Classroom Management

[kerprof]

Had two weeks of classes this Spring 2020 so far.

Out of a class of 45 students, I have following disruptive issues with few (2 to 3) students led by one ring leader in one of my class

1. Coming late to the class (after the doors are closed) inspite of me telling in the first class coming late to the class is not accepted..
2. Not switching off the cell phone..
3. Talking to the neighbor students after coming late and disturbing others during the class discussion.

However, I am happy with the rest of the class with the involved discsussions...

I would like to nip it in the bud, so that the rest of the semester goes smooth for myself and other students and this disruptive
behavior does not result in  the rest of the class joining in.

Please advise how to handle this smoothly.

[nescafe]

My advice? Pick your battles. Only one of these things sounds like a confrontation I'd choose. Policing cellphone ringers is a lost cause. No one intentionally leaves their ringer on, and mistakes happen. (They even happen to me occasionally). I have a policy on my syllabus asking students to silence their cells, and refrain from texting in class. But that's usually the extent of my willingness to police devices.

Lateness? Why police that? College students are adults, and if they miss class, they suffer the consequences. I do use a participation grade and will reduce it is students are frequently absent/late, but this isn't a fight worth picking IMO.

The one issue you might fruitfully intervene in, here, is the disruptive talking. When is this happening? During group work? If so, approach the group and remind them to stay on task. Walk around the room during group activities; that often encourages students to at least pretend they are doing the assignment.

[polly_mer]

My advice? Pick your battles.

Definitely pick your battles, kerprof.

One way to deal with the cell phones is to start the class with a cheery "Check that your cell phone won't ring" and wait the minute for everyone to check.

In a class of 45, unless you are going to lock the door like Mr. Hand, I wouldn't fight that battle again.  It didn't work out in terms of getting the slackers to attend on time and it meant a few of the good students skipped the occasional session rather than being five minutes late once into a 2-hour class.  Far easier for my mental state was to gracefully incorporate the latecomers into their own group with seats set aside for those who ended up late.

[Caracal]

Had two weeks of classes this Spring 2020 so far.

Out of a class of 45 students, I have following disruptive issues with few (2 to 3) students led by one ring leader in one of my class

1. Coming late to the class (after the doors are closed) inspite of me telling in the first class coming late to the class is not accepted..
2. Not switching off the cell phone..
3. Talking to the neighbor students after coming late and disturbing others during the class discussion.

Agree with Nescafe. One of the harder parts of teaching, I've found, is figuring out where your instincts push you too far and trying to correct for that. I tend to be far too lenient and let too many things go. I am always trying to remind myself that even though I don't like it, sometimes I need to tell a student to stop doing something disruptive. You might trend in the opposite direction. We see the worst of both worlds on here sometimes where people stew about little things and let it color their interactions with their students, rather than just addressing problems.

What you don't want to be doing is making rules that you can't or won't enforce. The lateness thing seems like it fits in that category. Think about what you would have to do to enforce that rule. You would  have to stop class when someone walked in the door late and tell them to leave. That seems pretty extreme to me and I think it would to your students too. Just figure out a penalty and impose it. If you take attendance just take take off a percentage for lateness. If you don't, it would be fine to discuss it with students who are habitually late, but if you teach forty-five students, you have to expect one or two to be late most of the time.

Same with talking to their neighbors. If we are talking about a very brief exchange like "hey, can I borrow a pen, the ink on mine ran out" or "oh, hey is he talking about the Russian basketweaving technique or the Etruscan one," that's fine by me as long as its brief and quiet. If students are talking continuously, that's different and you should just tell them to stop.

[ciao_yall]

My advice? Pick your battles.

Definitely pick your battles, kerprof.

One way to deal with the cell phones is to start the class with a cheery "Check that your cell phone won't ring" and wait the minute for everyone to check.

In a class of 45, unless you are going to lock the door like Mr. Hand, I wouldn't fight that battle again.  It didn't work out in terms of getting the slackers to attend on time and it meant a few of the good students skipped the occasional session rather than being five minutes late once into a 2-hour class.  Far easier for my mental state was to gracefully incorporate the latecomers into their own group with seats set aside for those who ended up late.

My syllabus clearly stated...

• That if you phone went off, the whole class sang YMCA until you turned it off. The class gleefully complied. Cell phones were never a problem after the first time.
• That if you are late, I will call on you the second you walk in the door. Also was a fun deterrent. "Welcome to class, Kyle. Would you like to answer problem # 7 on the board for us? Here's a whiteboard marker!" Also an effective deterrent.

[dr_codex]

Parenting offers some ideas. With your first kid, you try to figure out all the boundaries. With the second and subsequent, the rules write themselves: "You cannot do that to your sibling. Knock it off."

Yes, I know it's more difficult that that, but my basic teaching philosophy (and parenting philosophy) is to be supportive and suggesting improvements ("Are you in a lab class before this one? Is there any other bus that you could catch?"), and punitive only when activities disrupt other people. Laptops are the obvious examples -- watching action movies is going to distract, no matter what. I'll insist that students leave the room for behavior that crosses the line and disrupts others. For that reason, the only time I would prevent students from arriving late is when other student presentations/performances are in process. I barely notice people coming in and out of my lectures, but nervous students don't need that.

[Aster]

All it takes is one douchebag student's behavior in the classroom to ruin most of the entire class' overall morale, overall participation, and overall academic performance.

Sometimes, there is nothing that can be done except wait until the next term.

Unless the douchebag student becomes a harassment/disruptive force as defined by your university's code of Academic Conduct. If that's happening, you can just kick them out of the room, drop them from the course, or have security frogmarch them out, depending on your university's specific policies.

If you would like to be a bit nicer and/or protect yourself better, you can also require douchebag student to meet with you in your office. Lay out all of his/her disruptive behaviors in documented form, state you or your university's repercussions for such actions, and explain that you expect corrective actions or else blah blah blah will be happening at a stated time.

The only good thing that I can say about douchebag students is that they give me the opportunity to stay informed on my university's Academic Conduct Code, Student Harassment/Disruption Policies, and to keep fresh copies of all of the relevant forms in a drawer (right next to the Academic Dishonesty/Plagiarism forms).

All that said, I've noticed that loud cell phone ringers have really dropped off from use over the last 5 years. Very few students seem to have audible ringers enabled anymore.

[mamselle]

True. They just all have those ear-thingys in all the time so it rings silently, and then out of the clear blue they start talking to someone on the other end of the line.

M.

[kerprof]

Thanks for the feedback.... I think I just need to be cool and try the following

1. Take the attendance or have the students sign the sign in sheet at the very beginning of the class... I do have grades associated for their participation and attendance in my syllabus. Also take it cool even if the student(s) is coming late as long as it is not disrupting the learning environment.

2. Before the lecture starts... show the students that I am switching off the cell phone and muting my laptop and they do the same too and wait for 1 minute to ensure they switch off the cell phone and mute the devices...

3. Only if students are talking continuously, I tell them to stop, otherwise take it cool as long as it is not disrupting the learning environment.

4. Monitor the douchebag student(s) and if needed have douchebag student(s) meet with me in my office. Lay out all of his/her disruptive behaviors in documented form, state the repercussions for such actions, and explain about my expectation on the corrective actions or else blah blah blah will be happening at a stated time.

[AvidReader]

I'm pretty gentle with cell phone ringers--usually my students have the good grace to be embarrassed, and it rarely happens multiple times. If it did, I'd probably say something casual to the student the next time I walked by.

With respect to the start of class, I (like polly_mer) don't want to risk having a good student come late. Especially at my community college, many local traffic issues can interfere. Instead, I have done the following:

1. I note tardiness in my attendance and factor that in during attendance point calculations (when relevant); also if a student is habitually late, I mention it casually in an effort to be helpful (something like one of dr_codex's suggestions, for instance).

2. I like to have a low-stakes, point-driven opportunity at the beginning of most classes. Early in the semester, I might ask students to write a few sentences about some assigned reading or work or about something in the previous class. Later in the semester, they get more casual. Late students cannot make it up, but I also usually have a mid-point activity (worth points) and if students habitually leave early, I might add another one at the end of class. These let me check in to see how students are doing and also let me show them that attendance benefits their grades.

AR.

[fishbrains]

I'm pretty gentle with cell phone ringers--usually my students have the good grace to be embarrassed, and it rarely happens multiple times. If it did, I'd probably say something casual to the student the next time I walked by.

With respect to the start of class, I (like polly_mer) don't want to risk having a good student come late. Especially at my community college, many local traffic issues can interfere. Instead, I have done the following:

2. I like to have a low-stakes, point-driven opportunity at the beginning of most classes. Early in the semester, I might ask students to write a few sentences about some assigned reading or work or about something in the previous class. Later in the semester, they get more casual. Late students cannot make it up, but I also usually have a mid-point activity (worth points) and if students habitually leave early, I might add another one at the end of class. These let me check in to see how students are doing and also let me show them that attendance benefits their grades.

AR.

This tends to be my approach for pretty much the same reasons. If I don't have a little quiz topic ready, I'll do a silly quiz like "What color is the White House?" "What company makes Dell computers?" and such. I tend to count these quizzes as a wee bit of extra credit for the course. Reward the positive behavior and all that. Plus, a-hole students almost always ask for extra credit at the end of the semester, tee-hee.

[Myword]

This situation must be disciplined asap.If you don't stop it now
it can get worse and become more difficult

I tried locking the doors and it didn't work out in my classes. It still disrupts the class. Talking during class is rude, only the students don't know that and don't care.

When their grade is involved, they will change. In your syllabus and on paper clearly state the penalties for this behavior, nicely. A few points off for lateness, too much talking, cell phone use. Some professors do this, including me. In the end, you don't have to take points off at your discretion. The better students will heed the warning, the others might not because they don't care anyway about the course. You can give them easy extra credit points but not too easy. Charity freebie points I am against--except on a tough test.
I speak from 20 years experience with low level students.

[Myword]

I forgot to mention this: sometimes coming in late is not their fault. Some professors keep students in class overtime and others must walk or bike a long way across campus to arrive on time. How large is the campus?
I worked at a very large college and this is what they told me. (If they told the truth.)

[Caracal]

This situation must be disciplined asap.If you don't stop it now
it can get worse and become more difficult

I tried locking the doors and it didn't work out in my classes. It still disrupts the class. Talking during class is rude, only the students don't know that and don't care.

When their grade is involved, they will change. In your syllabus and on paper clearly state the penalties for this behavior, nicely. A few points off for lateness, too much talking, cell phone use. Some professors do this, including me. In the end, you don't have to take points off at your discretion. The better students will heed the warning, the others might not because they don't care anyway about the course. You can give them easy extra credit points but not too easy. Charity freebie points I am against--except on a tough test.
I speak from 20 years experience with low level students.

Agree on most of this. I think the trick is to avoid making things personal. The point of policies is to set reasonable expectations. If you come in after I finish attendance, you just have to come up at the end of class and tell me you came in late. I then change the 0 I gave you for the day's attendance to an 80. That's all, I don't give any lectures. I drop a couple attendance grades so if you're late twice during the semester, no big deal. If you're always late, it starts adding up. People are still late, and I can't stop that, but I can communicate to students that they should be there when class starts.

I'm a little confused about taking points off for being disruptive during class. That seems like it could quickly get contentious. What if you think one student is talking but it is actually the guy behind him? Or what if one student keeps talking to his neighbor who is trying to pay attention to the class? I always think with behavior issues, it is better to address those in the moment, or if necessary, out of class with a student, rather through grades.

[Caracal]

I forgot to mention this: sometimes coming in late is not their fault. Some professors keep students in class overtime and others must walk or bike a long way across campus to arrive on time. How large is the campus?
I worked at a very large college and this is what they told me. (If they told the truth.)

They probably are. I taught in a building once on the far edge of campus. It was a 15 minute walk and I knew from experience that you couldn't rely on the buses to reliably get you there any quicker. I just had to allow students to be late and not take off any points.