Managing a lab during coronavirus & finding support outside a lab

[seym8842]

Just checking in and giving an update. I'm so grateful to everyone here who has offered their support virtually because I don't have much support elsewhere.

I've connected with a virtual therapist which is helping, and focusing more on my metal health and self-care during this time.

An issue I want to bring up is one with work. After reflecting for some time, I've realized a dilemma I've gotten myself into: I realize that I developed a habit of seeking help from my PI by not succeeding. That is, I noticed that when I'm doing well on my own, my PI seems to forget about my project and really reduces communication with me. But when I struggle and need more guidance from my PI, that is the only time I get attention and collaborative conversations.

I bet this isn't unusual for a lot of trainees to learn to be needy. But how can I break this cycle? What others ways can I directly or indirectly encourage my PI to maintain focus on my research progress?

This may not be what you want to hear, but as a postdoc about to transition to faculty next year, you should be trying to establish your independence, not trying to get more PI attention. Next year YOU will be the PI-- use this as an opportunity to get used to that.

Get as many papers as you can in the pipeline now while you can't do lab work-- next year you will be exceedingly busy setting up your lab and teaching, and won't have much time to get to them.

Treat your PI as just another collaborator (and you will have many collaborators through the years who are slow to respond on stuff). Send him occasional updates. Better yet, send him polished paper drafts. Do not ask for attention, ask for what you need to get papers out the door.

That's fair, and I believe that's good advice. I admit it's still challenging to swallow, but I need to put my big pants on now.

Does more independence also include avoiding asking my PI re: advice as a junior faculty member (e.g., setting up a lab, first big grant submission)? If so, who should I find as a mentor re: those skills?

[Ruralguy]

Yes and no.

I think you have to establish your independence *first* (and your usefulness to him/her)
and then ask questions about being a faculty member.

Before that point, ask others or you will be seen as needy and cluelessly putting the cart before the horse, etc.

[Puget]

Just checking in and giving an update. I'm so grateful to everyone here who has offered their support virtually because I don't have much support elsewhere.

I've connected with a virtual therapist which is helping, and focusing more on my metal health and self-care during this time.

An issue I want to bring up is one with work. After reflecting for some time, I've realized a dilemma I've gotten myself into: I realize that I developed a habit of seeking help from my PI by not succeeding. That is, I noticed that when I'm doing well on my own, my PI seems to forget about my project and really reduces communication with me. But when I struggle and need more guidance from my PI, that is the only time I get attention and collaborative conversations.

I bet this isn't unusual for a lot of trainees to learn to be needy. But how can I break this cycle? What others ways can I directly or indirectly encourage my PI to maintain focus on my research progress?

This may not be what you want to hear, but as a postdoc about to transition to faculty next year, you should be trying to establish your independence, not trying to get more PI attention. Next year YOU will be the PI-- use this as an opportunity to get used to that.

Get as many papers as you can in the pipeline now while you can't do lab work-- next year you will be exceedingly busy setting up your lab and teaching, and won't have much time to get to them.

Treat your PI as just another collaborator (and you will have many collaborators through the years who are slow to respond on stuff). Send him occasional updates. Better yet, send him polished paper drafts. Do not ask for attention, ask for what you need to get papers out the door.

That's fair, and I believe that's good advice. I admit it's still challenging to swallow, but I need to put my big pants on now.

Does more independence also include avoiding asking my PI re: advice as a junior faculty member (e.g., setting up a lab, first big grant submission)? If so, who should I find as a mentor re: those skills?

I think it depends on your relationship with your PI. In this case it sounds like you may not get very useful mentoring on that, but I think it's fine to ask advice on specific things ("teach me everything I need to know to be a PI" is probably a non-starter). Does your new department assign a senior faculty mentor to junior faculty? If so, that person is your new go-to, but do be careful about still establishing independence and not asking too much of them. If you have colleagues a few years ahead of you who are in TT positions, they can be great for trading ideas and advice.

[polly_mer]

One way to develop good, informal mentors is to cultivate a real relationship that involves contact and discussion, not just asking questions to get a specific project task moved forward. 

One way to develop a good professional network is to cultivate real relationships based on shared interests and perhaps a personal interaction (e.g., I know a lot of families of my collaborators and they know mine through years of dinners at conferences and barbecues etc. when we live in the same town).

Treat your PI as just another collaborator (and you will have many collaborators through the years who are slow to respond on stuff). Send him occasional updates. Better yet, send him polished paper drafts. Do not ask for attention, ask for what you need to get papers out the door.

I would amend this to "keep your collaborators in the loop with regular, planned updates".  While the Dilbert universe is filled with meetings that are pointless, having a regular project meeting (in-person/on-the-phone/exchange of emails) on a calendar means one has a natural opportunity to just check in and not fall off the radar. 

I had a call just last week that started with "We haven't spoken in a while so I thought I'd check in".  Nothing was due because we're not currently working together on a project.  However, we have overlapping research interests and it's nice to kick around ideas together.

Before last month, I used to have regular lunches with folks to do similar "hey, how's it going?" checkins that have nothing to do with projects. I put on my calendar times to drop by colleague's offices if we don't have a project that warrants regular meetings for project updates.  Now, I have a couple phone calls scheduled and have sent about an email a week asking if someone wants to chat by phone as we would in the hallway.

That's a way to keep in touch and feel valued all around as a colleague, but doesn't require a lot of energy or effort on anyone's part.

[Puget]

One way to develop good, informal mentors is to cultivate a real relationship that involves contact and discussion, not just asking questions to get a specific project task moved forward. 

One way to develop a good professional network is to cultivate real relationships based on shared interests and perhaps a personal interaction (e.g., I know a lot of families of my collaborators and they know mine through years of dinners at conferences and barbecues etc. when we live in the same town).

Treat your PI as just another collaborator (and you will have many collaborators through the years who are slow to respond on stuff). Send him occasional updates. Better yet, send him polished paper drafts. Do not ask for attention, ask for what you need to get papers out the door.

I would amend this to "keep your collaborators in the loop with regular, planned updates".  While the Dilbert universe is filled with meetings that are pointless, having a regular project meeting (in-person/on-the-phone/exchange of emails) on a calendar means one has a natural opportunity to just check in and not fall off the radar. 

I had a call just last week that started with "We haven't spoken in a while so I thought I'd check in".  Nothing was due because we're not currently working together on a project.  However, we have overlapping research interests and it's nice to kick around ideas together.

Before last month, I used to have regular lunches with folks to do similar "hey, how's it going?" checkins that have nothing to do with projects. I put on my calendar times to drop by colleague's offices if we don't have a project that warrants regular meetings for project updates.  Now, I have a couple phone calls scheduled and have sent about an email a week asking if someone wants to chat by phone as we would in the hallway.

That's a way to keep in touch and feel valued all around as a colleague, but doesn't require a lot of energy or effort on anyone's part.

I totally agree with this for relationships with peer colleagues. I have one person in particular I've been collaborating with since grad school and we do this frequently. My advice here was particular to this situation, where the OP (a) has realized they've accidentally established a needy, learned helplessness pattern with their PI in a bid for attention, and (b) is about to transition to a faculty position next year. In this situation it seems like a good idea to start practicing much more independence and just focusing on what they need to get postdoc products out the door before moving.

[seym8842]

One way to develop good, informal mentors is to cultivate a real relationship that involves contact and discussion, not just asking questions to get a specific project task moved forward. 

One way to develop a good professional network is to cultivate real relationships based on shared interests and perhaps a personal interaction (e.g., I know a lot of families of my collaborators and they know mine through years of dinners at conferences and barbecues etc. when we live in the same town).

Treat your PI as just another collaborator (and you will have many collaborators through the years who are slow to respond on stuff). Send him occasional updates. Better yet, send him polished paper drafts. Do not ask for attention, ask for what you need to get papers out the door.

I would amend this to "keep your collaborators in the loop with regular, planned updates".  While the Dilbert universe is filled with meetings that are pointless, having a regular project meeting (in-person/on-the-phone/exchange of emails) on a calendar means one has a natural opportunity to just check in and not fall off the radar. 

I had a call just last week that started with "We haven't spoken in a while so I thought I'd check in".  Nothing was due because we're not currently working together on a project.  However, we have overlapping research interests and it's nice to kick around ideas together.

Before last month, I used to have regular lunches with folks to do similar "hey, how's it going?" checkins that have nothing to do with projects. I put on my calendar times to drop by colleague's offices if we don't have a project that warrants regular meetings for project updates.  Now, I have a couple phone calls scheduled and have sent about an email a week asking if someone wants to chat by phone as we would in the hallway.

That's a way to keep in touch and feel valued all around as a colleague, but doesn't require a lot of energy or effort on anyone's part.

I totally agree with this for relationships with peer colleagues. I have one person in particular I've been collaborating with since grad school and we do this frequently. My advice here was particular to this situation, where the OP (a) has realized they've accidentally established a needy, learned helplessness pattern with their PI in a bid for attention, and (b) is about to transition to a faculty position next year. In this situation it seems like a good idea to start practicing much more independence and just focusing on what they need to get postdoc products out the door before moving.

Good recommendations. Even if I can't maintain these relationships now, I can try to initiate them in my next phase early on.

[Kron3007]

Regarding treating your current PI as just another collaborator, I would go one further and suggest you should plan to avoid them as a collaborator for the near future.  As mentioned, you need to establish independence, and collaborating with your former PI does not help with this.  Perhaps I am sensitive to this as I had an important early grant rejected largely on this basis (was later successful in the program). 

That being said, you will always have a different relationship with them and it is fully appropriate to ask their advice on specific things.  However, you will be in a new place where their advice may or may not work, so also try to cultivate someone in the new location.  I think the best mentor is someone a little more senior but has somewhat recently been through the process.