Covid-19 Response: Evidence of How Higher Ed Can Be Completely Restructured?

[spork]

I'm wondering if any of the hastily-made, crisis perception-driven changes that are occurring now in higher ed will cause people to realize, "Hey, we can do things very differently and get the same or better outcomes." Or if this will be a missed opportunity.

[Hegemony]

I'm not sure we're going to get the same or better outcomes. Online courses typically have a much higher drop-out rate, because the engagement is so impersonal, no matter what is tried to mitigate it. And there are so many things that can't be taught successfully online: lab courses, engineering where you have to do hands-on teamwork, theatre arts, dance, orchestra, clinical practice, and many other things. Some things you could teach wholly online to motivated students. That has always been true, just as motivated, capable students can learn a whole field of education from books. But why do we have universities instead of letting everyone just read books? A lot of it is the structured engagement and interaction that comes from learning in face-to-face groups.

I have no doubt that there are already bean-counting administrators who are yearning to cut everything down to the minimum and get it all online. We've already heard of the automated online courses at for-profit universities, where the instructors just deliver pre-prepared uniform "content" to students. I guess if that's what you call education, then we can restructure higher ed that way, sure.

[Wahoo Redux]

Imagine how much cheaper it would be if all classes were taught online.  This disaster will test how well it can be done.

Funny, as I type this I am watching the '60s sci-fi UK dystopian show The Prisoner, the episode "The General."  It has a character simply known as "The Professor" who teaches "a three year course in three minutes" over the television.  "Speed learning" has made the Professor obsolete.  Everyone must enroll.

Distance Ed is "mass education" in the show and equates to mind control.   

[spork]

Interesting how people jump to online instruction as the only potential change to higher ed.

Is it really necessary to convene all classes in a physical space on campus twice or thrice a week in 50- or 75-minute increments between 8:00 am and 5:00 pm M-F?

Edited to add: in 15-week increments (for many)?

[ciao_yall]

I'm not sure we're going to get the same or better outcomes. Online courses typically have a much higher drop-out rate, because the engagement is so impersonal, no matter what is tried to mitigate it. And there are so many things that can't be taught successfully online: lab courses, engineering where you have to do hands-on teamwork, theatre arts, dance, orchestra, clinical practice, and many other things. Some things you could teach wholly online to motivated students. That has always been true, just as motivated, capable students can learn a whole field of education from books. But why do we have universities instead of letting everyone just read books? A lot of it is the structured engagement and interaction that comes from learning in face-to-face groups.

I have no doubt that there are already bean-counting administrators who are yearning to cut everything down to the minimum and get it all online. We've already heard of the automated online courses at for-profit universities, where the instructors just deliver pre-prepared uniform "content" to students. I guess if that's what you call education, then we can restructure higher ed that way, sure.

Our students, especially international ones, are asking for refunds. They didn't go through all the hassle and expense of moving to the United States to stay in their rented rooms and take classes from their computers.

[tuxthepenguin]

Imagine how much cheaper it would be if all classes were taught online.

How can it get cheaper than an instructor showing up in the classroom, delivering a lecture, and interacting with the students in person?

Interesting how people jump to online instruction as the only potential change to higher ed.

Is it really necessary to convene all classes in a physical space on campus twice or thrice a week in 50- or 75-minute increments between 8:00 am and 5:00 pm M-F?

That's never been necessary, and alternatives do exist, but the students want to meet in 50 and 75 minute increments between 8 and 5 M-F. Traditional college students don't want to take a class at 8 pm or on Sunday.

[spork]

Imagine how much cheaper it would be if all classes were taught online.

How can it get cheaper than an instructor showing up in the classroom, delivering a lecture, and interacting with the students in person?

Interesting how people jump to online instruction as the only potential change to higher ed.

Is it really necessary to convene all classes in a physical space on campus twice or thrice a week in 50- or 75-minute increments between 8:00 am and 5:00 pm M-F?

That's never been necessary, and alternatives do exist, but the students want to meet in 50 and 75 minute increments between 8 and 5 M-F. Traditional college students don't want to take a class at 8 pm or on Sunday.

"Traditional" is no longer the majority.

CVS now offers immunizations. I can now learn how to fix my washing machine with YouTube.

Per Kevin Kelly: "Institutions will try to preserve the problem to which they are the solution." — Clay Shirky

[Wahoo Redux]

Imagine how much cheaper it would be if all classes were taught online.

How can it get cheaper than an instructor showing up in the classroom, delivering a lecture, and interacting with the students in person?

Well, how much would we save on facilities and classroom technology if every prof were teaching from a laptop?  Not to mention the small incidentals such as copying costs and janitorial work?

[mahagonny]

I'm wondering to what extent the types of courses that will owing to their nature will be the least successful online will come to be viewed as an inconvenient expense and targeted for special investigation as to their necessity.

[mahagonny]

I'm wondering to what extent the types of courses that will owing to their nature will be the least successful online will come to be viewed as an inconvenient expense and targeted for special investigation as to their necessity.

[tuxthepenguin]

Imagine how much cheaper it would be if all classes were taught online.

How can it get cheaper than an instructor showing up in the classroom, delivering a lecture, and interacting with the students in person?

Interesting how people jump to online instruction as the only potential change to higher ed.

Is it really necessary to convene all classes in a physical space on campus twice or thrice a week in 50- or 75-minute increments between 8:00 am and 5:00 pm M-F?

That's never been necessary, and alternatives do exist, but the students want to meet in 50 and 75 minute increments between 8 and 5 M-F. Traditional college students don't want to take a class at 8 pm or on Sunday.

"Traditional" is no longer the majority.

Sure is at my university. Not even close. But as I wrote, evening and weekend classes have been offered for decades, and to the extent that there's demand, they're offered. It's as if you've missed the last 30 or so years of our industry.

[apl68]

I'm not sure we're going to get the same or better outcomes. Online courses typically have a much higher drop-out rate, because the engagement is so impersonal, no matter what is tried to mitigate it. And there are so many things that can't be taught successfully online: lab courses, engineering where you have to do hands-on teamwork, theatre arts, dance, orchestra, clinical practice, and many other things. Some things you could teach wholly online to motivated students. That has always been true, just as motivated, capable students can learn a whole field of education from books. But why do we have universities instead of letting everyone just read books? A lot of it is the structured engagement and interaction that comes from learning in face-to-face groups.

I have no doubt that there are already bean-counting administrators who are yearning to cut everything down to the minimum and get it all online. We've already heard of the automated online courses at for-profit universities, where the instructors just deliver pre-prepared uniform "content" to students. I guess if that's what you call education, then we can restructure higher ed that way, sure.

Our students, especially international ones, are asking for refunds. They didn't go through all the hassle and expense of moving to the United States to stay in their rented rooms and take classes from their computers.

This panic closing of campuses looks like it's shaping up to be a nationwide train wreck for Higher Ed.  Probably not the kind of disruption that's really going to result in a considered re-evaluation of how Higher Ed does things.

[Aster]

It's sort of like a hurricane event, only affecting a lot more areas and a lot more colleges.

Schools are closed for a time, contact hours and curricula get kinda hozed, and money will get tight. Many students will receive a reduced educational experience, but it won't be so reduced as to be viewed as catastrophic. Plus, most students if given the choice will opt for the easiest and fastest experience. And they'll take whatever forced campus closure and treat it like a holiday. They'll take time off early and show up late after the campus has already reopened.

[Wahoo Redux]

It's sort of like a hurricane event, only affecting a lot more areas and a lot more colleges.

Schools are closed for a time, contact hours and curricula get kinda hozed, and money will get tight. Many students will receive a reduced educational experience, but it won't be so reduced as to be viewed as catastrophic. Plus, most students if given the choice will opt for the easiest and fastest experience. And they'll take whatever forced campus closure and treat it like a holiday. They'll take time off early and show up late after the campus has already reopened.

The faculty are not exactly displeased, however.

[mythbuster]

I teach lab science classes. These involve hands on skills that cannot be replicated through any sort of virtual lab. You also need specialized equipment, so no lab in your kitchen. There really is no satisfactory alternative to labs like these.