Self-Publishing for MFA's?

[Larimar]

I've been trying to get my manuscript published for several years. It's not an academic monograph; I'm an MFA and my work is artistic. I've tried several rounds of selecting and arranging, I've researched publishers to try to find a good fit, and I've entered the reputable contests I've found and submitted to open reading periods. Nothing. No feedback, either, though I understand that is rare to nonexistent. I don't know what else to do to try to get published. Maybe I completely and utterly suck, but I get individual pieces published in magazines on a semi-regular basis, so I do still have some hope that it isn't that.

My SO thinks I should self-publish. He says the way the publishing industry has changed means that it isn't the black mark against one's name that it used to be. Can anyone confirm or refute this? SO makes it sound tempting, but I'm still squeamish because I don't want my life's work to become a vanity project. Yet the market being what it is for my genre, it may be the only way for my book ever to exist. I don't really have anyone knowledgeable to ask advice from. I graduated long enough ago that my alma mater wouldn't want to bother with me even if they weren't locked down by the coronavirus. Can any forumites advise me?

Thanks,

Larimar

[Morden]

Hi Larimar, I think it depends why you want to publish. If you want to publish in order to fulfill some institutional criteria of productivity (would you mention this in an annual report?), then self-publishing still is a black mark. If you want to publish to get this thing out into the world, that's different--but still really hard because it's hard to attract a readership. Do you have a blog or social media presence that might encourage people to try your book?

[zuzu_]

I think it depends on your goal.

Is your goal to build your academic CV or make tenure? Do not self-publish.
Do you want to sell your work and make money? Your SO is correct that people who write genre fiction and other niche types of books can make good money from self-publishing. But virtually no literary writers make good, steady income from writing.
Do you just want to just get your work out there? Self-publish might be fine
Do you want to gain prestige as a writer? Do not self-publish.

Even excellent writers who are ultimately successful will often submit manuscripts 100+ times before they get an agent or a publisher. Have you published smaller works in literary magazines? This will help you build your reputation and make connections with editors and others.

Also, even if you are far removed from your MFA program, you need to find a community of writers who can answer these questions with more nuance and wisdom than we can here. You can do this on social media or in person by getting involved with your local arts scene (eventually).

[mamselle]

What arts area/media do you work in?

M.

[Larimar]

Thank you Morden, Zuzu, and Mamselle for your replies. I'm a writer. My motivation is mostly getting my work out there and becoming a respectable author, with some wish to make some money. There's no pressure from my institution. I am an adjunct at OnlyGameInTown Community College, and my field is so saturated that there is no hope of becoming anything else. Given the state of the job market and life on the tenure track I'm not sure I'd want to even if it were possible. Too much stress.

I do have something of a community of writers. They're great and the workshop meetings are very helpful. None of them have publishers though, and only a couple have self-published. They don't know the answers to my questions. The local art scene isn't very local. I'd have to drive about an hour to get to the nearer of the two large cities that have anything. I have had small pieces published in magazines. A couple of publications in particular seem to like my stuff. I participate in the readings at the local public libraries when I can. I love doing that. The reading series is pretty much toast for the foreseeable future though. I don't have much of an online presence. I'm an introvert and something of a technophobe; Facebook for instance creeps me out. Maybe I need to do it anyway.

Larimar

[Hegemony]

Larimar, may I suggest that you join the Facebook group "Binders Seeking Literary Agents," if you are female or female-identified? There is great discussion on there about how to pitch to agents and publishers. Right now there are agents who have seen their submissions dry up, with the virus crisis, and who are giving free critiques of proposals and submissions. There are also references to actual reliable publishing industry experts, not fly-by-night scam artists, you can pay to give you a critique. I think all of those would be better avenues than self-publishing.  Self-publishing will not look good on your academic CV, and has very little success in selling an appreciable number of books, especially for fiction.

It also may be that this current project is not really going to take off, and your wisest move would be to put it in a drawer and start on the next one. Every successful novelist has several manuscripts in drawers. The key is accepting when something's not working and moving ahead.

[Larimar]

Thank you, Hegemony. Yes, I am female, and that group might perhaps be worth joining Facebook for. I have seen opportunities before to get manuscript critiques from personages associated with some of the publishers I have submitted to in the past. My husband (SO mentioned earlier = husband) talked me out of doing it at the time, because it's expensive. If it's possible to get a reputable critique for free, or for a small amount, that would be awesome. I should probably specify that I am a poet. Somewhere I heard that agents won't represent poets. Does anyone know if that's true?

I do have a second project about halfway done. Boo hiss to the coronavirus for cancelling the trip that was going to assist me in completing it!

Larimar

[Morden]

Hi Larimar, Some poets I know have been published by Frontenac House Press and were happy with the process. You might inquire with them.
https://www.frontenachouse.com/submissions/

[Hegemony]

Larimar, I see.  I had imagined you were a novelist.  No, you're right, agents generally do not represent poets.  I would guess that the majority of poets who publish in journals never publish a collected volume, I mean a book. The sales simply aren't there; there isn't a market for them. I would imagine that's why you're not getting takers for your book. You could self-publish a collection, but I imagine the only market for it might be if you give a lot of readings — you might sell a few after each reading.  I'm not sure it would be worth the hassle of putting the book together, though.

[mamselle]

You might contact Grolier Poetry Bookstore in Cambridge (USA).

(I'll post their link when next on my laptop.)

The have a sense of what sells, and offer readings and workshops.

M.

[Larimar]

Thank you again. I will look into these things.

Larimar

[Wahoo Redux]

Hi Larimar, fellow writer / MFA-er here.  You have simply entered the difficult world of the artist.  Get used to it. 

Firstly, you do not "suck."  Get that out of your head immediately.  These open readings and contests may get anywhere from 300 to 1,000+ entries depending on the prize and the publisher.  For contests, a team of (often graduate student) editors will cull the list down to maybe 30 manuscripts and then hand them off to a writer who has made a small mark on the publishing world, usually by winning a contest & getting a TT job, and hu will then pick one manuscript to publish----sometimes presses will pick non-award manuscripts to also publish but only a few.  The open reading periods are not much different except that you may have one or maybe two editors who make a decision on maybe one to three manuscripts depending on the size of the publisher and your genre.  The odds don't sound that bad, but they are.

In other words, the decision to publish is based on a handful of personal preferences and not indicative of your work at all----it really is about editors' and judges' tastes.  I've read a good deal of contest winning material; sometimes I'm blown away, sometimes I'm like "You kidding me?! This?!"

What you may have to do is pack your current manuscript away for the time being and get started on your next manuscript.  Everything you write will make you better.  Publications will start to come more and more frequently.  Later, when you are established, edit and resubmit your initial manuscript.

Right now send out individual pieces of your work to journals and magazines, high and low.  Make some contacts if you can (there are a number of conspiracy theories about publishers running contests with entry fees to pay for the publication of friends' manuscripts...and there may be some meat in that idea...sometimes).

I can't remember how long it took to find publishers for my first chap book and then my two full-length collections, but it was a looooooooong while under a mountain of rejections.  These were all manuscripts I wrote after my initial MFA portfolio.  This is the name of the game.  Every published writer I know has been through this painful and demoralizing process. Your MFA chair should have talked to you about this.  Watch the movie La-La Land.  Our world is like the world of Hollywood stars trying to break into Tinseltown.

I will say that seeing your name in a table of contents or on the side of a book is absolutely thrilling, as is someone complimenting you out of the blue on somethine they've read, and suddenly it is (almost) all worth while.

The big thing is that you have the strength and confidence to stick to it.  You might get it out of your head that you will make money off writing, at least very much money----very few writers actually do. Poets make no money from their poetry.  Sharon Olds is the only poet who makes money off her poetry, and then not a lot. That's why so many writers work as teacher or editors or lawyers or admin assistants for a living.

Good luck and keep us posted. W

[apl68]

Hi Larimar, fellow writer / MFA-er here.  You have simply entered the difficult world of the artist.  Get used to it. 

Firstly, you do not "suck."  Get that out of your head immediately.  These open readings and contests may get anywhere from 300 to 1,000+ entries depending on the prize and the publisher.  For contests, a team of (often graduate student) editors will cull the list down to maybe 30 manuscripts and then hand them off to a writer who has made a small mark on the publishing world, usually by winning a contest & getting a TT job, and hu will then pick one manuscript to publish----sometimes presses will pick non-award manuscripts to also publish but only a few.  The open reading periods are not much different except that you may have one or maybe two editors who make a decision on maybe one to three manuscripts depending on the size of the publisher and your genre.  The odds don't sound that bad, but they are.

In other words, the decision to publish is based on a handful of personal preferences and not indicative of your work at all----it really is about editors' and judges' tastes.  I've read a good deal of contest winning material; sometimes I'm blown away, sometimes I'm like "You kidding me?! This?!"

Chime regarding the amount of competition out there being so great that it's very hard to get anybody's notice.  I haven't even had any success with entries into a regional, just-for-fun haiku contest.  And I know I'm not that bad at haiku, even if I do say so myself.

You sound like you're much more serious about this than I am so...just keep persisting with persistence.  And remember, even if you don't get many readers, you still get to have the fun of writing stuff.

[writingprof]

Sharon Olds is the only poet who makes money off her poetry, and then not a lot.

Billy Collins does pretty well, too.  And, of course, the Instagram poets make six figures, God love 'em. 

OP, there is no money to be made in (non-Instagram) poetry, so you should wait for a real publisher only if you need it for your C.V. or can't shake off the idea of what having a real publisher means as a cultural signifier.  The latter describes me, so no judgment here.

[Wahoo Redux]

Oh yeah, Billy Collins!  He sure seems like a nice guy, and I sure hate his poetry.  Probably why I didn't think of him.

Mary Oliver probably made some money, and maybe Philip Levine in his time, or Robert Pinsky, and Alan Ginsberg, of course----they are all standard names on indy bookstore shelves.  And of course Famous Seamus rocked the best-seller list with Beowulf.  Most of these people were teachers nevertheless.

So Larimar, it is possible to make a little cash, but don't expect to be Suzanne Collins.  But keep those stars in your eyes no matter what!