How Do People Decide to Have Kids?

[apl68]

I feel utterly indifferent as to whether a kid shares my genes and is of my body, but I do want to love and care for a kid. However, I only want to be a parent if I can be a good one. What I want is secondary to what the kid needs. I don't want a kid to suffer because I rushed into something I wasn't prepared to do well.

There are no perfect mothers or fathers. What matters is that you try. You want to love and care for a child, and you are willing to put their needs first. That sounds like a recipe for successful parenthood to me. Trust yourself.

Love and care are what any child needs.  The desire to commit to giving these things of oneself is one of the noblest motives that anybody can have.

[Parasaurolophus]

Also FWIW, since I didn't say it earlier: in addition to being ambivalent about having children, I had no prior interest in children. They tend to like me, for reasons unknown, but I've always been pretty awkward with them, and had no real interest in playing with them, looking after them, etc.

That's still true, except that I'm not at all awkward with the hatchling,* and I enjoy playing with him.




*It's by definition impossible, because I'm (and the Maiasaurus, obviously) all he knows.

[Caracal]

I think these are key questions that I'm struggling with. I think SO is so much less scared of this decision than I am because he currently has more energy reserves than I do. He talks about feeling something missing in his life, that he needs more than work and cats and me. I feel like work and cats and him keep my hands pretty full already; I'm scared I won't be able to handle much more. We've talked about me being a stay-at-home parent so I can focus fully on childcare, but I don't know how sustainable that would be.

Kids just carve out the time and emotional energy and you have less time for all the rest. There are good and bad things about that. It is often overwhelming to have this person around to take care of and manage all the time, but on the other hand, you do tend to put less emotional energy and time into things like work-at least that's my experience.

I would think long and hard before deciding to be a stay at home parent. My wife makes a lot more than I do-and there was a moment before the kid was born when I thought "I barely make enough money to cover daycare, maybe it would make more sense for me to just stay home with the kid." Once he was actually born, I realized immediately that I would lose my mind as a stay at home parent. I'm an involved parent, but I need time and space where there's not a child around all the time.

[the_geneticist]

I think these are key questions that I'm struggling with. I think SO is so much less scared of this decision than I am because he currently has more energy reserves than I do. He talks about feeling something missing in his life, that he needs more than work and cats and me. I feel like work and cats and him keep my hands pretty full already; I'm scared I won't be able to handle much more. We've talked about me being a stay-at-home parent so I can focus fully on childcare, but I don't know how sustainable that would be.

Does your SO have any hobbies? friends? religious organizations or other clubs? family he's close with? volunteer for anything?

You cannot be his *everything* outside of work and your cats. 

If HE wanted to be a stay-at-home parent, then I'd be more inclined to support his side.  Ironically, it's easy to find other adults to socialize with if you stay home with small children - walking groups! story hour! baby & me swim classes!

[Parasaurolophus]

I think these are key questions that I'm struggling with. I think SO is so much less scared of this decision than I am because he currently has more energy reserves than I do. He talks about feeling something missing in his life, that he needs more than work and cats and me. I feel like work and cats and him keep my hands pretty full already; I'm scared I won't be able to handle much more. We've talked about me being a stay-at-home parent so I can focus fully on childcare, but I don't know how sustainable that would be.

Does your SO have any hobbies? friends? religious organizations or other clubs? family he's close with? volunteer for anything?

You cannot be his *everything* outside of work and your cats. 

If HE wanted to be a stay-at-home parent, then I'd be more inclined to support his side.  Ironically, it's easy to find other adults to socialize with if you stay home with small children - walking groups! story hour! baby & me swim classes!

Yeah, we know loads of people now that we have a hatchling, and we met them all through hatchling-focused activities. We went from knowing nobody at all after years here to knowing dozens in just a couple of years.

I'm pretty much the only male partner who's ever around, though. That suits me fine because I'm especially bad at socializing with men, but it also seems kind of sad.

[smallcleanrat]

I think these are key questions that I'm struggling with. I think SO is so much less scared of this decision than I am because he currently has more energy reserves than I do. He talks about feeling something missing in his life, that he needs more than work and cats and me. I feel like work and cats and him keep my hands pretty full already; I'm scared I won't be able to handle much more. We've talked about me being a stay-at-home parent so I can focus fully on childcare, but I don't know how sustainable that would be.

Does your SO have any hobbies? friends? religious organizations or other clubs? family he's close with? volunteer for anything?

You cannot be his *everything* outside of work and your cats. 

If HE wanted to be a stay-at-home parent, then I'd be more inclined to support his side.  Ironically, it's easy to find other adults to socialize with if you stay home with small children - walking groups! story hour! baby & me swim classes!

He has hobbies, friends, volunteer work and family. Truthfully, he's got a much fuller, more balanced life than I've managed to make for myself. But he seems to specifically need a kid for his life to feel complete. If I decide I definitely don't want to go through with having kids, he says he'll go it alone through adoption or egg donation as a single parent. We're on the older side for new parents, so I understand his reluctance to wait much longer, but I'm scared.

It's not that I don't want kids, it's that my bar for feeling ready seems to be much higher than his. Among other things, I have bipolar disorder. It's fairly well-controlled with medication currently, but I'm asking myself how I can possibly guarantee I'll maintain this level of stability for the two decades it takes to raise a child. If I do have an episode, can SO and I adequately protect our kid from being affected? SO thinks we'll work out problems as they arise. I think we need to consider these things upfront.

[dismalist]

... for the two decades it takes to raise a child.

It does not take two decades to raise a child! Children can dress and undress themselves by around the age of three. They can be as independent as one likes, or they like, from about age five.

While the earliest years of child raising are on average best provided by the mother [Law of Comparative Advantage], the father can do lots of things without danger of breaking the child. Later on, the father can do much more. For example, this soccer mom stuff we never indulged in, but I did drive child to school, to orchestra, and so on. And of course I cooked and cleaned -- for everybody.

I have to say that we lived in a neighborhood that was relatively civilized, so we could let our daughter run around outside without supervision and she could learn to take care of herself more. When she turned 16 we got her a car and she drove to High School herself.

I don't wish to convince anyone to have or not to have children. Aside from conveying a bit of realism, I merely don't want anyone to forget that raising a child is fun!

[Antiphon1]

raising a child is fun!

Damn straight.  Children remind us that we once upon a time took great joy in the simplest acts.  It's humbling and refreshing to be reminded that we can enjoy absurdity and realism simultaneously without any contradiction at all.  Being in the moment is a gift. 

[Parasaurolophus]

We're on the older side for new parents, so I understand his reluctance to wait much longer, but I'm scared.

FWIW, my partner was 36 when she gave birth (I was 34) two years ago (my mother was 28, hers, 36). Since then, most of the people with kids we've met (and it's a fair few, as I run a weekly parent-and-child singalong) are around our age. Most of them are/were new parents, too.

We're happy to have waited as long as we did. No regrets. It would have bee fine to wait longer, too.

[latico]

I think that the best thing you could do, SCR, as part of your decision-making, is expose yourself to babies.  My local hospital has multiple volunteer opportunities with kids, including being a "cuddler" (someone who soothes infants); reading bedtime stories; and the like.  A lot of what can make the first few weeks of having a baby hard is the unfamiliarity of newborns, their seemingly total fragility, their just plain alien-ness.  It takes several weeks for a baby to respond to its caregiver, so the first few weeks can feel like unremitting, unrewarded toil on behalf of this squalling little beast who is indifferent to you. Once you get that first smile...things almost always look brighter. 
So doing a bit of work with infants and young babies will calibrate your own expectations for what it will be like after you have your baby, or it will show you that you very much dislike baby care.  That in turn might lead to either deciding against kids, or structuring your family a bit differently, so that SO does the majority of baby care while you are back at work.

It is hard to make a decision about having a baby when you don't know a lot about babies.  Also, SO should do the volunteering as well; that will give you both concrete experiences to talk about together as part of your decision-making process.

From my own experience: whatever you decide, make yourself a promise that you won't look back and regret the decision.  Commit wholeheartedly to being child free or to having kids, and never find yourself at age 60 obsessing about what could have been if you did or didn't have kids.  Best of luck to you and SO!!

[latico]

Very sorry to double post, but I intended to respond to the remark you quote from your mom: "Raising you wasn't 'worth it'."  Apart from the obvious observation that it is unconscionable to say that to your child, I wanted to point out that it is not a comment about *you*, SCR.  It is really a comment about your mother's perspective on choices she made in her life and the unrealistic expectations that she allowed herself to feel about those choices. 

I feel fairly confident that even if you were a perfectly ordinary, materially successful, healthy young woman, your mother would *still* make cruel remarks like that.  She would find some negative aspect of Ordinary Daughter onto which she could project her own dissatisfaction with herself.  Because what lies behind a remark like that is profound unhappiness and self-loathing.  She is offloading it onto you, by imagining that your challenges are its cause, but don't fall for it. 

Going forward, treat your mother as if she were a troll on an internet thread: DNFTM-T (Do Not Feed The Mom-Troll).  That means never telling her anything bad that happens to you, or any of your negative thoughts or feelings, or even any of your diagnoses.  Put her on a diet of unrelenting positivity: "Yes, everything is great Mom!  I had a paper accepted! | My PI said I am a terrific teacher! | I passed my exams with flying colors! | SO is the best! | SO says I'm the best!" And so on.  This may feel false at first, but it's really only changing the focus in your relationship with her, onto everything that is positive about your life. Most parents would be *delighted* to have a child as academically successful as you are, in a field as difficult as yours.  Make sure that your successes are all your mom knows about you.

Above all, do NOT believe her cruel comments have *anything* to do with you: remember, you have been serving a useful psychological purpose for her, as an external cause she can blame for her own unhappiness and dissatisfaction. She would use *any* daughter for that purpose, no matter how wonderful she might be.

[Caracal]

Very sorry to double post, but I intended to respond to the remark you quote from your mom: "Raising you wasn't 'worth it'."  Apart from the obvious observation that it is unconscionable to say that to your child, I wanted to point out that it is not a comment about *you*, SCR.  It is really a comment about your mother's perspective on choices she made in her life and the unrealistic expectations that she allowed herself to feel about those choices. 

I feel fairly confident that even if you were a perfectly ordinary, materially successful, healthy young woman, your mother would *still* make cruel remarks like that.  She would find some negative aspect of Ordinary Daughter onto which she could project her own dissatisfaction with herself.  Because what lies behind a remark like that is profound unhappiness and self-loathing.  She is offloading it onto you, by imagining that your challenges are its cause, but don't fall for it. 

Going forward, treat your mother as if she were a troll on an internet thread: DNFTM-T (Do Not Feed The Mom-Troll).  That means never telling her anything bad that happens to you, or any of your negative thoughts or feelings, or even any of your diagnoses.  Put her on a diet of unrelenting positivity: "Yes, everything is great Mom!  I had a paper accepted! | My PI said I am a terrific teacher! | I passed my exams with flying colors! | SO is the best! | SO says I'm the best!" And so on.  This may feel false at first, but it's really only changing the focus in your relationship with her, onto everything that is positive about your life. Most parents would be *delighted* to have a child as academically successful as you are, in a field as difficult as yours.  Make sure that your successes are all your mom knows about you.

Above all, do NOT believe her cruel comments have *anything* to do with you: remember, you have been serving a useful psychological purpose for her, as an external cause she can blame for her own unhappiness and dissatisfaction. She would use *any* daughter for that purpose, no matter how wonderful she might be.

This is well said. Regret is, I suspect, mostly about an inability to manage and process feelings. We have a 2 month old and a 6 year old and at the moment, everything feels like a complete disaster most of the time. Kids are people, they don't exist to validate their parents' decisions and make them feel happy. It would be like if you expected your partner to always make you happy at every moment and never irritate or frustrate you. It doesn't work like that.

[fishbrains]

Babies aren't the hard part. They are kind of like new cars. Once you put a few dents and scratches on them, you tend to get over yourself.

And the baby stage only lasts for about a year and a half. Then they learn to walk and talk, and it's game over.

If you want to put yourself to the test, volunteer to do something with a group of 10 to 14 year olds. And don't cherry-pick for the group. You will lose quite a few brain cells, and you will want to murder some of them with every eye roll they give you; but you will get a much better view of what it's like to be a parent.

I'm not saying it's all a bad thing, but the focus on babies seems a little off-topic to me.

[smallcleanrat]

Very sorry to double post, but I intended to respond to the remark you quote from your mom: "Raising you wasn't 'worth it'."  Apart from the obvious observation that it is unconscionable to say that to your child, I wanted to point out that it is not a comment about *you*, SCR.  It is really a comment about your mother's perspective on choices she made in her life and the unrealistic expectations that she allowed herself to feel about those choices. 

I feel fairly confident that even if you were a perfectly ordinary, materially successful, healthy young woman, your mother would *still* make cruel remarks like that.  She would find some negative aspect of Ordinary Daughter onto which she could project her own dissatisfaction with herself.  Because what lies behind a remark like that is profound unhappiness and self-loathing.  She is offloading it onto you, by imagining that your challenges are its cause, but don't fall for it. 

Going forward, treat your mother as if she were a troll on an internet thread: DNFTM-T (Do Not Feed The Mom-Troll).  That means never telling her anything bad that happens to you, or any of your negative thoughts or feelings, or even any of your diagnoses.  Put her on a diet of unrelenting positivity: "Yes, everything is great Mom!  I had a paper accepted! | My PI said I am a terrific teacher! | I passed my exams with flying colors! | SO is the best! | SO says I'm the best!" And so on.  This may feel false at first, but it's really only changing the focus in your relationship with her, onto everything that is positive about your life. Most parents would be *delighted* to have a child as academically successful as you are, in a field as difficult as yours.  Make sure that your successes are all your mom knows about you.

Above all, do NOT believe her cruel comments have *anything* to do with you: remember, you have been serving a useful psychological purpose for her, as an external cause she can blame for her own unhappiness and dissatisfaction. She would use *any* daughter for that purpose, no matter how wonderful she might be.

This is well said. Regret is, I suspect, mostly about an inability to manage and process feelings. We have a 2 month old and a 6 year old and at the moment, everything feels like a complete disaster most of the time. Kids are people, they don't exist to validate their parents' decisions and make them feel happy. It would be like if you expected your partner to always make you happy at every moment and never irritate or frustrate you. It doesn't work like that.

Thank you for saying this latico and Caracal.

latico, I think your suggestion to treat my mom like an internet troll is a good one (and your DNFTM-T acronym made me smile).

Babies aren't the hard part. They are kind of like new cars. Once you put a few dents and scratches on them, you tend to get over yourself.

And the baby stage only lasts for about a year and a half. Then they learn to walk and talk, and it's game over.

If you want to put yourself to the test, volunteer to do something with a group of 10 to 14 year olds. And don't cherry-pick for the group. You will lose quite a few brain cells, and you will want to murder some of them with every eye roll they give you; but you will get a much better view of what it's like to be a parent.

I'm not saying it's all a bad thing, but the focus on babies seems a little off-topic to me.

Yeah, this is a good point. The baby stage doesn't scare me anywhere near as much as the later stages when their social/emotional/educational needs are much more complex and you have to be helping them learn independence and discipline and right-from-wrong even during times when you are the last person on earth they are inclined to listen to.

I'm already worrying about adolescent rebellion.

[Parasaurolophus]

Luckily, they spend a little over a decade building up credit with you before that happens! ;)