That's wild, but I buy it now that I realize how very different everyone's brain is working.

Most of my memories of childhood and even teen years are vague.  I would describe them more as memories of memories.