Coronavirus

[mamselle]

Straws work just fine.

M.

[apl68]

Our students are supposed to wear masks inside, but are allowed to drink. Of course almost everybody is sipping from a bottle. Does this count as masked or unmasked (scientifically; the university clearly counts it as masked)?

I think you're misunderstanding what masks do. They aren't binary. Transmission is a matter of time and amount of virus. I get the impression that people tend to think of getting covid as like getting cooties-an infected person breathes in the room and everyone gets exposed. It's closer to carbon monoxide building up in an enclosed space. If someone drives into the garage and leaves the engine running for a minute, it isn't likely to generate enough CO₂ to make anyone sick. If they left it running for 20 minutes that would be a different story.

If someone has a bottle of water in class for an hour and takes a sip from it every 10 minutes, everyone is a lot more protected than they would be if the person was maskless the whole time. Are they as protected as they would be if the person didn't take any sips of water? No, but if you imagine a line with full protection at one end and no protection at the other, I'd assume they would be much closer to the full protection. Even if they are taking more sips than that, I'd imagine it's still better than someone wearing an ill fitting, or crummy mask.

Besides, what do you want to do? Tell students they can't drink water indoors?

Well, I remember a time when students weren't allowed to eat or drink in class at all.  And only very seldom ever needed to interrupt class to go to the bathroom, for some reason.

You're right that in calculating risks we need to bear in mind that exposure is in large part a function of how many people are in a given amount of space for a given amount of time.  For example, we have a library facility with a considerable amount of square footage, high ceilings, and good ventilation.  A library in a neighboring town has a fraction of the square footage and low ceilings.  They've found it necessary to take more stringent precautions against COVID--limiting the number of people in the building at one time and such--as a result. 

I wouldn't think that sipping from a water bottle would invalidate wearing a mask, IF they kept the mask in place when not actually taking a sip.  That's why restaurants often require customers to mask up while waiting for their meals.  It still cuts down on the building's virus load.

[Caracal]

Our students are supposed to wear masks inside, but are allowed to drink. Of course almost everybody is sipping from a bottle. Does this count as masked or unmasked (scientifically; the university clearly counts it as masked)?

I think you're misunderstanding what masks do. They aren't binary. Transmission is a matter of time and amount of virus. I get the impression that people tend to think of getting covid as like getting cooties-an infected person breathes in the room and everyone gets exposed. It's closer to carbon monoxide building up in an enclosed space. If someone drives into the garage and leaves the engine running for a minute, it isn't likely to generate enough CO₂ to make anyone sick. If they left it running for 20 minutes that would be a different story.

If someone has a bottle of water in class for an hour and takes a sip from it every 10 minutes, everyone is a lot more protected than they would be if the person was maskless the whole time. Are they as protected as they would be if the person didn't take any sips of water? No, but if you imagine a line with full protection at one end and no protection at the other, I'd assume they would be much closer to the full protection. Even if they are taking more sips than that, I'd imagine it's still better than someone wearing an ill fitting, or crummy mask.

Besides, what do you want to do? Tell students they can't drink water indoors?

Well, I remember a time when students weren't allowed to eat or drink in class at all.  And only very seldom ever needed to interrupt class to go to the bathroom, for some reason.

There was a whole Seinfeld episode about how Elaine hated this guy in her college class who said "aaaah" every time he took a sip of coffee. I'm sure there was some point where drinking was banned in classes, but it must have been a long time ago?

[namazu]

Our students are supposed to wear masks inside, but are allowed to drink. Of course almost everybody is sipping from a bottle. Does this count as masked or unmasked (scientifically; the university clearly counts it as masked)?

I think you're misunderstanding what masks do. They aren't binary. Transmission is a matter of time and amount of virus. I get the impression that people tend to think of getting covid as like getting cooties-an infected person breathes in the room and everyone gets exposed. It's closer to carbon monoxide building up in an enclosed space. If someone drives into the garage and leaves the engine running for a minute, it isn't likely to generate enough CO₂ to make anyone sick. If they left it running for 20 minutes that would be a different story.

If someone has a bottle of water in class for an hour and takes a sip from it every 10 minutes, everyone is a lot more protected than they would be if the person was maskless the whole time. Are they as protected as they would be if the person didn't take any sips of water? No, but if you imagine a line with full protection at one end and no protection at the other, I'd assume they would be much closer to the full protection. Even if they are taking more sips than that, I'd imagine it's still better than someone wearing an ill fitting, or crummy mask.

Besides, what do you want to do? Tell students they can't drink water indoors?

Of course it's not binary, and yes, of course, it's far better to be masked between sips than not to be masked at all. 

But if people are sipping *as a way to keep their masks off* for a good chunk of the class period (which is how I read rac's post), and/or many people are doing it, then yes, it meaningfully increases the risk of virus transmission compared with a class who keep their masks on for 50 whole minutes and who drink water outside between class periods or during breaks.  (You imply that this is unreasonable; I disagree.)

With the delta variant, the time to reach an infectious dose in an enclosed space appears to be much lower than with some earlier variants.  This is not a wholly unreasonable concern for those of us who don't live in vaccine-mandate-land and/or who are in areas with high transmission.

[Caracal]

Our students are supposed to wear masks inside, but are allowed to drink. Of course almost everybody is sipping from a bottle. Does this count as masked or unmasked (scientifically; the university clearly counts it as masked)?

I think you're misunderstanding what masks do. They aren't binary. Transmission is a matter of time and amount of virus. I get the impression that people tend to think of getting covid as like getting cooties-an infected person breathes in the room and everyone gets exposed. It's closer to carbon monoxide building up in an enclosed space. If someone drives into the garage and leaves the engine running for a minute, it isn't likely to generate enough CO₂ to make anyone sick. If they left it running for 20 minutes that would be a different story.

If someone has a bottle of water in class for an hour and takes a sip from it every 10 minutes, everyone is a lot more protected than they would be if the person was maskless the whole time. Are they as protected as they would be if the person didn't take any sips of water? No, but if you imagine a line with full protection at one end and no protection at the other, I'd assume they would be much closer to the full protection. Even if they are taking more sips than that, I'd imagine it's still better than someone wearing an ill fitting, or crummy mask.

Besides, what do you want to do? Tell students they can't drink water indoors?

Of course it's not binary, and yes, of course, it's far better to be masked between sips than not to be masked at all. 

But if people are sipping *as a way to keep their masks off* for a good chunk of the class period (which is how I read rac's post), and/or many people are doing it, then yes, it meaningfully increases the risk of virus transmission compared with a class who keep their masks on for 50 whole minutes and who drink water outside between class periods or during breaks.  (You imply that this is unreasonable; I disagree.)

With the delta variant, the time to reach an infectious dose in an enclosed space appears to be much lower than with some earlier variants.  This is not a wholly unreasonable concern for those of us who don't live in vaccine-mandate-land and/or who are in areas with high transmission.

Well, I teach somewhere without a mandate in an area with pretty high transmission at the moment. Look, I would prefer not to get covid too, but as a vaccinated person, my chances of having a serious case are very low. That's why I'm happy to be back in the classroom. I'm glad we have a mask mandate. However, you have to accept the limitations of masks, and those limitations are mostly down to humans wearing them. Since I like having humans in my classes, I don't really want to spend my time and energy obsessing about mask rules and ways in which I can imagine students might be evading them.

The alternative is having more and more rules and making class more unpleasant and restrictive for students. I still haven't seen any reports of clusters of cases in college classrooms, so I can't really see what the justification for rules like that would be. It is fine to want to reduce risk, but at some point you have to realize you can't eliminate it entirely.

[the_geneticist]

Our students are supposed to wear masks inside, but are allowed to drink. Of course almost everybody is sipping from a bottle. Does this count as masked or unmasked (scientifically; the university clearly counts it as masked)?

I think you're misunderstanding what masks do. They aren't binary. Transmission is a matter of time and amount of virus. I get the impression that people tend to think of getting covid as like getting cooties-an infected person breathes in the room and everyone gets exposed. It's closer to carbon monoxide building up in an enclosed space. If someone drives into the garage and leaves the engine running for a minute, it isn't likely to generate enough CO₂ to make anyone sick. If they left it running for 20 minutes that would be a different story.

If someone has a bottle of water in class for an hour and takes a sip from it every 10 minutes, everyone is a lot more protected than they would be if the person was maskless the whole time. Are they as protected as they would be if the person didn't take any sips of water? No, but if you imagine a line with full protection at one end and no protection at the other, I'd assume they would be much closer to the full protection. Even if they are taking more sips than that, I'd imagine it's still better than someone wearing an ill fitting, or crummy mask.

Besides, what do you want to do? Tell students they can't drink water indoors?

Of course it's not binary, and yes, of course, it's far better to be masked between sips than not to be masked at all. 

But if people are sipping *as a way to keep their masks off* for a good chunk of the class period (which is how I read rac's post), and/or many people are doing it, then yes, it meaningfully increases the risk of virus transmission compared with a class who keep their masks on for 50 whole minutes and who drink water outside between class periods or during breaks.  (You imply that this is unreasonable; I disagree.)

With the delta variant, the time to reach an infectious dose in an enclosed space appears to be much lower than with some earlier variants.  This is not a wholly unreasonable concern for those of us who don't live in vaccine-mandate-land and/or who are in areas with high transmission.

Airlines are having to deal with passengers who try to use the "but I have a drink" as an excuse to not wear their masks on flights.  I feel like there is market potential for a mask with a sippy straw attachment.  Sure, folks would look silly wearing one, but they would be masked up, able to enjoy their drink, and someone would be making a profit!

[science.expat]

A straw will slide under a mask k. I'm just trying to find a place to buy a steel one. I've seen them in pubs but not retail.

[Kron3007]

A straw will slide under a mask k. I'm just trying to find a place to buy a steel one. I've seen them in pubs but not retail.

Amazon has them.

I kind of prefer the silicon straws personally...

[downer]

A straw will slide under a mask k. I'm just trying to find a place to buy a steel one. I've seen them in pubs but not retail.

Amazon has them.

I kind of prefer the silicon straws personally...

Also IKEA.

[Stockmann]

Well, I remember a time when students weren't allowed to eat or drink in class at all. 

Hopefully that's still the case for some classes at least - sure, put your sandwich there, just move the aqua regia and the benzene somewhere, and keep that container labelled "Potassium" away from the sink...

[downer]

I had a student the other day who was sitting in the front. He got out his thermos and poured out some soup into the cup part and started on it with a spoon, mask under chin.

I hadn't quite registered what he was doing because it seemed about as likely as him taking a dump on the floor. I did a double-take when I realized.

You will be glad to know I kept my professional reserve in asking him to cease and desist in his activity, which he did, with apparent surprise that I might have a problem with it.

[Caracal]

I had a student the other day who was sitting in the front. He got out his thermos and poured out some soup into the cup part and started on it with a spoon, mask under chin.

I hadn't quite registered what he was doing because it seemed about as likely as him taking a dump on the floor. I did a double-take when I realized.

You will be glad to know I kept my professional reserve in asking him to cease and desist in his activity, which he did, with apparent surprise that I might have a problem with it.

In normal times, I don't really care if students eat in class, but I feel like the basic rule ought to be that you can't eat anything that you can't hold in one hand while eating. If it needs silverware you can't eat it in class. If you need to eat it out of the container, you can't eat it in class. No boxes of food and no spreads. If you need to hold a sandwich like thing in both hands to eat it, it's too much.

[downer]

In the past my rule has been they can't eat anything that other people can smell or hear.

[dismalist]

The median American is eating.

[Langue_doc]

I had a student the other day who was sitting in the front. He got out his thermos and poured out some soup into the cup part and started on it with a spoon, mask under chin.

I hadn't quite registered what he was doing because it seemed about as likely as him taking a dump on the floor. I did a double-take when I realized.

You will be glad to know I kept my professional reserve in asking him to cease and desist in his activity, which he did, with apparent surprise that I might have a problem with it.

This should go in the banging head thread, but here it is.

I once had a student who would bring a salad bowl to class and proceed to have a leisurely meal, holding the bowl in one hand, and a fork in the other. This was a writing class, so since Stu spent more time eating than writing, Stu failed the course. I had a long conversation with Stu explaining why using one's writing hand for purposes other than writing in a writing class was not such a good idea. The following couple of semesters I had a sentence in my syllabus to the effect that students could consume snacks that didn't involve the use of tableware but that they needed to be able to use their writing hand in class. In another class a student was likewise using both hands on a meal, one hand to hold the take-out container, and the other hand to weild chopsticks.